Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Agent23]

Ah so you do care about what happens in other countries after all, even ones on different continents and a thousand of kilometers away. So what was that with whining about why Ukraine's neighbors interfering with Ukraine getting invaded by their other neighbor, US interventionism, and so on?

When my personal or national interests are impacted and when money needs to be spent.

The USA and the French with the help of NAFO broke Libya and Siria, and the initial bad money we threw st it is being joined by more good money.

The situation is the same in Ukraine.

The EU told the Ukrainians they can join, the population bought it and they were dumb enough to think that the roads in "Europe" are paved with gold and such shit.

The bureaucracy and the oligrschs bought it because like all ehores they look at the EC as a new sugar daddy.

The USA pulled it's usual miopic hurr durr muh freedumb bullshit and Europe was stuck holding the bag, which it did gladly.

All of those holier than thou intervenalist shits need to watch their project go up in flames and they need to lose, badly.

All their potential future clients need to watch it and stay away from the EU, since I went zero expansion and I have wanted it for years.

All of the cowardly whataboutist chickenhawks like you need to lose, too.

Ukraine, can go fuck itself, s long as it is not making trouble for me.

 

[Marduk]

When my personal or national interests are impacted and when money needs to be spent.

Likewise.

The USA and the French with the help of NAFO broke Libya and Siria, and the initial bad money we threw st it is being joined by more good money.

I for one don't care, so i'm going to take a page from your book and go fight for the local shitty dictators if you care so much.
Though what do you care for what French and Americans do with their money, you're a Bulgarian kek.

The situation is the same in Ukraine.

The EU told the Ukrainians they can join, the population bought it and they were dumb enough to think that the roads in "Europe" are paved with gold and such shit.

The bureaucracy and the oligrschs bought it because like all ehores they look at the EC as a new sugar daddy.

The USA pulled it's usual miopic hurr durr muh freedumb bullshit and Europe was stuck holding the bag, which it did gladly.

All of those holier than thou intervenalist shits need to watch their project go up in flames and they need to lose, badly.

All their potential future clients need to watch it and stay away from the EU, since I went zero expansion and I have wanted it for years.

All of the cowardly whataboutist chickenhawks like you need to lose, too.

Ukraine, can go fuck itself, s long as it is not making trouble for me.

Well i want more random countries in the EU to make it harder for France, Germany and Brussels to run it so that they either have to get sane or fall apart so fuck you, you need to fail.

 

[Agent23]

Likewise.


I for one don't care, so i'm going to take a page from your book and go fight for the local shitty dictators if you care so much.

Well i want more random countries in the EU to make it harder for France, Germany and Brussels to run it so that they either have to get sane or fall apart so fuck you, you need to fail.

Oh, boy, tell me again who is the tsundere here.

Hint, it is you.

I will address the only moderately sane point you have here, oh you gullible, musgided bronekokoshka.
Why the hell do you think that more EU expansion will lead to the Eurocracy losing power and reforming, eh?

It is EXACTLY THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

The more the EU expands, the more cdptive markets and cheap workers there are for Germany and the vsrious French companies that do manage to sell stuff internationally.

The more the EU expands, the larger the clientele for the Eurocracy is, every new shithole they being in has an old, shitty bureaucracy of unexpected scum and a bunch of oligarchs ther will gladly whore their country out to the EU and have their EU representatives and deputies and whatever rubber-stamp whatever the committee, the big Kraut corpos and the other special interest groups that form the relevant coalitions, like LGBTQ lobbies and social justice scum and the greens will get their way.

If you haven't noticed the EU is using this war as yet another huge power grab.

Anyway, I am still waiting for your Frontline dispatches, you hypocritical coward and don't forget this:

 

[Marduk]

Oh, boy, tell me again who is the tsundere here.

Hint, it is you.

I will address the only moderately sane point you have here, oh you gullible, musgided bronekokoshka.
Why the hell do you think that more EU expansion will lead to the Eurocracy losing power and reforming, eh?

It is EXACTLY THE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

The more the EU expands, the more cdptive markets and cheap workers there are for Germany and the vsrious French companies that do manage to sell stuff internationally.

So by your logic Germany and France weren't bossing around the EU when they had an even bigger proportion of votes and influence in it?
You fucking clown...

The more the EU expands, the larger the clientele for the Eurocracy is, every new shithole they being in has an old, shitty bureaucracy of unexpected scum and a bunch of oligarchs ther will gladly whore their country out to the EU and have their EU representatives and deputies and whatever rubber-stamp whatever the committee, the big Kraut corpos and the other special interest groups that form the relevant coalitions, like LGBTQ lobbies and social justice scum and the greens will get their way.

