Crossover Muggles in Harry Potter

[Knowledgeispower]

Hell, not even that. A couple of well placed snipers in the towers, a company of Infantry and a Machine gun nest or two could work.

Or a couple platoons equipped with the glorious MK 17 mod 3 fully automatic grenade launcher

 

[CarlManvers2019]

How about the Hunters of Monster Hunter International by Larry Correia?

Wait, they’d be in the UK....gonna get arrested for their love of the 2nd Amendment

 

[Knowledgeispower]

The battle of hogwarts shows that there is a significant role in wizarding combat for masses of non-casters, even if they suffer a tremendous rate of attrition. The simple presence of the spiders shows as much, an attack dog would be no less dangerous.

Its a situation where you need some wizards or the combat is a non-starter, but once you have a critical number of wizards that you don't get steam rolled, non-wizards become crucial. One wizard and one man with a gun have a better chance of beating two wizards than ten men with guns have of beating one wizard.

Depends entirely on the range of the engagement( good luck hitting anything beyond 25 meters with a wand)and the weapons involved especially once you get to the level of crew served weapons

 

[Aaron Fox]

Wow, just wow... people are forgetting that Harry Potter-verse has (basically) no rules and runs on a pure 'magic must defeat magic' mentality when it comes to its magic system. That is why muggles being involved with Potter-verse tends to be either a) Potter-verse is hit with the nerf bat so hard that it is unrecognizable (aka 'Harry Potter in Name Only') or b) paired with a setting that is more crazy and unrestricted in comparison (like, say, Marvel or DC comic universes).

The only good crossover that doesn't demean muggles completely while keeping Harry Potter itself is a Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha crossover/fusion of all things, and it is mostly because muggles developed calculators (and is something that the muggle-borns bemoan losing the ability to use with arithmancy being so calc heavy) and MGLN's 'devices' are essentially magical calculators that feed the solutions into their user's brain directly, and this is something that the magical world wants to replicate the moment they discover there existence.

Although having what amounts to two walking WMDs (Nanoha and Fate) in Hogwarts is... something particular.

 

[Spartan303]

Harry Potter verse clearly does have rules. But what those rules are, are very hard to pin down because JK Rowling refuses to establish them. Unless of course, she's fishing for brownie points.

But here is the thing. A society that is clearly as racist and Xenophobic as the Wizarding World, which doesn't even view Muggles as human except for the 'Noble Good' people who are the 'good guys'. No way that society wouldn't enslave the world at large, if only from the shadows. No way would they be so scared of exposure...unless they have something to be afraid of.

But what that is, is not clearly defined. Hence the wiggle room in discussions and Fanfiction ranging from 'Wizard Stomp' to 'Muggles are Awesome' and both are just as viable and believable as the other depending on your point of view.

 

[Doomsought]

The thing about using spells to defend against guns is you need to know it is coming. There is also the possibility of getting muggleborns, goblins, or whatever else to make bullets that can go through most shields. Diplomacy is a thing.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Harry Potter verse clearly does have rules. But what those rules are, are very hard to pin down because JK Rowling refuses to establish them. Unless of course, she's fishing for brownie points.

But here is the thing. A society that is clearly as racist and Xenophobic as the Wizarding World, which doesn't even view Muggles as human except for the 'Noble Good' people who are the 'good guys'. No way that society wouldn't enslave the world at large, if only from the shadows. No way would they be so scared of exposure...unless they have something to be afraid of.

But what that is, is not clearly defined. Hence the wiggle room in discussions and Fanfiction ranging from 'Wizard Stomp' to 'Muggles are Awesome' and both are just as viable and believable as the other depending on your point of view.

They already control the muggle world. Do remember that they have a spy sitting in the Prime Ministers office 24/7. That they casually replaced his personal secretary with and Auror without the PM being aware. That they were able to, on no notice, casually reschedule an expected telephone call from a President to the PM.

