Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

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ATP

Well-known member
Well, it's one thing to say that the Global Agenda is against Russia... but quite another for them to gloss over how Putin - despite making the West his avowed enemy and committing himself publicly to slaying that supposed dragon - has failed miserably and gotten his ass kicked in the process.

That's the part some people need to dwell on a little more.

Global agenda made deal with Putin.Remember how Biden 19.2.2022 claimed,that "small agression" mean small sanctions?
They arleady gave Moscov Ukraine,but agreed to made it bit by bit.
In exchange for help against China,of course.And,they would probably gave them Poland,Baltics and everything they want later.

Then,Putin broken deal and decide to swallow Ukraine in one go,as China ally.
So,USA start supporting Ukraine - initially only with smaller weapons,later 155mm guns and HIMARS.They still do not send planes or tanks.
But,they still want deal with Moscov - probably waiting for Putin death.
I pray for Putin long live - becouse,when he die,USA would gave us to Moscov.At least USA ruled by democrats.

P.S @Jormungandr ,when somebody kill Putin,we would get another KGB colonel,becouse Their state is ruled by KGB mafias.
They would be as bad as Putin - but USA democrats and germans use it as pretext to making new deals with them.
Over my nation corpse,and few others,too.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
IMO actually she was simply "not bad". Her being one of the more competent and less crazy/stupid Russian monarchs makes me want to cry over how fucked the Russian people are ...
Note the Russian part. I did not say the best administrator of all Monarchs, but of Russian Monarchs. Muscovites are insane.

Hehe hehe! God damn I can't stop laughing when Yuri posts in his R&R.
 
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AmosTrask

Well-known member
Ahh. Instead of selling Ukraine the Iron Dome. Israel is sending a medical corps to train the Ukrainians and is attacking Iran directly instead. Destroying drone and artillery ammunition factories and assassination of key scientists. Good enough. They don't want the FSB to capture samples
 
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King Arts

Well-known member
Poland, they have the best and easiest access to it.

It is a hopped up military base, so the 'ethnic pop' are moot; removing all Russian decended folks to St. Petersberg would be the best option.
Umm half a million people is more than just a military base. And ethnically clensing them just because it secures the west's borders. How can you claim the moral high ground when you are doing to the people of Konigsburg/Kalingrad what Putin wants to do to Ukraine capture the land for strategic reasons and remove the population.

She could be good administrator - but she also killed her husband,and have so many lovers that historians still argue who was father of next tsar.
And,she provoked Bar confereracy in 1768 - and,as a result,must gave about 30% of Poland to prussia ans Austria in partitions,when,before that,she have entire Poland as vassal state.

@King Arts ,East Prussia was once polish vassal state,so we have rights to what remain of it.
I'm sorry but Poland's claim is like China's claim to Mongolia or other territories like Siberia. I mean the city was started by the Teutonic Order, which then turned into Prussia when the Teuton's abandoned their faith and oaths, and while Prussia was a Polish vassal for a little while, Poland never directly controlled it. And in the modern day people say vassal states are bad, and we shouldn't have them. Now personally I think that if Russia is totally beaten then they should be forced to give that territory up, and Poland should get military access to that territory. But I think that the city should be not a part of Poland but an independent city state with full internal sovereignty they can have any laws they want and don't have to obey Polish laws in the city, but they won't be given full powers to make foreign treaties so they can't go back to Russia, however Poland should be allowed military access.

What you fail to realize, is that the Democrats will always offer more.

You cannot win over the 'I want a bigger welfare check!' demographic, not in any meaningful numbers, because any time you promise to support their program, the Dems will just one-up you by promising to support it, and throw more money into the trough while they're at it!

You're ready to bitch about the neocons, yet you're promulgating the exact same kinds of fiscal policies associated with the W. Bush-era 'moderate right.'

'Tax and spend' mentality and redistributionism are antithetical to American conservatism. They're also corrosive to the social fabric, not just economic or fiscal problems. The collapse of the black family, and steady degradation of American families in general, can be directly tied to the perverse incentives of the welfare system. They aren't the only cause, but they're major contributors.

Every time you push 'gibs' and handouts, you are validating leftist ideology, and functionally supporting further electoral wins on their part.

...Not exactly surprising, given how you seem to have completely backwards ideas about just about every field of politics.
I'm sorry this is the words of a loser. "Oh but the libs will just promise more than we give." Then offer more than the libs. Learn history in Ancient Rome the optimates lost the side that won the Populares were the ones that were giving bread and circuses to the masses. If the Republic is to fall better to be on top of the heap than sticking to the principles of a loser. So fuck your "principles of American conservatism" They might have worked in the past but in the current age strategies need to change.

