Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

Poe said:
According to whom exactly? Because according to actual military analysts studying this war, western ones at that, Russia is winning and will win big if the US doesn't get back to funding the war effort. Your talking points are a year stale at this point, hopefully whatever think tank devises them will send out new ones soon.
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I've posted several times in this thread alone about Michael Kofman (Ukraine War Analyst, also hosts a podcast called the Russian Contingency) and even understanding war (a very pro-western org,) scroll back or google it. Its also literally a mainstream talking point so idk what to tell you bro it's time to update your 2022 talking points because things have changed, especially with the halting of US aid.
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www.spiegel.de

U.S. Military Analyst: "Russia Doesn't Have a Good Strategy for Winning the War"

In an interview, American military analyst Michael Kofman says he believes Ukrainian troops have a realistic chance of a breakthrough in their counteroffensive, assuming they don't run out of ammunition.
www.spiegel.de www.spiegel.de
This is an interview with this specific analyst from 5 months ago. Do you see him saying Russia is winning?
 
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Russia seized a key eastern city, Avdiivka.
Ukraine cited running out of munitions for the loss. Requests more support.
MSM insists this was a pyrric win for Russia and Ukraine is still winning.
 


Interesting analysis on the use of decoys. At the end of the day war is won by logistics and money.

Russia has been scaling down their super expensive missiles to replace them with ramped up drones that cost a "mere" 20k to 50k$ a piece.
Russia initially had no drones. but they bought drone designs from Iran and are building them in ever growing numbers themselves.

Shooting down a russian drone costs ukraine almost twice as much as it cost russia to make it. While letting it hit and blow up a decoy costs a fraction of the cost.

Ukraine is fielding massive amount of decoys to soak up those drones.
An american HIMAR costs 5 million dollars. A decoy of costs 1000$. and russia claims to have blown up more HIMARs than USA even sent to Ukraine... because they keep on blowing up their decoys.

Interestingly both russia and ukraine has volunteer civilians building and contributing very small recon drones.
 
mrttao said:
1. Strategic value has nothing to do with population. it has to do with location.
2. I didn't say it was a key city. MSM does. the very same MSM that is insisting that this was a pyrrhic victory for russia are the ones who are calling it a key city.
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So let's assume the MSM are fucking idiots in every possible way: why would they be correct in one of those and wrong in the other?
 
Vyor said:
So let's assume the MSM are fucking idiots in every possible way: why would they be correct in one of those and wrong in the other?
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We don't need to 'assume' that, it's already proven in most cases. Not quite 'every possible way,' but it is genuinely hard to tell the difference between 'trying to get the wrong answer on purpose' and what the media usually does.
 
Vyor said:
So let's assume the MSM are fucking idiots in every possible way: why would they be correct in one of those and wrong in the other?
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I posted a video article and a summary of what it says.
I did not indicate what is true and what is false. That is up to each person to decide.

Also, don't underestimate the greatest enemy of mankind. Underestimating them literally killed democracy and western civilization.
While MSM occasionally do something very stupid they should not be underestimated.
They are evil propagandists with agendas.
Stop assuming that their intentional lies are acts of stupidity.

Anyways. If you want me to personally give me opinion on which parts of this specific report are true and which are false...
Since MSM's agenda is very clear. Them being unable to figure out a way to massage that bit and thus admitting something that undermines this agenda (the city was a key city) makes it more likely to be true.

Nothing is ever certain though.
It is possible that MSM just demonstrated an act of stupidity and that it was never a key strategic position.
 
mrttao said:


Russia seized a key eastern city, Avdiivka.
Ukraine cited running out of munitions for the loss. Requests more support.
MSM insists this was a pyrric win for Russia and Ukraine is still winning.
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It's a suburb they used to bleed Russia. It has no strategic or tactical significance geographically. Declaring it's significance is Russian propaganda aimed at its own population. If you are so insistent on this bullshit being the one time RT is correct I have some land on the Danube Delta to sell you. You'll love it. (Extreme sarcasm equivalent to the American expression "I have a bridge to sell you.)

Hyperbole cabrón look it up
 
AmosTrask said:
It's a suburb they used to bleed Russia. It has no strategic or tactical significance geographically. Declaring it's significance is Russian propaganda aimed at its own population. If you are so insistent on this bullshit being the one time RT is correct I have some land on the Danube Delta to sell you. You'll love it. (Extreme sarcasm equivalent to the American expression "I have a bridge to sell you.)

Hyperbole cabrón look it up
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Note: american MSM is calling it a "key city".

In reality there is no such thing as a "key city" and there never was. Many people are obsessed with the idea of a "decisive battle", winning which means you are almost assured to win the war.

The concept is laughable. There have been a million "decisive battles" that have lead into the winner of that battle losing the wider war. There is no single front, no single battle, that can break an entire army or nation. Even capital cities are expendable, in the end. After all, Rome was taken over repeatedly and yet... the Roman Empire kept fighting.

