Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Abhorsen]

@mrttao you're getting more and more confusing every day amigo. You keep flipping between Nazi and Soviet communism with a dash of good old White Man's Burden and Isolationism tossed in. WTF!? Are you on the spectrum mijo?

@AmosTrask, Civility Rule 2e says don't accuse others of being extremists (including being a nazi/communist) without hard evidence. This goes for all threads, not just this one. Simply because we have a number of reports right now, I'm going to let this slide with just a mod warning here. But the next time either of you two accuse another of being totalitarian or similar, have the proof (and make it good proof) in that post. And no, just supporting modern Russia/modern Ukraine does not make one a communist or a fascist, and isn't sufficient evidence nor even close to that level.

Yes, this is a repost of a similar such threat from another thread, you've just done this twice.

On a side note for everyone in thread, please stay on topic: This is the Russia/Ukraine war and politics thread. If you want a more wide ranging conversation, please take it to the Donbass thread. Talking about the US states is entirely off topic. Further posts like that will result in lengthy thread bans, this is everyone on the threads final warning.

 

[Zachowon]

And this is something that we all in the military, regardless of politics agree on.
Russia will not stop

 

[Bacle]

@AmosTrask, Civility Rule 2e says don't accuse others of being extremists (including being a nazi/communist) without hard evidence. This goes for all threads, not just this one. Simply because we have a number of reports right now, I'm going to let this slide with just a mod warning here. But the next time either of you two accuse another of being totalitarian or similar, have the proof (and make it good proof) in that post. And no, just supporting modern Russia/modern Ukraine does not make one a communist or a fascist, and isn't sufficient evidence nor even close to that level.

Yes, this is a repost of a similar such threat from another thread, you've just done this twice.

On a side note for everyone in thread, please stay on topic: This is the Russia/Ukraine war and politics thread. If you want a more wide ranging conversation, please take it to the Donbass thread. Talking about the US states is entirely off topic. Further posts like that will result in lengthy thread bans, this is everyone on the threads final warning.

Huh, really funny you put this up when you liked the posted that brought the 'state' discussion to this thread, because you like the gatcha mrttao tried on me about 'nuking red states'.

And the words/actions of politicians in Russia wanting to do to Alaska what they've done to Ukraine is very relevant to the political portion of this conflict, because it shows Ukraine has no reason to trust any deal with Moscow.

If Moscow is willing to try to take back Alaska and stir people up domestically about it, what makes you think they won't try for Kyiv in a Round Two 4-5 years from now?

 

[Grimalkin]

Huh, really funny you put this up when you liked the posted that brought the 'state' discussion to this thread, because you like the gatcha mrttao tried on me about 'nuking red states'.

And the words/actions of politicians in Russia wanting to do to Alaska what they've done to Ukraine is very relevant to the political portion of this conflict, because it shows Ukraine has no reason to trust any deal with Moscow.

If Moscow is willing to try to take back Alaska and stir people up domestically about it, what makes you think they won't try for Kyiv in a Round Two 4-5 years from now?

Well because @mrttao tends to be right more often than you are...

And because the notion that anyone wants fucking Alaska of all places is the most retarded thing I've heard for the last two decades...

 

[Bacle]

Well because @mrttao tends to be right more often than you are...

And because the notion that anyone wants fucking Alaska of all places is the most retarded thing I've heard for the last two decades...

Russians feel they got cheated, because of the oil, gas, and gold found in Alaska after they had given it up.

And this is something that has been popping up more and more recently.

Many in Russia seem to feel it's claim to Alaska is as strong as it's claim to Crimea, and that it was only ever 'leased' to the US, because they feel the US public might be weak enough to let them do it rather than go to war to stop it and that they wish Russia had it back now that they know what's there besides furs and fish.

It won't happen soon, but the seed is being planted for opening up a front across the Bering Straight.

 

[LordsFire]

Well because @mrttao tends to be right more often than you are...