Also you don't seem to know what Bush's and the Neocucks mentality was. It was not tax and spend it was cut taxes on the wealthy borrow and then spend. That war in the middle east it took us from a surplus to a deficient.

So no you are the one who seems to have backwards ideas that will lead to conservative principles failing all because you put the money of the rich above every other value. I however am willing to sacrifice your idol of "fiscal conservativism" to preserve other conservative values like religion, faith, family, and culture, and heritage of the common people.

Ukraine is a part of the Greater West, to be fair. It's not some anti-American Third World country.
I'm sorry but what the fuck is the greater west? Why are we a part of it?
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Umm half a million people is more than just a military base. And ethnically clensing them just because it secures the west's borders. How can you claim the moral high ground when you are doing to the people of Konigsburg/Kalingrad what Putin wants to do to Ukraine capture the land for strategic reasons and remove the population.
Let's say Soviets liked their military bases big. Though it's not even that ridiculously big...
Fort Bragg is the most populous US military base at 270k, of which only about quarter is active duty, so not that far off.
Secondly, Russia\Soviet Union has taken this land in 1945 by conquest, no questions about that, and settled it with military and military families. Russia\Soviet Union has no historical relationship with that place from before WW2.
Now imagine USA has built a 2x Fort Bragg sized base in Okinawa, kicked out the locals to Japan's main islands, and then claimed it as a US state.
I'm sorry but Poland's claim is like China's claim to Mongolia or other territories like Siberia.
More like China's claim to Hong Kong, except better. It could also be reasonably contested for division with Lithuania though.
I mean the city was started by the Teutonic Order, which then turned into Prussia when the Teuton's abandoned their faith and oaths, and while Prussia was a Polish vassal for a little while, Poland never directly controlled it. And in the modern day people say vassal states are bad, and we shouldn't have them. Now personally I think that if Russia is totally beaten then they should be forced to give that territory up, and Poland should get military access to that territory. But I think that the city should be not a part of Poland but an independent city state with full internal sovereignty they can have any laws they want and don't have to obey Polish laws in the city, but they won't be given full powers to make foreign treaties so they can't go back to Russia, however Poland should be allowed military access.
Considering the experiences with such solutions in the past, there is a reason why things like this aren't offered as a serious solution to this and many other contested territories anymore. The problem is that this thing would be basically an open invitation for Russia to start a crisis around it as soon as the geopolitical winds become more favorable to it. No one wants that.

Also Teutons\Prussians aren't exactly natives of that area either.

I'm sorry this is the words of a loser. "Oh but the libs will just promise more than we give." Then offer more than the libs. Learn history in Ancient Rome the optimates lost the side that won the Populares were the ones that were giving bread and circuses to the masses. If the Republic is to fall better to be on top of the heap than sticking to the principles of a loser. So fuck your "principles of American conservatism" They might have worked in the past but in the current age strategies need to change.
That is true, but it's just one lesson of historical statecraft. The other lesson, also from Rome, is that the road that leads to bankrupcy, evading bankrupcy by currency debasement, and then controlling prices to fix that is not a road one wants to take. Commies are not to be copied, they are a warning and left to their own devices they inevitably cause an economic disaster.
I think the optimal compromise position here would be for the GOP to care more about the economic interests of its more or less realistic "grassroots" electorate, but at the same time do not engage in a bidding war against the DNC over the underclass and DNC's favored groups.
 
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mrttao

Well-known member
I'm sorry this is the words of a loser. "Oh but the libs will just promise more than we give." Then offer more than the libs.
If I offered more than the libs, I would be a liberal.
The liberals:
1. offer more than is physically possible to give
2. base their entire platform on gibs

I don't want to be a liberal. so I am instead going to vote for people who vow to cut down government spending
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
I'm sorry this is the words of a loser. "Oh but the libs will just promise more than we give." Then offer more than the libs.

And here you again you have no idea how to actually try to run a government, or make a nation work.

As Mrttao has said, The liberals promise more than is possible already.

Getting into a bidding war over vote-buying via government money just ends up going to the way of Zimbabwe, debasing your currency to the point where it's worthless, collapsing your economy, and ultimately achieving the standard results of socialism; everyone not part of The Party is equal in squalor and misery, while those in the party live as the elites always do.

I'd rather at least try to have a functioning economy and nation, rather than throw away all ethics and morals to grasp desperately at power as you advocate.
 

