Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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From their perspective, they could say the same about how the USA has kept troops in Europe despite, you know, the Cold War ending and the arguable expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe at the hands of US-backed manipulations. Hell, it's not even really a secret that the USA had a hand in Zelenski getting into power.
From their perspective they keep troops in Belarus and few other countries like Syria or Tajikistan, no one did anything about that, and so it's none of their bloody business which countries willingly invite US troops or join NATO either. And if the NATO offer is more popular than theirs... Well, there's no affirmative action in the global alliance market.

Oh, wait, except it's extremely inconvenient if the countries they planned to invade have a case of "NATO expansion", that's obviously ruinous to their plans and so they hate it. Even if NATO countries merely border the countries they are invading, that's also a problem, because then they send NATO equipment to help resist the invasion.

Also, no one said that Russia will be allowed to go full empire on central Europe as long as they file off the obvious commie symbolism.
 
From their perspective, they could say the same about how the USA has kept troops in Europe despite, you know, the Cold War ending and the arguable expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe at the hands of US-backed manipulations. Hell, it's not even really a secret that the USA had a hand in Zelenski getting into power.

EDIT:



Sound familiar? Beyond the 1984 comparisons of course...


Replace starvation with increased wage-slavery, the depreciation of the dollar (which is useless petro-currency anyway, ironically enough), and the WEF's 'you will own nothing and be happy' and general money laundering while the chosen elite's wealth swells evermore.

Iraq%2Bgold_2.jpg

You forget NATO moved east because the former subjects of Russia wanted protection from Russian aggression; the Baltic's and Poland know very fucking well what it is like to have Moscow rule you, and they wanted to make sure they were never under Moscow's thumb again.

Russia is the aggressor here, and the Russia version of feeling 'secure' is having complete control over anything the Russian Empire or USSR ever laid claim to, which runs right into the issue that much of the Russian Imperial/Soviet periphery hates Moscow's guts now.

But none of this matters to you, because you are part of the contrarian Right, who just automatically go against anything the Left says or does, without critically thinking beyond 'Left support=bad'.

And frankly the WEF and co don't mean a fucking thing when it comes to Ukraine, because it's not the WEF who are launching cruise missile strikes on Kyiv or Odessa, it's Russia.

Unlike you and others, I can separate our domestic woes from Ukraine's aid and weapons needs, and separate my disdain for DC and Biden from the reality that Ukraine needs weapons to defend themselves and reclaim their territory from the occupying Russian forces.

Now in other news, Biden made a surprise visit to Kyiv this morning.




 
From their perspective they keep troops in Belarus and few other countries, no one did anything about that, and so it's none of their bloody business which countries willingly invite US troops or join NATO.
Oh, wait, except it's extremely inconvenient if the countries they planned to invade have a case of "NATO expansion", that's obviously ruinous to their plans and so they hate it. Even if NATO countries merely border the countries they are invading, that's also a problem, because then they send NATO equipment to help resist the invasion.

Also, no one said that Russia will be allowed to go full empire on central Europe as long as they file off the obvious commie symbolism.
The problem is the often MASSIVE air quotes that can be (but not always) found around the "willingly allow" part when it comes to allowing the US to set up troops in their country if you look past the surface.

You can just as easily flip your entire second and third sentences around because it's just as fitting for what NATO and its puppet masters do as they push their ideological bullshit in their wake. Once NATO sets up shop it becomes exponentially harder for opposition to said ideologies to resist. Though that resistance don't get anywhere near enough support for NATO to need to put them down with weapons. But then why would they? 'Control the Media, Control the Mind' and all that.

Even if one is to accept the claim that this is all just Russia looking for an excuse to go the Soviet Union with less communism, it doesn't excuse those who use created and use NATO's mission creep (not to mention the EU) to create a version of the Austria-Hungry that's just as godless and destructive as the actual Soviet Union. If not worse in its own unique ways.

It's all a bunch of power plays and hypocrisy from the West and the East. With everyone going 'it's okay when WE do it!'. The truth of the matter is that this stupidity will just continue to grind down the West (which includes Russia) and allow the WEF and the EU to continue their anti-European crusade by leaving countries destitute and depopulation thanks to war and ideological bullshit that results in fewer people having families and children. Or do you think it's a coincidence that the WEF-adjacent Blackrock has gotten its claws in to help Ukraine rebuild?