And because the notion that anyone wants fucking Alaska of all places is the most retarded thing I've heard for the last two decades...

Alaska is incredibly resource rich.

Why wouldn't the Russians want it? It's not like they're afraid of trying to set up heavy industry in arctic wastes, even if they usually need outside help to do so...

 

[Abhorsen]

Alaska is incredibly resource rich.

Why wouldn't the Russians want it? It's not like they're afraid of trying to set up heavy industry in arctic wastes, even if they usually need outside help to do so...

I think they want it, but sorta in the same way that China wants Siberia, or the US wants Panama. Occasionally you'll have a politician say they want it back, but there's no real broad desire for it, nor willingness to grab it.

Russia just exposed to the world that they haven't had a military able to go to war with NATO for a while. Then we traded the Ukraine male population for the Russian Male population, and now they are basically out of troops for a generation.

 

[Zachowon]

I think they want it, but sorta in the same way that China wants Siberia, or the US wants Panama. Occasionally you'll have a politician say they want it back, but there's no real broad desire for it, nor willingness to grab it.

Russia just exposed to the world that they haven't had a military able to go to war with NATO for a while. Then we traded the Ukraine male population for the Russian Male population, and now they are basically out of troops for a generation.

They still have millions they can pull from.
So if they think they can take Alaska I want them to try.

 

[AmosTrask]

They still have millions they can pull from.
So if they think they can take Alaska I want them to try.

So do I. It will force Beijing to act overtly, opening them to retaliation. Killing Russia and China for another 100 years is a net benefit.

 

[Rocinante]

They still have millions they can pull from.
So if they think they can take Alaska I want them to try.

Yes we all know you want to be important.

Now those of us living in reality see that Russia has spent a lot of time and resources fucking around in a 3rd world corrupt shithole and haven't won yet, (though they probably will,) and has NO CHANCE whatsoever of taking Alaska. They aren't stupid enough to try, and would get utterly demolished if they did.

Though I'm not surprised that those of you with your faces 6 inches deep up propagandists assholes 24/7 for the last couple years believe this is a real threat, because you've become disconnected with reality. You'll simultaneously believe that a 3rd world shithole is going to topple Russia any day now, while also believing that Russia trying to take Alaska is a real threat. 🤣

 

[Poe]

Yes we all know you want to be important.

Now those of us living in reality see that Russia has spent a lot of time and resources fucking around in a 3rd world corrupt shithole and haven't won yet, (though they probably will,) and has NO CHANCE whatsoever of taking Alaska. They aren't stupid enough to try, and would get utterly demolished if they did.

Though I'm not surprised that those of you with your faces 6 inches deep up propagandists assholes 24/7 for the last couple years believe this is a real threat, because you've become disconnected with reality. You'll simultaneously believe that a 3rd world shithole is going to topple Russia any day now, while also believing that Russia trying to take Alaska is a real threat. 🤣

Think it was pretty clear he means he wants them to because it would be a hilarious stomp

 

[Bacle]

Heh, looks like the new leadership in Argentina is not going to be a BRIC/Russia simp, and meeting with Zelenshy this early in his admin is a good look for Milie.

 

[DarthOne]

Heh, looks like the new leadership in Argentina is not going to be a BRIC/Russia simp, and meeting with Zelenshy this early in his admin is a good look for Milie.

What can Argentina actually offer Ukraine?

Serious question, I honestly don’t know.

 

[Bacle]

What can Argentina actually offer Ukraine?

Serious question, I honestly don’t know.

Argentina was set to become part of BRICS under the former socialist leadership.

Milie has said that's not happening anymore, so that's definitely good for Ukraine (Argentina went from possibly friendly to enemy of Russia almost overnight due to Milie).

Also, Argentina does have a decent ag sector, so they could help Ukraine with getting new tractors and other civie gear for Ukrainian farmers, and this also mean Argentina will likely join the sanctions regime against Russia.

Milie also trolled Orban by seating him within arms length of Zelensky, who got a chance to chew Orban out directly with no one able to get in the way.