So the more countries that don't care about SJW shit get into the EU... the more influence in the EU the SJWs get? Are you even *trying* to make sense anymore, or are you just generating replies with an AI?

If you haven't noticed the EU is using this war as yet another huge power grab.

Anyway, I am still waiting for your Frontline dispatches, you hypocritical coward and don't forget this:

And i'm waiting for your immigration to Russia and giving up citizenship in all NATO and EU countries, poorly camouflaged vatnik, go where you belong.

And for everyone else's entertainment:

 

[mrttao]

And i'm waiting for your immigration to Russia and giving up citizenship in all NATO and EU countries, poorly camouflaged vatnik, go where you belong.

Again with the stupid vatnik calls.
If someone isn't kneeling by your side to fellate globohomo then they are a vatnik.
I honestly am disappointed.

 

[Marduk]

Again with the stupid vatnik calls.
If someone isn't kneeling by your side to fellate globohomo then they are a vatnik.
I honestly am disappointed.

If he only was doing that...
If someone is shilling for "legitimate security interests" of Russia, he is a vatnik.

 

[Agent23]

So by your logic Germany and France weren't bossing around the EU when they had an even bigger proportion of votes and influence in it?
You fucking clown...

SJW-itis is actually getting exported of you haven't noticed, and if you actually think that voting decides anything in the EU then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[Marduk]

SJW-itis is actually getting exported of you haven't noticed, and if you actually think that voting decides anything in the EU then I have a bridge to sell you.

If you haven't noticed, the biggest SJWs also hate NATO, and the biggest victim of SJW-itis in the EU, the UK, has left, so you're just making shit up to try sell traditional leftist anti-western positions to right wingers

 

[Agent23]

If you haven't noticed, the biggest SJWs also hate NATO, and the biggest victim of SJW-itis in the EU, the UK, has left, so you're just making shit up to try sell traditional leftist anti-western positions to right wingers

The fucking bottom of your barrel must have the structural integrity of swiss cheese from all this scraping.

A lot of this LGBTQ/DEI/ESG bullshit came from the west, like the USA and the UK that you fanboy and that are the core of the useless organization of grifting MIC welfare queens staffed by it.

MI6 flies transgender flag for first time as boss speaks of his pride in staff

Gen. Mark Milley Compared Trump Supporters To Nazis: ‘These Are The Same People We Fought In World War II’ | The Daily Wire

For Neocons, It's Always Munich - The American Conservative

Neocons Want A War With Russia To Regain Control Of The GOP

Plenty more where they came from.

Then again, you are just a broken record with a head thet I'd thicker than lead so I wonder why I bother.

 

[King Arts]

If he only was doing that...
If someone is shilling for "legitimate security interests" of Russia, he is a vatnik.

I mean Agent is a bit of a vatnick. But those quotes aren't wrong. Nations have security interests nothing is black and white, there is grey to Russia's interests in eastern Europe, Germanie's interests in eastern Europe, the USA's interests in South America, etc. The alternative is that we say one side is perfectly pure and are holy pious saints, and the others are evil and why don't it's people stop being devil worshippers.

We can say that yes Russia has legitimate security interest in eastern europe. Yes they want natural land borders like Peter Zeihan says, however no we support the small nations that exist, and we won't let you get your security agreement. We prioritize the security interest of the small nations, and if it's a choice between them and Russia, we pick them.

 

[mrttao]

The alternative is that we say one side is perfectly pure and are holy pious saints, and the others are evil and why don't it's people stop being devil worshippers.

I mean... this is literally what they are saying.
And going a step further, they say that anyone who does not agree with them that Russians are literal devils and ukraines are literal angels is a Vatnik who should go back to Russia.

This is why this argument is so pathetic. This is just the neocon variant of the woke crowd.

 

[Marduk]

The fucking bottom of your barrel must have the structural integrity of swiss cheese from all this scraping.

A lot of this LGBTQ/DEI/ESG bullshit came from the west, like the USA and the UK that you fanboy and that are the core of the useless organization of grifting MIC welfare queens staffed by it.

Of course it came "from the west", why would the commies promote anti-western bullshit idiocy in the east?
With the telling sign being you sharing the same people's whining about the MIC.