@Bacle See above. And I would say that you're just being fooled into yet another money-laundering forever war that does nothing but weakens the West. But that you support because it has the Cold War enemy of Russia and because it's being done in the name of 'liberty' and 'freedom' and 'the rights of small nations'. The same old tricks and half-truths that have been rolled out since WW1. And in the exception of WW2, where largely just that; not that it matters, given that Europe swapped life under the Nazis for life under the Soviet Union. Which was only less genocidal because Stalin died before he could kick off his purges and because there were a lot fewer rich people when compared to the Poles, Slavs, and everyone else Hitler would have slaughtered.
 
The problem is the often MASSIVE air quotes that can be (but not always) found around the "willingly allow" part when it comes to allowing the US to set up troops in their country if you look past the surface.

You can just as easily flip your entire second and third sentences around because it's just as fitting for what NATO and its puppet masters do as they push their ideological bullshit in their wake. Once NATO sets up shop it becomes exponentially harder for opposition to said ideologies to resist. Though that resistance don't get anywhere near enough support for NATO to need to put them down with weapons. But then why would they? 'Control the Media, Control the Mind' and all that.

Even if one is to accept the claim that this is all just Russia looking for an excuse to go the Soviet Union with less communism, it doesn't excuse those who use created and use NATO's mission creep (not to mention the EU) to create a version of the Austria-Hungry that's just as godless and destructive as the actual Soviet Union. If not worse in its own unique ways.

It's all a bunch of power plays and hypocrisy from the West and the East. With everyone going 'it's okay when WE do it!'. The truth of the matter is that this stupidity will just continue to grind down the West (which includes Russia) and allow the WEF and the EU to continue their anti-European crusade by leaving countries destitute and depopulation thanks to war and ideological bullshit that results in fewer people having families and children. Or do you think it's a coincidence that the WEF-adjacent Blackrock has gotten its claws in to help Ukraine rebuild?

@Bacle See above. And I would say that you're just being fooled into yet another money-laundering forever war that does nothing but weakens the West. But that you support because it has the Cold War enemy of Russia and because it's being done in the name of 'liberty' and 'freedom' and 'the rights of small nations'. The same old tricks and half-truths that have been rolled out since WW1. And in the exception of WW2, where largely just that; not that it matters, given that Europe swapped life under the Nazis for life under the Soviet Union. Which was only less genocidal because Stalin died before he could kick off his purges and because there were a lot fewer rich people when compared to the Poles, Slavs, and everyone else Hitler would have slaughtered.
Yes, I know you are looking for any excuse to hate on the West due to the WEF, and do not care how many Ukrainians are killed by Russian imperial ambitions, that much is obvious now.

Edit: In other news:


Navalny is putting together a platform for a post-Putin Russia, including respecting Ukraine's 1991 borders and 'leave Ukraine alone' as part of his platform.
 
Yes, I know you are looking for any excuse to hate on the West due to the WEF, and do not care how many Ukrainians are killed by Russian imperial ambitions, that much is obvious now.

Edit: In other news:


Navalny is putting together a platform for a post-Putin Russia, including respecting Ukraine's 1991 borders and 'leave Ukraine alone' as part of his platform.

Well, if we're going to start with the playground insults, I could say that you don't care how many people get killed or towns leveled, so long as Russia gets a bloody nose.

Oh, and of course, they're talking about Reparations in response to another nation's 'aggression'. Why does all that sound familiar?

War...War never changes.



 
Well, if we're going to start with the playground insults, I could say that you don't care how many people get killed or towns leveled, so long as Russia gets a bloody nose.

Oh, and of course, they're talking about Reparations in response to another nation's 'aggression'. Why does all that sound familiar?

War...War never changes.




Except I do care, because I've been supporting Ukraine getting all the aid possible since the tanks rolled into Chernobyl, and been calling out the GOP for holding up the weapons aid over domestic shit.

I've been supporting Ukraine reclaiming it's territory, and it is on Putin when towns are leveled, because this war was his choice to undertake, no one else's.