The wizards already won.

As for more active rulership/enslaving the muggles? For what purpose? What good or service can muggles provide that is worth the hassle of actively enslaving them?

The debate in the magical world is between exterminating them like you would an invasive pest species, ignoring them as not worth the hassle of exterminating, or seeing them as "noble savages" that are crippled and need the wizards to take care of them.

 

[Spartan303]

They already control the muggle world. Do remember that they have a spy sitting in the Prime Ministers office 24/7. That they casually replaced his personal secretary with and Auror without the PM being aware. That they were able to, on no notice, casually reschedule an expected telephone call from a President to the PM.

The wizards already won.

I gotta disagree, dude.

They haven't won anything. They're the ones who went into hiding. There isn't a fight. And a Prime Minister can easily hold meetings elsewhere. Or if he so desires he can remove the portrait. But this is the only situation we know of in-verse in which a direct line of communication exists between two heads of states within a country. My feel for that situation was that was supposed to act as a sort of 'Hot line' between both leaders to coordinate on a much deeper level than their respective counterparts. Mainly to avoid misunderstandings and disasters.

Fat lot of good it did.

As for more active rulership/enslaving the muggles? For what purpose? What good or service can muggles provide that is worth the hassle of actively enslaving them?

I think you seriously downplay Wizard self importance, narcissism and Xenophobia. Displays of power and control would be more than enough to justify taking the world openly and establishing the Wizards as the ruling elite class.

he debate in the magical world is between exterminating them like you would an invasive pest species, ignoring them as not worth the hassle of exterminating, or seeing them as "noble savages" that are crippled and need the wizards to take care of them.

Which feeds right into my Xenophobia argument wonderfully, so thank you for that. But the thing is, they can debate it all they want, and while they have the power to cause tremendous damage (lets not fool ourselves here, they certainly can) ultimately they're going to lose more people than it would be deemed worthwhile. And may ultimately fail to meet their goals anyway. We have people argue all the time of exterminating this group or that for insert whatever reason. Ultimately they talk about it but have no real means to do it.
Only now they have a pissed off Non-Magical population who is now aware of them and vying for their blood.

I think you're basing the entire muggle world based off a disarmed British population that has no real means to fight back. But if there was a clear and present threat to the populace the British government may simply arm the populace. And Law of averages does favor an armed Non Magical populace inflicting a significant number of casualties.

One thing that does come out fairly clearly to me, though subtly, is that Wizards are very upset at having to hide who and what they are. They cast that blame at Muggles when really its their own government that is responsible.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

One thing that I wonder if it might transpire that many magical creatures and perhaps marginalized elements of the magical community might decide that muggles will give them a better deal. Thusly, they might defect or try to defect so they can secure a better place in their new arrangement and hell they can probably get some pretty nice concessions, especially the ones that can deal with the things that go bump in the night...or can give the means for muggles to do so, or both.

 

[Harlock]

I think you're basing the entire muggle world based off a disarmed British population that has no real means to fight back. But if there was a clear and present threat to the populace the British government may simply arm the populace. And Law of averages does favor an armed Non Magical populace inflicting a significant number of casualties.

Pretty much this, at that point I don't think it would be up to the government
It's not incredibly hard to get a gun, people don't have them because they don't need them in current society. They are common in the countryside where there is a need, but as most people are urban most people don't bother.

That said I could buy myself a Barrett .50cal sniper rifle, of the rifles the SAS use which hold the record for ranged kill. I could buy a revolver that would make Harry Callaghan blush or a semi automatic shotgun, or enough gear to make a bunch of IEDs and the like.