MI6 flies transgender flag for first time as boss speaks of his pride in staff

Gen. Mark Milley Compared Trump Supporters To Nazis: ‘These Are The Same People We Fought In World War II’ | The Daily Wire

For Neocons, It's Always Munich - The American Conservative

Neocons Want A War With Russia To Regain Control Of The GOP

Plenty more where they came from.

Then again, you are just a broken record with a head thet I'd thicker than lead so I wonder why I bother.

Yes, the MIC should go back to making warmachines and ordnance instead of being distracted by virtue signalling for causes the proponents of which hate it anyway, like the people in pictures linked before.

I mean Agent is a bit of a vatnick. But those quotes aren't wrong. Nations have security interests nothing is black and white, there is grey to Russia's interests in eastern Europe, Germanie's interests in eastern Europe, the USA's interests in South America, etc. The alternative is that we say one side is perfectly pure and are holy pious saints, and the others are evil and why don't it's people stop being devil worshippers.

Nations can dress their choices in all sorts of terms. Sometimes these interests conflict.

We can say that yes Russia has legitimate security interest in eastern europe. Yes they want natural land borders like Peter Zeihan says, however no we support the small nations that exist, and we won't let you get your security agreement. We prioritize the security interest of the small nations, and if it's a choice between them and Russia, we pick them.

I can admit this is absolutely an interest of Russian imperialists, but i will not accept the legitimacy of such, legitimacy implies some sort of legal or value judgement. If there is legitimacy to such an interest, then Poland has an equally legitimate interest in having a border with China on the Ural mountains.

 

[Agent23]

I mean Agent is a bit of a vatnick. But those quotes aren't wrong. Nations have security interests nothing is black and white, there is grey to Russia's interests in eastern Europe, Germanie's interests in eastern Europe, the USA's interests in South America, etc. The alternative is that we say one side is perfectly pure and are holy pious saints, and the others are evil and why don't it's people stop being devil worshippers.

We can say that yes Russia has legitimate security interest in eastern europe. Yes they want natural land borders like Peter Zeihan says, however no we support the small nations that exist, and we won't let you get your security agreement. We prioritize the security interest of the small nations, and if it's a choice between them and Russia, we pick them.

Yeah, sure, I am following in the steps of the great Vatnik George F. Kennan of Containment theory and Long Telegram Fame.

 

[Bacle]

Moldovan Prime Minister is saying that Russia may attempt to seize an airport to enable moving more troops into the nation.

 

[King Arts]

Nations can dress their choices in all sorts of terms. Sometimes these interests conflict.

Yes this I agree with.

I can admit this is absolutely an interest of Russian imperialists, but i will not accept the legitimacy of such, legitimacy implies some sort of legal or value judgement. If there is legitimacy to such an interest, then Poland has an equally legitimate interest in having a border with China on the Ural mountains.

When I use legitimacy I am not referring to morality, I was equating letimitate with rational. For example a time when the west did things that were immoral yet legitimate aka rational. Was when America involved itself in the governments of the US it invaded Mexico Nicaragua, Panama, etc. Those nations should have the right to set their own internal policy and be friendly to other nations even if those nations are rivals of the US no? Yet America has a legitimate interest in the monroe doctrine to make sure another power can't get a foothold in the Americas. What would not be "legitimate" would be America invading the UK just because. There would be no logic to it.

 

[Marduk]

Yes this I agree with.


When I use legitimacy I am not referring to morality, I was equating letimitate with rational.

In that case the rationality is very questionable since the age of nuclear detente.
The logic is such - no one will want to get nuked to try take over Russia.
If they do - well ICBMs don't care about rivers and mountains they need to fly over.

If anyone gets such a huge technological advantage over Russia that he can get to Moscow without getting effectively nuked by Russia and for some reason wants this war, no amount of geographical buffer will save Russia, and the attempts to get it will only help create a casus belli for this rather hypothetical militant western superpower with sci-fi tech.

For example a time when the west did things that were immoral yet legitimate aka rational. Was when America involved itself in the governments of the US it invaded Mexico Nicaragua, Panama, etc.

I think we have already had the discussion about "oh those poor South American socialists America didn't let rule the place" and you know my opinion of it already.

Those nations should have the right to set their own internal policy and be friendly to other nations even if those nations are rivals of the US no? Yet America has a legitimate interest in the monroe doctrine to make sure another power can't get a foothold in the Americas.

If Monroe Doctrine was applied in reality the same way you interpret it, as in similarly as Russian imperial interests are applied, there would have never been a Cuban Missile Crisis, because USMC would have had a lot of action between Korea and Vietnam, and Cuba would be part of NATO now.
USA has in fact allowed other powers to get a foothold or even few in Americas even though it technically could have prevented it, that is something completely derailing all the comparisons to Russia.