Cherico

Well-known member
FSB to ca

He is taunting the UN for the international warrant on him for murder, war crimes, interfering in the USA electoral system with bribery and hacking for which the US and others have tried and convicted him in absentia. While setting himself up as the strongest of the slew of strongman candidates for succeeding Putin.
As middle fingers go that's a big one
 

ATP

Well-known member
Umm half a million people is more than just a military base. And ethnically clensing them just because it secures the west's borders. How can you claim the moral high ground when you are doing to the people of Konigsburg/Kalingrad what Putin wants to do to Ukraine capture the land for strategic reasons and remove the population.


I'm sorry but Poland's claim is like China's claim to Mongolia or other territories like Siberia. I mean the city was started by the Teutonic Order, which then turned into Prussia when the Teuton's abandoned their faith and oaths, and while Prussia was a Polish vassal for a little while, Poland never directly controlled it. And in the modern day people say vassal states are bad, and we shouldn't have them. Now personally I think that if Russia is totally beaten then they should be forced to give that territory up, and Poland should get military access to that territory. But I think that the city should be not a part of Poland but an independent city state with full internal sovereignty they can have any laws they want and don't have to obey Polish laws in the city, but they won't be given full powers to make foreign treaties so they can't go back to Russia, however Poland should be allowed military access.


I'm sorry this is the words of a loser. "Oh but the libs will just promise more than we give." Then offer more than the libs. Learn history in Ancient Rome the optimates lost the side that won the Populares were the ones that were giving bread and circuses to the masses. If the Republic is to fall better to be on top of the heap than sticking to the principles of a loser. So fuck your "principles of American conservatism" They might have worked in the past but in the current age strategies need to change.

Also you don't seem to know what Bush's and the Neocucks mentality was. It was not tax and spend it was cut taxes on the wealthy borrow and then spend. That war in the middle east it took us from a surplus to a deficient.

So no you are the one who seems to have backwards ideas that will lead to conservative principles failing all because you put the money of the rich above every other value. I however am willing to sacrifice your idol of "fiscal conservativism" to preserve other conservative values like religion, faith, family, and culture, and heritage of the common people.


I'm sorry but what the fuck is the greater west? Why are we a part of it?
Free city under polish umbrella? i could live with that.
 

AmosTrask

Well-known member
Free city under polish umbrella? i could live with that.
Better the poles then the Russians
Poland and Estonia.

This is why I don't pity the monies at all. They don't protest against the war or killing their Ukrainian relatives. They are complaining about the lack of pay and modern barracks, gear and high salaries they were offered. They directly state they will kill as many Ukrainians it takes to "Defend the Motherland!" They've bought completely into the propaganda.

State TV openly state they aren't fighting Ukraine but NATO and that is why they are losing.


15:35 I knew Prygozhin looked familiar! He was the personal chef Putin employed that personally served George Bush Jr at the visit!
 

DarthOne

☦️
Poland and Estonia.

This is why I don't pity the monies at all. They don't protest against the war or killing their Ukrainian relatives. They are complaining about the lack of pay and modern barracks, gear and high salaries they were offered. They directly state they will kill as many Ukrainians it takes to "Defend the Motherland!" They've bought completely into the propaganda.

State TV openly state they aren't fighting Ukraine but NATO and that is why they are losing.


15:35 I knew Prygozhin looked familiar! He was the personal chef Putin employed that personally served George Bush Jr at the visit!


Considering the sheer amount of money and weapons NATO nations have poured into Ukraine…well, as much as I hate to say it, they aren’t exactly wrong in the belief that this is NATO Vs Russia. Or that it plays a role in why Russia is losing.

How much of that is also due to corruption, poor planning and so on, I’ll leave for military historians to figure out in a decade from now. Because that’ll be about as long as it takes for the full picture to start to come into focus.
 

Marduk

Well-known member
Moderator
Staff Member
Considering the sheer amount of money and weapons NATO nations have poured into Ukraine…well, as much as I hate to say it, they aren’t exactly wrong in the belief that this is NATO Vs Russia. Or that it plays a role in why Russia is losing.
This is a ridiculous argument if you have any idea about military matters. It's like saying Saudi Army is really US Army because of all the US kit Saudis have bought.
 

Morphic Tide

Well-known member
This is a ridiculous argument if you have any idea about military matters. It's like saying Saudi Army is really US Army because of all the US kit Saudis have bought.
The Saudis are not being given the money to pay for it, flat-out donated some of it, or getting manpower from volunteers. The Saudi military are a customer of the US military-industrial complex doing their own shit with it, whereas the Ukrainian military is being handed out almost everything needed to some degree AND using it almost exclusively in line with US goals.
 
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