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Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

History Learner

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Unencumbered by idiotic politics. The USA won both Vietnamese wars but could not complete the campaign because politics held them back. The same thing happened in Afghanistan. Read what you are replying to before you move on to 4Chan bullshit click bait pictures.
Indeed I do read more than just 4Chan clickbait, which is why I'm able to call bullshit on the idea it's just "idiotic politics". Republican Presidents signed the Paris Agreement and Doha Agreements which lead to those defeats, you can't blame the Commie loving/Islamo-Fascist-loving Demonrats for either of those. U.S. Army retrospectives on Afghanistan as early as 2015 were directly saying we had lost, and this was clear by 2018 when most of the country was being occupied or contested by the Taliban despite Trump surging troops into the theater in 2017.

In reality, the U.S. Armed Forces were decisively defeated in both conflicts by their opponents, who implemented textbook successful insurgency operations. The counter argument is inevitably cope concerning kill counts, which leaves out most of said kill counts are civilians and didn't change the end result. Do you question who the victor of the American Civil War was, given the Confederates inflicted higher casualties on the Union? If no, then the same goes for the Viet Cong or Taliban; they outlasted us and secured all of their objectives, we didn't.
 

Zachowon

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Should we give evidence of again, Desert Storm, Iraq.
Wagner vs the might of the entire US Military basically.
 

History Learner

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Should we give evidence of again, Desert Storm, Iraq.
Certainly:


Wagner vs the might of the entire US Military basically.
The one engagement we've had between saw the U.S. military get kicked out of the ground area by them, so not a good track record I would say. Remember when they bullied us into backing down over Syria in 2013? I do too, which has not been followed by the complete unwilligness to engage in the wake of the Polish Missile Incident.
 

Arch Dornan

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Straight from the bear's mouth. Is this a declaration of war against the global homo on paper?
 

Zachowon

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A cursory search can find cases of rape in various militaries not just Russia.

The US is no different in their sex scandals.
What I mean is that Russian soldiers are known to rape those under them to get things done and to place thier dominance over others.
US has plenty if sex scandals but it isn't so ingrained every unit does it.
 

History Learner

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History Learner

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Uh...
I ain't talking about against the civilians.
It is apart of thier culture to rape people in the military. Thier form of hazing.


Hell, the infamous blow job drone bomb
What's really funny about that episode is they were wearing AFU uniforms, and the first channel to release the video was Wagner affiliated, stating it was the action of their own drones.
 

Arch Dornan

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What I mean is that Russian soldiers are known to rape those under them to get things done and to place thier dominance over others.
US has plenty if sex scandals but it isn't so ingrained every unit does it.
So you say especially when leaks of Russian soldiers getting butt raped tend to get released.

Maybe fortunate I never got a chance to put on the non American uniform. I could be sent to one of those fucked up places similar to Fort Bragg and end up eating my own bullet or have my severed head be discovered on a beach.
 

Zachowon

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I can tell you the US culture is no where near as bad as Russian.
We have bad apples for sure.
But again, unlike on ours where reporting this stuff can at some point work out.
There it is literally part of establishing rank structure
 

History Learner

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Honestly, the most annoying thing to me is this trend of Whitewashing NATO militaries and countries at large, while Blackwashing the Russians. I certainly don't think the latter is clean-I was getting sent videos of them using cluster munitions from Ukrainians and Russians back in March-but anybody from the U.S. trying to criticize even that seems to forget we did exactly this for years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hell, if you want to talk about military rape, anybody else remember the scandal the RAF had recently where they raped a guy with a mortar and it turned out this was a unit tradition?

My biggest pet peeve is double standards and outright lying. If I'm wrong, I'll cop to it when sufficient evidence is presented; I ate my words when the Kharkov offensive happened, for example. The complete lack of introspection or objective consideration of evidence is what irks me the most about the Pro-Ukrainian side. I actually have a friend in the AFU; we get along better despite our differences then I can with any of their Western backers.
 

