Watching Ukraine continue to lose battles?Honestly, at this point I'm just kind of morbidly curious what put you down this path of self-deception in the first place.
Watching Ukraine continue to lose battles?Honestly, at this point I'm just kind of morbidly curious what put you down this path of self-deception in the first place.
Do you know what Key terrain is?
That is what you are claiming the city to be.
Except it has nothing to be a key city about.
It is, or was.It is not a major economic capital.
it is.It is not a rail hub.
so now Ukraine can't use it and Russia might rebuild/repair it one day. Either way, it isn't producing shit for Ukraine right now.The coking plant has basically been destroyed by bombardment from artillery.
Yes, which they just won.Hell, we can even argue that for Russia it IS a key city
So mainstream western media and Ukraine's own media are Russian propaganda now too? LolDo you want Ukraine to lose?
This is an honest question mind you. Because you and those who agree with you appear to have a peculiar emotional investment in not only “debunking” “Western propaganda” whilst taking the Kremlin at face value, but also in leaving Ukraine to its fate.
Do you want a Russian victory?
If so, why?
You haven’t answered my question.So mainstream western media and Ukraine's own media are Russian propaganda now too? Lol
Not a hub. It hasn't ever been a hub. It's a spur that used to connect to Mariupol. It was being planned for a rail hub but the Russian Firm that "won" the bid from Yanukovych ran off with the money when the protests started in 2014.Yes, it's a hub too, hence the Coke plant and all the rails leading in and out of the region.
Russia now owns a territory which is the high ground, which held economic and defensive value, and is the home of a rail hub.
This will now be used by Russia from which to launch further assaults deeper into Ukrainian territory.
This comedy reminds me of COVIDSo mainstream western media and Ukraine's own media are Russian propaganda now too? Lol
And what of the battles that Russia has lost? Have those just been completely memory-holed?Watching Ukraine continue to lose battles?
And what of the battles that Russia has lost? Have those just been completely memory-holed?
what of them? It's war, some battles are won, some are lost.And what of the battles that Russia has lost? Have those just been completely memory-holed?
If you count one side's victories as evidence of them winning, and the other side's victories as irrelevant, you both are clearly extremely biased, and not going to come up with any kind of coherent conclusion about who is winning or losing.what of them? What matters is who is winning the war
what of them? It's war, some battles are won, some are lost.
They lost this one, and it was a big one.
After taking Bahkmut, then the counter offensive being an abysmal failure, and now this, it looks like Russia has the initiative over the last year.
The only thing that made Bakhmut and Avdiivka such big battles is, oh the irony, the huge amount of time, troops and materiel Russia had to spend on taking them.what of them? It's war, some battles are won, some are lost.
They lost this one, and it was a big one.
After taking Bahkmut, then the counter offensive being an abysmal failure, and now this, it looks like Russia has the initiative over the last year.
It had the Coke plant, which was running a third of its capacity from a Soviet bunker.It is, or was.
I have zero evidence saying it was a rail hub.it is.
One day years from now.so now Ukraine can't use it and Russia might rebuild/repair it one day. Either way, it isn't producing shit for Ukraine right now.
And for Russia that may be a huge deal.Yes, which they just won.
It is home of a major coking plant. That's economic damage to Ukraine and more resources for Russia.
It's a rail hub, that's more logistics advantage for russia
It's a defensive position that protects Donetsk. That's another plus for Russia.
It's a high ground. Another plus for Russia.
So Russia destroying all that stuff and holding on to it: bad for Ukraine.It was the home of a major coke plant.
It was a rail hub.
if russia takes the time to clear out the mines, the traps, and then re-fortify it after having destroyed all of the fortifications.
That is... only a plus when trying to protect the city itself. It doesn't have any impact on the war as a whole.
So Russia destroying all that stuff and holding on to it: bad for Ukraine.
Do you want Ukraine to lose?
This is an honest question mind you. Because you and those who agree with you appear to have a peculiar emotional investment in not only “debunking” “Western propaganda” whilst taking the Kremlin at face value, but also in leaving Ukraine to its fate.
Do you want a Russian victory?
If so, why?
The only thing that made Bakhmut and Avdiivka such big battles is, oh the irony, the huge amount of time, troops and materiel Russia had to spend on taking them.
A good modern army would have blazed over them without much fuss about it.
Even friggin Nazis, with mostly horse based logistics, no drones, and crappy WW2 era vehicles went through half of modern day Ukraine in just few months, and despite such mad successes at the time they didn't win the war in the end.
Ukraine has quite a bunch of 30k to 60k towns/cities to lose before it's pushed out of the Donetsk oblast alone, and it's an open question whether Russia will be able to do that if this is the kind of time and cost they have to pay for such "victories".
And that's without getting into what would be Ukraine's last stand in the Donetsk oblast, the old Sloviansk-Kramatorsk line of the 2014 conflict fame, which Ukraine lost, retaken and fortified then, both of those being 100k+ cities. If Avdiivka and Bakhmut were hard to take, those will be harder.
You know, for someone who has said they aren't a Russian simp, you sure manage to come off as one.Watching Ukraine continue to lose battles?