 

[Buba]

I find the idea of Russia having any actionable designs on Alaska baffling. And silly.

All Argentina can give is a shoulder to cry on.

 

[Cherico]

I find the idea of Russia having any actionable designs on Alaska baffling. And silly.

All Argentina can give is a shoulder to cry on.

Russia sold Alaska more than a hundred years ago.

Sold not leased, not rented, sold, and while Alaska has resources it was actually a good move at the time. They understood back then that Russia simply did not have the logistics or resources to hold Alasaka against the British empire and they were constantly in conflict with said empire.

It was thus a military liability, it was land held only because it was yet more frozen wasteland and at the barest edge of their logistical capabilities a war to keep such with the notable suck that was the russian navy would have just been blood and treasure for nothing.

In selling it they gained much needed funds needed to modernize the already utterly massive empire they had, got rid of a liability and prevented Russia from getting yet another unneded ally. If the Soviets hadn't had a perverse need to fuck with everyone it would have helped maintain a lasting peace with the US and Russia.

As is communism was a horrible idea and the regime took what was formerally a pretty good relationship and ruined it just like they ruined so many other things about the country.

 

[ATP]

Argentina was set to become part of BRICS under the former socialist leadership.

Milie has said that's not happening anymore, so that's definitely good for Ukraine (Argentina went from possibly friendly to enemy of Russia almost overnight due to Milie).

Also, Argentina does have a decent ag sector, so they could help Ukraine with getting new tractors and other civie gear for Ukrainian farmers, and this also mean Argentina will likely join the sanctions regime against Russia.

Milie also trolled Orban by seating him within arms length of Zelensky, who got a chance to chew Orban out directly with no one able to get in the way.

Well,they could deliver tractors for ukrainian oligarchs.
And all Orban need is simply ask about hungarian minority rights on Ukraine.

 

[LordsFire]

Yes we all know you want to be important.

Now those of us living in reality see that Russia has spent a lot of time and resources fucking around in a 3rd world corrupt shithole and haven't won yet, (though they probably will,) and has NO CHANCE whatsoever of taking Alaska. They aren't stupid enough to try, and would get utterly demolished if they did.

Though I'm not surprised that those of you with your faces 6 inches deep up propagandists assholes 24/7 for the last couple years believe this is a real threat, because you've become disconnected with reality. You'll simultaneously believe that a 3rd world shithole is going to topple Russia any day now, while also believing that Russia trying to take Alaska is a real threat. 🤣

Or, you know, we're not assuming the other person's argument, and know that Russia can want Alaska, even if they have absolutely no feasible ability to actually take Alaska?

 

[AmosTrask]

Russia sold Alaska more than a hundred years ago.

Sold not leased, not rented, sold, and while Alaska has resources it was actually a good move at the time. They understood back then that Russia simply did not have the logistics or resources to hold Alasaka against the British empire and they were constantly in conflict with said empire.

It was thus a military liability, it was land held only because it was yet more frozen wasteland and at the barest edge of their logistical capabilities a war to keep such with the notable suck that was the russian navy would have just been blood and treasure for nothing.

In selling it they gained much needed funds needed to modernize the already utterly massive empire they had, got rid of a liability and prevented Russia from getting yet another unneded ally. If the Soviets hadn't had a perverse need to fuck with everyone it would have helped maintain a lasting peace with the US and Russia.

As is communism was a horrible idea and the regime took what was formerally a pretty good relationship and ruined it just like they ruined so many other things about the country.

Alaska was a 5 year round trip for the Russian Empire's outdated steam ships at the time they sold it off. Their Alaskan trade company had been operating at a steep loss for decades since the European fur trade market collapsed.

 

[Buba]

Alaska was a 5 year round trip for the Russian Empire's outdated steam ships at the time they sold it off.

Sounds like an urban legend or a case of "stupidity is strong in this one". Please check your sources.
Alaska - EOT for me