And frankly, the reparations are completely legit here; Germany had to pay reparations for WW2, and Russia will be paying reparations for their war of aggression against Ukraine.

Never mind that the children that Russia has been kidnapping to try to deal with their demographic issues will also need to be found and removed from the 'proper Russian homes' they have been abducted to.

Don't like what you consider 'playground level insults', maybe stop acting like a petulant, contrarian schoolboy who just doesn't want to admit he's wrong and been fooled by Russian propaganda efforts.
Meanwhile in the USA, the nation Biden is president of, East Palestine, Ohio is still a mess. And our cities and people crumble.
Yes, and that's sort of fuck up is on Biden's admin; he's the one who 'broke' the potential rail-strike that was caused by rail workers protesting working conditions.

See, that's what I mean about being able to separate Ukraine defensive and reconstruction needs from domestic shitshows; I can laud helping Ukraine while also condemning fuck ups here at home without twisting myself in knots due to having critical thinking beyond 'Left support=bad' when it comes to Ukraine's situation.
 
The problem is the often MASSIVE air quotes that can be (but not always) found around the "willingly allow" part when it comes to allowing the US to set up troops in their country if you look past the surface.
We're not talking Iraq or Saudi Arabia, we're talking Poland... No need for airquotes there.
Go look at *any* semi-decent poll, it has more support than any living politician by a big margin.

You can just as easily flip your entire second and third sentences around because it's just as fitting for what NATO and its puppet masters do as they push their ideological bullshit in their wake. Once NATO sets up shop it becomes exponentially harder for opposition to said ideologies to resist. Though that resistance don't get anywhere near enough support for NATO to need to put them down with weapons. But then why would they? 'Control the Media, Control the Mind' and all that.
WTF does NATO have to do with ideology? Do you perhaps mistake NATO for the EU or other, even more ideological organization? These are different organizations. If NATO is an ideological organization, how the hell are Turkey, Hungary and Germany doing the stuff they are doing?
Even if one is to accept the claim that this is all just Russia looking for an excuse to go the Soviet Union with less communism, it doesn't excuse those who use created and use NATO's mission creep (not to mention the EU) to create a version of the Austria-Hungry that's just as godless and destructive as the actual Soviet Union. If not worse in its own unique ways.
History 101 reminder - Russia was an empire and not exactly a nice one before it turned into Soviet Union. To us in the region it's not such a huge surprise that it would head back into similar direction.

It's all a bunch of power plays and hypocrisy from the West and the East. With everyone going 'it's okay when WE do it!'. The truth of the matter is that this stupidity will just continue to grind down the West (which includes Russia) and allow the WEF and the EU to continue their anti-European crusade by leaving countries destitute and depopulation thanks to war and ideological bullshit that results in fewer people having families and children.
What does the one have to do with the other? The existence of new ideological bullshit from western leftists in no way justifies ignoring the old ideological bullshit coming from the islamists, or chicoms, or the likes of Russia, they are merely exploiting the weaknesses fostered by the former.
For all i care, i'll celebrate if they all burn in atomic fire.
I completely fail to understand what i see as the beginnings of infection with outright hippie-pacifist style useful idiot vision of the world spreading to the right, manifesting in promotion of neutrality if not sympathy towards external enemies just on account of existence of internal ones.
Or do you think it's a coincidence that the WEF-adjacent Blackrock has gotten its claws in to help Ukraine rebuild?
So? The West is supposed to stop doing anything at all as long as Blackrock exists and is allowed to make any business?
What do you propose as an actually serious solution here, other than being demoralized and dogmatically contrarian for the hell of it?
@Bacle See above. And I would say that you're just being fooled into yet another money-laundering forever war that does nothing but weakens the West.
How does bringing ruin upon external enemies of the West weaken the West?
The only problem with that is that it doesn't happen more often.
But that you support because it has the Cold War enemy of Russia and because it's being done in the name of 'liberty' and 'freedom' and 'the rights of small nations'.
Yes, i very much want my "small nation" to have rights, just like other "small nation" of Ukraine.
If you want to become Russian serf, pretty sure their immigration services will welcome you, with a draft card even.
The same old tricks and half-truths that have been rolled out since WW1. And in the exception of WW2, where largely just that; not that it matters, given that Europe swapped life under the Nazis for life under the Soviet Union. Which was only less genocidal because Stalin died before he could kick off his purges and because there were a lot fewer rich people when compared to the Poles, Slavs, and everyone else Hitler would have slaughtered.
Which makes you trying to excuse the revanchist post-Soviet rule of the ex-KGB colonel even more puzzling.
Why aren't you for full decommunization of Russia then?
He's doing nothing more than the mess he and others helped to create before the Soviet Union crashed to rebuild a similar thing under a different, older banner.
Russia was never even interested in making a proper divorce with the communist past, so that it takes naive people like you to imagine it happened.
Fun question: When did WW2 begin, and what answer to that question would you get if you were a student in a Russian public school?
 