History Learner

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I can tell you the US culture is no where near as bad as Russian.
We have bad apples for sure.
But again, unlike on ours where reporting this stuff can at some point work out.
There it is literally part of establishing rank structure
Would come as one HELL of a shock to the soldiers stationed at Fort Hood:

 

Arch Dornan

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I can tell you the US culture is no where near as bad as Russian.
We have bad apples for sure.
But again, unlike on ours where reporting this stuff can at some point work out.
There it is literally part of establishing rank structure
Everyone does but in yours it multiplies because of playing world police. It's not any surprise just an eventual evolution to abuse of power.
 

Zachowon

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US is not pearly white.
No countries military is.

BUT, when we literally have soldiers being forced to give Oral sex in the field.
When we have had plenty if storied and reports of Russians raping others for hazing or to establish they are in charge.
Isn't how things are done in the west. At least not on the scale of Russia.


I lobe how you use Fort Hood.

Have you ever seen US soldiers having sex during conflict?
Gay sex at that?
No?
Huh, wonder why they would do that...oh because it is literally apart of thier culture.

How could they be losing.

How could Kherson fall to Ukraine?
Izyum?
HOW COULD THEY FAIL TO THE GAY WEST!
Everyone does but in yours it multiplies because of playing world police.
Not really.
We are definitely better then Russia.
We didn't make Grozny a city of rubble.
Yes we bombed Yugo a lot. We didn't turn it into literal rubble like what happend in Chechnya.
 

Arch Dornan

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Honestly, the most annoying thing to me is this trend of Whitewashing NATO militaries and countries at large, while Blackwashing the Russians. I certainly don't think the latter is clean-I was getting sent videos of them using cluster munitions from Ukrainians and Russians back in March-but anybody from the U.S. trying to criticize even that seems to forget we did exactly this for years in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hell, if you want to talk about military rape, anybody else remember the scandal the RAF had recently where they raped a guy with a mortar and it turned out this was a unit tradition?

My biggest pet peeve is double standards and outright lying. If I'm wrong, I'll cop to it when sufficient evidence is presented; I ate my words when the Kharkov offensive happened, for example. The complete lack of introspection or objective consideration of evidence is what irks me the most about the Pro-Ukrainian side. I actually have a friend in the AFU; we get along better despite our differences then I can with any of their Western backers.
It's bound to happen. He's part of the army and compelled to defend it's honor.
Not really.
We are definitely better then Russia.
We didn't make Grozny a city of rubble.
Yes we bombed Yugo a lot. We didn't turn it into literal rubble like what happend in Chechnya.
You don't really want to go there. Victims and closer witnesses of your bombings would disagree.
 

Zachowon

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I ain't defending because I am compelled too.
Bad shit has happend in my military. We have dine plenty if bad things.
But we arnt on the level of countries like Russia, China, Syria, South American dictatorships, Middle Eastern dictatorships.

Hell, did you not hear what happend in Myanmar? A concert was air strikes by the Junta.

Sure we may have had a strike on a wedding or killed some innocents.
But countries and governments that follow the same way Russia and China do have committed so many more issues.
BECAUSE they follow them.
 

History Learner

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It's bound to happen. He's part of the army and compelled to defend it's honor.
I've said it before, but I honestly I would respect the position more if they were just honest about it coming from Nationalist grounds and cut out the fake moralizing. Like, I do not get along at all with @Marduk, but I have said before I can respect his position more than I can the others, simply because it's pretty obviously motivated out of Eastern European ethnic grievances. Honestly kinda based, if wrong and fool hardy in my estimation. The Ukrainians I interact with never shy away from this aspect, don't do the fake morality stuff, and it's why I get along well with them; otherwise it's just an insult to my intelligence to pretend Russia invading Ukraine is bad when we invaded Iraq as I was growing up.
 
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