mrttao
Well-known member
Russian imperial ambitions are a joke.
Russia is too mired in corruption to effectively wage war.
Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
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Russia is too mired in corruption to effectively wage war.
A 'joke' that is killing a lot of Ukrainians and leading to the kidnapping of thousands of Ukrainian kids.
Russia can be corrupt and ineffective and still cause a lot of misery for people on their borders.
mrttao
Well-known member
1. Look at some historical figures for war. Thousands?
Vietnam lost 4 million people during vietnam war
Thousands dead is just a minor skirmish.
2. Yes, people are dying. and that is sad.
But that doesn't mean that russia has any chance of becoming an empire.
Because your argument was not "russia is killing some people, which is bad. we should stop them because we are world police".
Rather that "russia is will become a imperial world power if we don't stop it now"
Why cannot it not be both arguments at once?
Stopping Russian imperial ambitions would directly help reduce the number of Ukrainians they kill in this invasion and hasten the withdrawal of Russian troops from the territories they've attempted to occupy.
mrttao
Well-known member
You can posit both. But the one I was scoffing it was not the "we should save those ukranians because we are world police". rather I was scoffing at the premise that Russia has a chance at becoming an empire and that the cold war never ended.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
It's very easy for an incompetently run corrupt nation with an extremely mediocre military to become a world power, if they are allowed to swallow up smaller nations one by one with no organized resistance from other nations who want to stop that.
That has to be some fucking troll logic.
"Don't interfere with the poorly run wannabe empire's attempt to grow bigger and stronger, it's not like a poorly run wannabe empire has a chance of succeeding, so plz dude, don't get in its way, just let it keep trying on easy mode".
mrttao
Well-known member
It is YOUR insane troll logic, not mine. We call this a strawman.
I didn't say that nobody should get in their way. Plenty of neighbors that should (and have) ally up against it. What I said:
1. there is no chance of their succeeding.
Regardless of whether they had a chance before the war started (which is iffy considering their dire internal situation).
Right now in 2023 they definitely don't anymore, as Ukraine alone is enough to trounce them. And all their neighbors formed an alliance against them.
2. the notion they are still an active actual rival to a superpower is laughable.
3. we (the country literally on the other side of the globe) don't need any further involvement. If we ever needed to. The countries actually at risk (europe) can sort this one out.
mrttao
Well-known member
Are you perhaps confusing genocidal with incompetent?
I hate to break it to you but Stalin and Hitler were competent people.
They were not nice people, but they were not incompetent.
Attrition is a thing too.
wait... "with no organized resistance from other nations"... so...
you are flat out excluding cases of their targets allying against their aggression?
even thought literally my entire point was that Russia's neighbors allied against it right now because they know they are next?
Thus USA is not required and this is not cold war 2.0.
Just a would be imperialist finding out their neighbors don't want to get conqured.
Give them a decade if strict non-interference or two and they will succeed at least with Ukraine, even if they have to set up another temporary peace for the heat to disappear and their army to get properly rebuilt.
It's unrealistic and unlikely to happen due to how stupid it would be for them to be given such a favor, but that only points out to the ridiculousness of your isolationist ideas that would advocate it happening.
If they got unreasonable favors for insane reasons like non-interference, that's in effect almost as good, and in some ways better than being a superpower on own merit.
Who cares. Needs, opportunities, details. Tell that to Russians involving themselves with Cuba or Venezuela, and CCP involving themselves literally anywhere that will take their money, they sure as hell don't let their isolationists dumb down their geopolitical schemes for the hell of it.
I for one don't care for isolationist self-affirming dogma pretending non-interference is some kind of good in and of itself, following it, or whether others follow it, it's just ridiculous and pointless.
Last but not least, you still get to be involved by having to defend said allies from Russian retaliation for their involvement, so it's just arguing about technicalities for no good reason.
Tucker will say whichever topic will result in more views and money for his boss. The entire cast has been recorded in multiple instances saying one thing in conversation amongst themselves. Then going on air a few minutes later with Oscar worthy false sincerity contradicting their earlier conversation.
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Sure, sure, that is why his show is hemorrhaging advertisers on several occasions.
Guy is far more based and red pilled than the tradcuck media in general.
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Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Actually both Stalin and Hitler were militarily incompetent.
Stalin provided massive amounts of war material to his soon to be main enemy after that very same enemy explicitly stated that all slavs must be exterminated as subhumans and all communists destroyed.