On a related note:



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But remember, the whole Nazi Ukrainian thing is just Russian propaganda!

For someone who has found himself on the business end of being called a Nazi and "far right extremist" by western leftists collectively and probably also as an individual, you are awfully eager to believe other very non-neutral parties accusing nationalists groups they don't like of such too.
Are you per chance one of these people?
 
Libertarian Party "Rage Against War" rally in DC at the Lincoln Memorial definitely looked interesting.



Does the Horseshoe Theory apply to the Non-Aggression Principle somehow? :p



Less Russian simp flag waving pictures were taken though. Apparently Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein were all hanging out together, which is nice. Plus luminaries like Jackson Hinkle and Max Blumenthal etc.
 
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Libertarian Party "Rage Against War" rally in DC at the Lincoln Memorial definitely looked interesting.



Does the Horseshoe Theory apply to the Non-Aggression Principle somehow? :p



Less Russian simp flag waving pictures were taken though. Apparently Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein were all hanging out together, which is nice. Plus luminaries like Jackson Hinkle and Max Blumenthal etc.





Yeah, I can understand why he feels that way; the Mises Caucus is the worst thing to ever happen to the Libertarian Party and it's pro-Russia bullshit is going to poison the well against the Libertarian Party for decades to come.
 




Yeah, I can understand why he feels that way; the Mises Caucus is the worst thing to ever happen to the Libertarian Party and it's pro-Russia bullshit is going to poison the well against the Libertarian Party for decades to come.

On a positive note you at least know everyone involved with the event are the Russian's Fifth Column.
 
On a positive note you at least know everyone involved with the event are the Russian's Fifth Column.
I don't think Rand Paul is a fifth column, however I do think he needs to realize that his idealism about libertarian principles does not matter to Russian imperial ambitions.

I think most people there are probably just ideological pacifists whole worship the NAP and believe their ernest/moronic world can make things better.

They do not want to get that their view does not change the ambitions of foreign powers or wash away blood feuds that are centuries, if not millennia old.

Humanity will never be without war, no amount of idealism can change that, and that's the hard lesson AnCaps and the Libertarian party are just unwilling to face up to.
 
Yeah, I can understand why he feels that way; the Mises Caucus is the worst thing to ever happen to the Libertarian Party and it's pro-Russia bullshit is going to poison the well against the Libertarian Party for decades to come.
even if it turns out the Mises Caucus was 100% vatniks it would still have been an improvement over the old LP. this is not me saying that they are. just that the LP has been an absolutely awful party for decades at this point.
 
even if it turns out the Mises Caucus was 100% vatniks it would still have been an improvement over the old LP. this is not me saying that they are. just that the LP has been an absolutely awful party for decades at this point.
...I am not sure whether to agree or disagree with how bad the LP was in the past.

I mean Ron Paul was pretty chill and definitely less corrupt than 90% of DC, however his son is sometimes too naive in his idealism for his own good.

And I will admit I've definitely seen a shift in tone for the LP since Mises took over, and it's not been in a direction that seems favorable to the party or national political scene.

Feels more AnCap-ish and more...like they are chasing clicks/clickbait bullshit in order to 'grow', while remaining tone def to those who don't worship the NAP.
 
Libertarian Party "Rage Against War" rally in DC at the Lincoln Memorial definitely looked interesting.



