mrttao
Well-known member
Agreed, I was just being lazy.
Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
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We will lend you the equipment you need to fight the war now. After the war you will pay me back with a lease agreement.
For example the United Kingdom I believe, made the last lease repayment for the USA's support in WW2 in the early 1970s.
mrttao
Well-known member
When did stalin ever make a payment for all the war materiel that USA lend-leased to him?
The goal was to bleed the germans to the east so that the west would have fewer casulties. On that basis it is an understandable choice. We were however much too naive and a lot of innocent people died because of our naivity. America's desire to be neutral meant that we often didn't know the players the game and made a whole bunch of mistakes.
And these mistakes cost people their lives.
But If we didn't interviene a lot more people would have been murdered by communism tortured by it and everything else. It was a global conflict against an incredibly evil force and if the dice had gone another way we would have lost.
mrttao
Well-known member
and? this is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.
the question was about paying back lend-leases of military goods.
whether or not gifting military hardware to someone is a good or a bad thing is irrelevant to this discussion and is putting words in my mouth.
literally the opposite. the USA single handedly saved communism via the lend lease program.
the nazies would have exterminated communism if it were not for the usa propping them up. And the communists slaughtered orders of magnitude more people than the nazies.
Both versions of socialism communism and national were evil, the fact is the war we shouldn't of interferred with wasn't the second world war it was the first 1.
Unfortunately U-boats and international trade/tourism meant that the Atlantic was a warzone as soon as the treaties activated in WW1.
Trying to stay neutral wouldn't work in the long run, due to the US have more connections to the Brits and France than Germany or Austria-Hungary.
Now the stuff with the Lusitania was iffy (it had munitions/war supplies on board, the Brits later admitted), but the stuff with the Zimmerman Telegram and Mexico was all on Germany getting full of itself at threatening to help make Pancho Villa just a taste of what was to come, if Mexico open a second front in the Southwest.
If it had just been the Lusitiania, I think we could have stayed out of the war, at least in terms of deploying troops. After the Zimmerman Telegram, there was no way we could stay neutral anymore.
The germans honestly fucked themselves with their shitty diplomatic core.
Buba
A total creep
The USA had been bending over to be reamed by the UK and France in their trampling of Neutrals' rights since Day One. Had Jefferson - or Adams or Madison - been President the US would had been at war in 1915 latest - as Central Powers' co-beligerent.
True that German diplomacy - if one can even call that - was beyond moronic, but the USA under Wilson was "asking for it".
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Added additioonal and Worthy POTUSes
True that German diplomacy - if one can even call that - was beyond moronic, but the USA under Wilson was "asking for it".
EDIT:
Added additioonal and Worthy POTUSes
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He didn't. The USSR reneged immediately after the Germans capitulated. You are ignoring the point. The gentleman was asking what a Lend-Lease agreement entailed. I answered using layman's terms. Your question is irrelevant to the short discussion I had with the poster.
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Mitch McConnell Says Dems Aren’t Doing Enough for Ukraine, Vows Even More Money After Midterms
nationalfile.com
Mitch McConnell Says Dems Aren't Doing Enough for Ukraine, Vows Even More Money After Midterms
GOP establishment Senate leader Mitch McConnell is calling for the GOP to send even more aid to Ukraine after the midterm elections.
nationalfile.com
Err. Wasn't McConnell just recently criticizing the amount spent on Ukraine? This new announcement completely contradicts that. How oddly inconsistent for man. He's usually more dogged in his topics.Mitch McConnell Says Dems Aren’t Doing Enough for Ukraine, Vows Even More Money After Midterms
Mitch McConnell Says Dems Aren't Doing Enough for Ukraine, Vows Even More Money After Midterms
GOP establishment Senate leader Mitch McConnell is calling for the GOP to send even more aid to Ukraine after the midterm elections.
mrttao
Well-known member
And I answered that realistically. lend-lease means "gift of war goods".
Realistically you are not expecting any of it back. And the name is one of those "democratic republic" type nonsense.
Besides, making payments on goods without returning them is neither lending nor is it leasing. It is debt financing.
If that was the case, the UK wouldn't have bothered paying any of it back either. It's almost like it was a problem with one country in particular.
this is true.
And from time to time doing so makes sense from a real politic standard. Some times you fund and supply people who are fighting against your enemies because it allows you to bleed them at little cost to yourself. You just have to make sure your not being stupid about it.
The USSR was the only country not to pay the USA back.
There is an expiry date on war materials. It would have cost twice as much as buying new for the USA to repossess its goods. Much like in Ukraine the USA sold its oldest gear, machines with 150k kilometres or more of use and marked for replacement and scrapping. While charging for brand new MSRP. The Army makes a lot of money back when they make these deals. Their new gear gets partially paid for by the selling old gear.
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These conscripts at least have tents, that they had to buy. The first groups are still in Summer combat fatigues, that they were also forced to pay for. They had to buy their own plate carriers, helmets and night vision gear. Old Soviet surplus NV that has a wired battery pack that weights 8 lbs and only has enough charge for 2 hours. If they could find any gear in stock. Some showed up to combat in hand knitted vatniks (telogreika) it's like a historical reenactment from the late 1800s. The only thing missing are Mosin Nagants and bayonets . . . Although some troops have all three. Yikes!
And even then Russia still has a decent chance of winning because of shear numbers, and brutality.
Not anymore. They lost that chance back in May when the flow of Western weapons allowed Ukraine to break the Russian offensive. The only way for them to win now is to escalate to nuclear. They tried chemical weapons and it didn't work. Nuclear will bring NATO in.
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