What would not be "legitimate" would be America invading the UK just because. There would be no logic to it.

Only a matter of bold imagination. USA could in fact outright copy Russia's handbook in this, as UK is the where USA has begun, and so it is not right for UK to not be part of American civilization.

 

[King Arts]

In that case the rationality is very questionable since the age of nuclear detente.
The logic is such - no one will want to get nuked to try take over Russia.
If they do - well ICBMs don't care about rivers and mountains they need to fly over.

If anyone gets such a huge technological advantage over Russia that he can get to Moscow without getting effectively nuked by Russia and for some reason wants this war, no amount of geographical buffer will save Russia, and the attempts to get it will only help create a casus belli for this rather hypothetical militant western superpower with sci-fi tech.


I think we have already had the discussion about "oh those poor South American socialists America didn't let rule the place" and you know my opinion of it already.

If Monroe Doctrine was applied in reality the same way you interpret it, as in similarly as Russian imperial interests are applied, there would have never been a Cuban Missile Crisis, because USMC would have had a lot of action between Korea and Vietnam, and Cuba would be part of NATO now.
USA has in fact allowed other powers to get a foothold or even few in Americas even though it technically could have prevented it, that is something completely derailing all the comparisons to Russia.


Only a matter of bold imagination. USA could in fact outright copy Russia's handbook in this, as UK is the where USA has begun, and so it is not right for UK to not be part of American civilization.

So I just wanted to say not everything in South America is communism. Of those three examples Nicaragua was socialist yes. Mexico was more complicated the civil war had many factions. But in the end the commies basically won as they were anti clerical to the extreme and banned the Catholic Church to the same degree as was seen at the worst parts of the French revolution, yet America did not intervene for that. They just protected certain American companies and that's it. And Panama they were a right wing narco state. They weren't commies and even helped us against communists earlier with Nicaragua. So technically they were more capitalist then America and America fought to get rid of capitalism and put in a more socialist government.

 

[ATP]

So? They're a country in their own right now, and the people of Ukraine deserve the right to self-governance just as much as everyone else does. The ones who actually want it, I mean; as I also thought the people of Crimea deserved the right to decide that they wanted to be part of Russia instead.

Technically,ukrainians as nation was created by austrian after 1860 to counter poles.Before that they were just locals.
Problem is - the same goes for all nations in Europe.
Well,except Poland and Hungary,but even there only 10-20% of population considered themselves as part of nation before 1800.

So,if we agree that somebody should not have state becouse its nations was invented in 19th century,then,except Poland and Hungary,we should not have states at all.

 

[AmosTrask]

I care because those bullshit organizations impact me when they try to expand, start pointless conflicts like in Yugoslavia, Libya and Siria and push for more expansion of EU control, expansion of the Eurozone or territorial expansion of the EU.
I have no dog in this war, and I don't care about the mutts a few reetards in the NATO and the EU bureaucracy and you bellicose NAFO fanboys and cowardly polish irredentists might have, in fact I would love it for their mutts to be dragged out and executed before their very eyes.

As I live in Romania and never, EVER want to see Soviet rule. I will say FUCK YOU. You dictator loving bastard! Since you love the Soviets so much I invite you to take your Turko ass over to Moscow. I'm sure they have a Mobilization card waiting for you.

 

[Agent23]

Aaand I see our Kantorek larper has gone completely off the deep end and is stretching turkish delights into multiple higher dimensions because he has jack squat again.

Come on, bronekokoshka, your glory, and soaked trench, and overpriced moldy rations all await for you in the Donbass.

In fact it is awaiting you and all of the other loud mouthed crybabies and sockpuppets that you are so chummy with.

Prove the world you are not a hypocrite and a coward and stand up for something, and by that I do not mean posting page agter page of mindless whataboutist drivel.

As I live in Romania and never, EVER want to see Soviet rule. I will say FUCK YOU. You dictator loving bastard! Since you love the Soviets so much I invite you to take your Turko ass over to Moscow. I'm sure they have a Mobilization card waiting for you.

Do you (probably paid) NAFO fanboys have, like, a list of silly responses to add?
The soviets have not been a thing for 30+ years now.

What I would love to do is team up with the Russians and the Hungarians and make sure some land you treacherous backstabbers stole gets returned to its rightful owners.


A land-locked Romania without Dobrudzha or access to the black sea and a larger Hungary next to it will look really great on a map.