Is the city a great spot for a defensive hold? Absolutely. Does it grant Russia anything by taking it? Not really. It's a very asymmetrical exchange, as all defensive wars have. In order to win an invasive war you need to take every city, to win a defensive one you just need to stop the opponents from taking one. Of course, that wouldn't be much of a victory, but it is a victory (which is why China to this day claims that Taiwan is chinese land, saving face from their failure to capture it).
 
Zachowon said:
Due remember, Aviidka has been a front line city for almost ten years before it fell.
It has been fighting as long as then numerous times
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Exactly. That complex held back the Russian funded rebels since 2014. It took two years of open war for Russia to take that fortification complex and the coking industrial complex(which has suffered damage as widespread as Chernobyl). Ten years, 10,000 casualties(of actual Russian soldiers in the last two years), hundreds of armored vehicles, and tens of thousands of artillery shells, and in the last two months alone two hundred gliding bombs and cruise missiles and hundreds of Shahed. For a town that is only important for the rail spur that connects its coke to the Mariupol steel mill. A mill that no longer exists.

The Russians will need to demolish everything and invest billions to rebuild with even Soviet tech. The modern machinery was evacuated with the workers. What's left is sabotaged.
 
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mrttao said:
1. Strategic value has nothing to do with population. it has to do with location.

2. I didn't say it was a key city. MSM does.
The very same MSM that is insisting that this was a pyrrhic victory for russia are the ones who are calling it a key city.
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Look man, don't you understand how this works? Ukraine lost, so its not an important city, the MSM just needs to catch up and update their narrative. If Ukraine had won, then it would still be an important city.

But no, Russia won this battle, so it's not an important city, and is actually a sign of how bad Russia is losing. Just wait, a couple more victories like this and Russia will lose the war.

Nevermind Avdiivka had prevented Russia from using Donetsk and its resources as a communications hub, and prevented Russian breakthroughs in other areas. Nope, not strategically important at all.

The MSM just needs to update their narrative. The NPCs got got software patch before the MSM.

These people shut their brains off two years ago dude. You might as well be talking to propaganda bots at this point.

Just remember, a few more wins like this and Russia will lose the war!
 
Rocinante said:
Look man, don't you understand how this works? Ukraine lost, so its not an important city, the MSM just needs to catch up and update their narrative. If Ukraine had won, then it would still be an important city.

But no, Russia won this battle, so it's not an important city, and is actually a sign of how bad Russia is losing. Just wait, a couple more victories like this and Russia will lose the war.

Nevermind Avdiivka had prevented Russia from using Donetsk and its resources as a communications hub, and prevented Russian breakthroughs in other areas. Nope, not strategically important at all.

The MSM just needs to update their narrative. The NPCs got got software patch before the MSM.

These people shut their brains off two years ago dude. You might as well be talking to propaganda bots at this point.

Just remember, a few more wins like this and Russia will lose the war!
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Yeah, king Pyrrhus was a great leader famous for winning his battles, and a minefield ridden ruin that took years of artillery combat makes for a great communications hub.
Talk to me more about people shutting their brains off and propaganda bots please.
 
Rocinante said:
Look man, don't you understand how this works? Ukraine lost, so its not an important city, the MSM just needs to catch up and update their narrative. If Ukraine had won, then it would still be an important city.

But no, Russia won this battle, so it's not an important city, and is actually a sign of how bad Russia is losing. Just wait, a couple more victories like this and Russia will lose the war.

Nevermind Avdiivka had prevented Russia from using Donetsk and its resources as a communications hub, and prevented Russian breakthroughs in other areas. Nope, not strategically important at all.

The MSM just needs to update their narrative. The NPCs got got software patch before the MSM.

These people shut their brains off two years ago dude. You might as well be talking to propaganda bots at this point.

Just remember, a few more wins like this and Russia will lose the war!
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Russia lost so hard, that they are launching attacks across 7 different axes.

Another trans-victory for Ukraine!
 
Marduk said:
Simp harder for your Muscovite idols, dream that they think you anything more than an unpatriotic useful idiot on the other side, and a point in case for why they don't have a functioning democracy or political freedoms, including freedom of speech - if they did, they would have people equivalent to you too.
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Listen, I am laughing at YOU. And people like you. You're pathetically brainwashed.

I've never been pro Russia, but I live in the real world, and I'm watching Russia win important territories, and then you guys just spin it to claim how unimportant it really is.

It's hilarious, if a bit sad because a lot of people need to die for this.

I've been listening to you brainwashed retards go on about how much ass Ukraine is kicking for years now, and meanwhile i keep seeing counter offensives fail and them losing terrirory. I told you years ago Ukraine would still be fighting this war in a few years because they aren't winning, And here we are. They just lost a key city that up until this week, everyone agreed was an important city.

So now you pathetic retards need to spin that around and make it somehow into a win for Ukraine.

Just like you'll do next time Russia wins.

And this will continue until a peace deal is signed and Russia probably walks with Donbass at the least.
 
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