Does the Horseshoe Theory apply to the Non-Aggression Principle somehow? :p



Less Russian simp flag waving pictures were taken though. Apparently Dennis Kucinich, Ron Paul, Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein were all hanging out together, which is nice. Plus luminaries like Jackson Hinkle and Max Blumenthal etc.

Ok this is unfair. Tell me are the establishment people Ukraine simps for waving Ukrainian flags? Either foreign flags are acceptable or they are not.

I don't think Rand Paul is a fifth column, however I do think he needs to realize that his idealism about libertarian principles does not matter to Russian imperial ambitions.

I think most people there are probably just ideological pacifists whole worship the NAP and believe their ernest/moronic world can make things better.

They do not want to get that their view does not change the ambitions of foreign powers or wash away blood feuds that are centuries, if not millennia old.

Humanity will never be without war, no amount of idealism can change that, and that's the hard lesson AnCaps and the Libertarian party are just unwilling to face up to.
Umm no it seems like your globalist friends are the ones who think war can be stopped since they get so upset over a war in Europe. Libertarians are saying they just don’t care about that region of the world they literally don’t care if Ukraine wins or Russia wins just like they don’t care if Saudi Arabia wins or Yemen wins. They don’t live there and want to decrease foreign dependency and involvement.
 
Umm no it seems like your globalist friends are the ones who think war can be stopped since they get so upset over a war in Europe. Libertarians are saying they just don’t care about that region of the world they literally don’t care if Ukraine wins or Russia wins just like they don’t care if Saudi Arabia wins or Yemen wins. They don’t live there and want to decrease foreign dependency and involvement.
So where are they waving Saudi flags or Yemen flags or Iran flags...
But yet there are the Russian flags. Much not caring right there.
They are either paid shills or useful idiots.

Guess the people with Ukrainian flags are just demonstrating how much they don't care about Ukraine by that logic.

...I am not sure whether to agree or disagree with how bad the LP was in the past.

I mean Ron Paul was pretty chill and definitely less corrupt than 90% of DC, however his son is sometimes too naive in his idealism for his own good.

And I will admit I've definitely seen a shift in tone for the LP since Mises took over, and it's not been in a direction that seems favorable to the party or national political scene.

Feels more AnCap-ish and more...like they are chasing clicks/clickbait bullshit in order to 'grow', while remaining tone def to those who don't worship the NAP.
To me it feels like opportunistic and smart infiltration of anti-western contrarian left and all the foreign lobbies it always worked for into the new opposition, as the anti-western contrarians got sidelined from the left a bit due to the left being in charge of most western countries, so it's kinda awkward for them to undermine their very own rule. They will only go back to that once they lose some elections.
 
Ok this is unfair. Tell me are the establishment people Ukraine simps for waving Ukrainian flags? Either foreign flags are acceptable or they are not.

Neoliberal Globalists or Internationalists waving around Foreign Flags or Pro-Ukraine rallies flying Ukraine flags makes sense actually. Kinda like when pro Israel or Palestinian protests fly around their lameass flags.

Libertarians flying around flags of Arab states the Soviet Union and Russian Federation doesn't as readily communicate libertarian ideals to me as I understand them. You can be antiwar or isolationist or advocate the (lol) Non Aggression Principle or apparently believe Russian threats about Nuclear War over Ukraine so we must have them dictate our foreign policy without idolatry of foreign authoritarians.
 
...I am not sure whether to agree or disagree with how bad the LP was in the past.

I mean Ron Paul was pretty chill and definitely less corrupt than 90% of DC, however his son is sometimes too naive in his idealism for his own good.

And I will admit I've definitely seen a shift in tone for the LP since Mises took over, and it's not been in a direction that seems favorable to the party or national political scene.

Feels more AnCap-ish and more...like they are chasing clicks/clickbait bullshit in order to 'grow', while remaining tone def to those who don't worship the NAP.
it was. at least the Mises caucus has a real platform. Old LP was taking their pants of on stage during the debates because they were oppression or some shit. and the debates were if the state should be allowed to intervene if someone was selling heroine to a grade schooler. the guy who said they should was booed. LP has always been a shit show. LP will continue to be a shit show even if we wish the hypothetical ideals they follow should flourish.
 
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