Both he and Hitler micromanaged and purged the military of some of its most competent generals to put their favorite bootlickers and hangers on in positions of power, why don't you check out the biographies of Zhukov and Rokosovski, and how Stalin purged his army just before the invasion of the USSR started.An invasion for which he was warned by his intelligence services.
Also, his early attempts to micromanage the military and stuff like the "no step back" decree decreased their war efficiency.
Hitler was an even bigger disaster.
As to the current conflict, well, the west goaded the Russians into it and ther is plain to see.
They sabotaged the Minsk process and they did regime change in Ukraine.
As to Ukraine, it did not exist as anything prior to the end of WWI and it is made up of land thst is either historically Russian, part of the old Kievan Rus, not that there is much distinction, and that the Russians bled for and controlled for hundreds of years.
The Donbass itself has been culturally and ethnically Russian as well as anti-Euromaidan and Kiev's anti-Russian actions led to this whole thing starting.
As to the hypocritical warpiggy chickenhawk Pole you are arguing with, well, he has his own axe to grind with the Russians(I wonder how big of a hutor his grandpa had) and his own expansionist fantasies to salivate over, but since he and his fellows can't go against Russia directly they desperately need to drag anyone into this on the anti-Russia side.
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Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
Which reminds me, @Marduk when will you be supporting your side in a more active manner?
You know, from a ditch/trench somewhere close to Donbass instead from your couch shitposting and reeing st people who do not want to support the most corrupt country in Yurup(Yup, Ukraine pre war was more corrupt than Russia), and calling everyone who disagrees with you a communist or a paid Putin shill?
Also, here is a little present for you:
Ah, yes, the old misunderstood dominos theory fallacy.
You do realize that life is not a game of <insert your favorite rts here> and thet there is a thing called imperial overstretch, and that because manufacturing and complex logistic processes are involved in weather creation invasions for territorial expansion become exceedingly difficult because you are smashing the shit you'd theoretically want to capture, right?
You know, from a ditch/trench somewhere close to Donbass instead from your couch shitposting and reeing st people who do not want to support the most corrupt country in Yurup(Yup, Ukraine pre war was more corrupt than Russia), and calling everyone who disagrees with you a communist or a paid Putin shill?
Also, here is a little present for you:
Ah, yes, the old misunderstood dominos theory fallacy.
You do realize that life is not a game of <insert your favorite rts here> and thet there is a thing called imperial overstretch, and that because manufacturing and complex logistic processes are involved in weather creation invasions for territorial expansion become exceedingly difficult because you are smashing the shit you'd theoretically want to capture, right?
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King Arts
Well-known member
Dude not cool. People can have their political opinions without being insulted. Also he is polish just because he doesn’t want to join a foreign army does not make him a coward. The whole foreign legion thing is a scam to get cannon fodder why have your own people die when foreigners can instead. But Poland is not directly at war and Polish citizens should not be goaded into joining other armies.Which reminds me, @Marduk when will you be supporting your side in a more active manner?
You know, from a ditch/trench somewhere close to Donbass instead from your couch shitposting and reeing st people who do not want to support the most corrupt country in Yurup(Yup, Ukraine pre war was more corrupt than Russia), and calling everyone who disagrees with you a communist or a paid Putin shill?
Also, here is a little present for you:
Agent23
Ни шагу назад!
I am a big fan of the concept of "skin in the game." Marduk and his buddies have been cheering Ukraine on, demanding western/EU/NATO support for it and attacking and insulting everyone who opposes them for whatever reason.
Well, our bellicose Pole has zero skin in the game at present, he and his ilk will not suffer any direct damage whatever direction this conflict takes.
If you advocate for military action/an alliance with whoever/backing one side in a war then you sure as hell should lift your fat ass of the couch and go fight for what you preach, or shut the fuck up.
Buba
A total creep
I know people who hate the idea of supporting Ukraine - as pointed out by my neighbour @ATP - erecting new statues to Bandera and his butchers is not a friend winning move in Poland.
For quite a few it is like choosing between gonorhea and syphillis - i.e. backing those nice cuddly Ukrainians or supporting those fluffy Russian carebears ...
For quite a few it is like choosing between gonorhea and syphillis - i.e. backing those nice cuddly Ukrainians or supporting those fluffy Russian carebears ...
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