No one cares about your platitudes. What measurable, material concessions did Russia get out of Germany with this between the beginning of the war and the explosion?
Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
- Thread starter Zachowon
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What you described ealier is how empires historically formed.
You have a power vacume and security risks and states expand into that until they cant expand any more, or they get crushed by a stronger power, or they fall into decadence and collapse. Or disease ect. The Westphalian system is actually pretty new and even then a lot of powers expanded because of the logic of empire.
(The imperial age was basically we cant trust our neighbours not to fuck us over with some war therefore we will have empires to get resources and have captive markets.)
This process only really ended in europe thanks to the civilizational sucide that was the world wars. This by the way is why european countries are so fucking salty about the war in Ukraine, they honestly thought they had moved past history that all of that was finally over. And Russia comes in and utterly fucks all of that built up pride over a couple months.
It turns out history never ends and the europeans are bitter as fuck about it.
It's not that new, it's older than USA and the steam engine. And it's hard to say which had even more effect on the geopolitical map.
As if getting more resources needed any excuses beyond itself.
It was rendered too costly before world wars due to the costs and power of industrial warfare. It only took world wars for the participants to notice how ridiculously costly it is in practice and the conclusions of it. Further reinforced with nuclear MAD later.
Due to industrial+ logistics allowing somewhat effective intercontinental warfare, provoking more countries to take interests in major wars around the world, and the looting not being able to pay off costs of such wars, it's not really good business like it was a thousand years ago or three.
Russia didn't get into it with the expectation of having to fight a full industrial war, their arrogance made them think Ukrainians are too much of lowly funny peasants who need glorious Russian leadership to achieve anything, and West are too much of greedy cowards to help them do it either, gonna threaten them with expensive energy on one side, and nuclear escalation from the other, and they will stay away like the fearful idiots they are.
Keep in mind when I call the westphalian system new I am saying so compared to the thousands of years before that.
and your right the Russians did get arrogant, the art of war continues to be true. Know your enemy and yourself and if you know neither you will have a bad time.
mrttao
Well-known member
projecting much? also apparently literal video evidence of USA president vowing to destroy something before it gets mysteriously destroyed is apparently a platitude now
what measurable material concessions did russia get from allegedly bombing itself?
Indeed, Russia in a way has fallen into one of biggest spiked pits that come with closed authoritarian regimes. Propaganda-information feedback loop, leading to even the people who are supposed to make the hard decisions making them on the basis of the very same propaganda that they ordered being indirectly regurgitated to them by own underlings, in effect making it hard for their decisionmakers to get any data from outside the bubble of their own making. Data about both their own and other countries. As any propaganda, it obviously said that their country is doing great, and others, not so much.
None so far. Probably none in the future. But they would never know this if they didn't try, and if there was a small chance, it might look worth trying. And once they did try, nothing = nothing, so whatever.
The Russians conveniently forgot it was the Ukrainians who rebelled against the Commonwealth and founded the Russian Empire with Muscovy as its vassal. Kyivan tech, knowledge, manpower and resources fueled Russia. That a Muscovite prince succeeded in his coup and subsequently spent his reign purging Ruthenian power and committed genocide against them. A policy followed by his successors. Calling all non Muscovite Slavs Little Russians and forcing them to assimilate or die. After centuries of bad blood there was no way in Hell the Ukrainians would ever again return to the Russian fold. Not willingly.
The Russians bet their Maskirovka would cow the world's Powers. They bet Ukraine would submit to their threats. They failed on all accounts and created another Afghanistan War for themselves. And with their propensity for war crimes they've made the Ukrainians even more fanatical and willing to die fighting than surrender a single inch of ground.
The Russians bet their Maskirovka would cow the world's Powers. They bet Ukraine would submit to their threats. They failed on all accounts and created another Afghanistan War for themselves. And with their propensity for war crimes they've made the Ukrainians even more fanatical and willing to die fighting than surrender a single inch of ground.
Excellent analysis and it's also worth noting that Ukraine also produced most of Russia's historical Jewish population if one takes Poland out of the mix (since Poland gained its independence from Russia during World War I). The Jews made up a sizable part of Russia's cognitive elite, though they of course have mostly emigrated over the last several decades.
Looks like Iran is doubling down. After denying supplying Russia with Drones and refusing to sell the Arash-2 suicide drone. They've just announced a lend lease agreement for the Arash-2 drones. 2400 units of them.
The drone ranges in package from the cheapest version using piston engine propeller, 30 kg payload 1000 km. To a rumored rocket engine capable of 1400 km, with a payload of 260 kg. Although none of these are facts are properly verified other than inferences made from electronic Intel. Anything more concrete has not been made available by NATO's various intelligence services.
The drone ranges in package from the cheapest version using piston engine propeller, 30 kg payload 1000 km. To a rumored rocket engine capable of 1400 km, with a payload of 260 kg. Although none of these are facts are properly verified other than inferences made from electronic Intel. Anything more concrete has not been made available by NATO's various intelligence services.
It's amazing to me the number of people and organizations in Russia calling for the genocide of Ukrainian people. They cloak it in all sorts of things, but it's all in your face.
The holomore was also a genocide done against the Ukranian people this is not the first time the Russians have tried to commit genocide against them. Honestly this is far from Russias first genocide their kind of known assholes.
Oh, I know all about Russia's past abuses against Ukraine.
I'm really just amazed by the schutzpah (sp?) these idiots are demonstrating.
I guess, I guess there's no harm in lighting the ship on fire if it's already sinking. I mean...it'll put the fire out eventually.
Buba
A total creep
holodomor (ho-wo-do-mor)
hutzpa (hoots-pah)
Buba scratches head in search of Enlightment- "does not compute ... how do you lend-lease KAMIKAZE robots?"
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mrttao
Well-known member
it is lend-lease, one word. it does not mean lending, it does not mean leasing.
it means "we steal from our citizens to gift to other nations"
The term was coined by USA politicians in 1941 who just wanted to trick the public into thinking this is a loan that will be paid back.
Because citizens tend to oppose being robbed to gift others.
this is like how "democratic people's republic" actually means totalitarian dictatorship
Batrix2070
RON/PLC was a wonderful country.
Well, how? Like in that joke about the Russkie soldat and the anti-tank grenade.
A private comes to the commander:
- Towarishchi, the tanks are coming!
- Skolko ich? (A lot of them?)
- Wosiem. (Eight)
- So you bieri (take) a grenade and will blow away the tanks.
After a while:
- Has you chased away the tanks?
- I chased them away.
- Then give back the grenade!
Buba
A total creep
Don't hold back - specifically it was coined by the economy wrecking, law breaking, Constitution trampling, Stalin loving, all around cheater Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
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