If there was a need for guns they wouldn't be especially hard to find, not even counting criminals or owners who 'lose' weapons. Different parts of the UK also have different gun laws so it depends where you are, one of the smaller duchies for example can sell you the same stuff you get in the US. ARs, handguns etc

 

[Knowledgeispower]

And of course we have to mention how venerable the wizarding world is to loosing its future what with only a handful of wizarding schools in existence....all it takes is one muggleborn giving away the locations of said schools and a dozen or so simultaneous tactical nuclear strikes later no new Wizards will be reaching the battlefield for a solid half decade at the minimum. Not to mention a lot of the Wizarding World's knowledge both institutional and written are at the same locations.

 

[Doomsought]

I for one would favor knocking over a gallon of dimethylmercury in the Obliviators' office. The symptoms are very ironic.

 

[Knowledgeispower]

I for one would favor knocking over a gallon of dimethylmercury in the Obliviators' office. The symptoms are very ironic.

Personally I'd get them to transfiger ten kilograms worth Azidoazide Azide.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

One thing that makes me wonder, is that whole unplottable charm thing, or what it is called, is how foolproof it is. I wonder if it is possible, to figure out that it has been used by inference and logic alone or to notice magical effects through observation and reflection? If that castle seems really uninteresting for no reason then perhaps it really is...

I wonder if it is possible to circumvent this by using machines, or by targeting "missing" space with artillery or the like as long as you are consciously looking for it. And I also wonder if exotic materials might interact strangely with magic, I mean I wonder if something CERN accidentally creates might have unforeseen consequences for the magical world.

I for one would favor knocking over a gallon of dimethylmercury in the Obliviators' office. The symptoms are very ironic.

Wouldn't that just straight up kill them though?

 

[Knowledgeispower]

Wouldn't that just straight up kill them though?

Considering those scum deliberately cover up crimes of their fellow wizards they deserve it.

One thing that makes me wonder, is that whole unplottable charm thing, or what it is called, is how foolproof it is. I wonder if it is possible, to figure out that it has been used by inference and logic alone or to notice magical effects through observation and reflection? If that castle seems really uninteresting for no reason then perhaps it really is...

I wonder if it is possible to circumvent this by using machines, or by targeting "missing" space with artillery or the like as long as you are consciously looking for it. And I also wonder if exotic materials might interact strangely with magic, I mean I wonder if something CERN accidentally creates might have unforeseen consequences for the magical world.

When in doubt do grid square removal

 

[Lanmandragon]

And of course we have to mention how venerable the wizarding world is to loosing its future what with only a handful of wizarding schools in existence....all it takes is one muggleborn giving away the locations of said schools and a dozen or so simultaneous tactical nuclear strikes later no new Wizards will be reaching the battlefield for a solid half decade at the minimum. Not to mention a lot of the Wizarding World's knowledge both institutional and written are at the same locations.

How the unplottable charm will prevent any kind of targeting. You'd hve to storm the schools with infantry.

 

[Doomsought]

Wouldn't that just straight up kill them though?

It usually takes over a month for the memory loss to kick in. Extremely potent, but slow acting.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

How the unplottable charm will prevent any kind of targeting. You'd hve to storm the schools with infantry.

I am thinking you don't target it. You target where it should be, or you use machines to do so. The second might be iffy, but remember the spell just makes it unplottable, I am thinking about how you might try to circumvent it. So I was thinking you don't target it, you either target the area, or target something else...and it happens to be in the way.

It usually takes over a month for the memory loss to kick in. Extremely potent, but slow acting.

But with that amount wouldn't it just kill them dead?

 

[Lanmandragon]

I am thinking you don't target it. You target where it should be, or you use machines to do so. The second might be iffy, but remember the spell just makes it unplottable, I am thinking about how you might try to circumvent it. So I was thinking you don't target it, you either target the area, or target something else...and it happens to be in the way.



But with that amount wouldn't it just kill them dead?

Maybe but I doubt it I'd say it's likley the magic would make it miss. Storming the schools should be doable if costly though.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

It apparently prevents a location from showing up on any kind of map. It literally can't be mapped.

Which means pretty much all modern guided weapons are useless.

Of course, that is only one of the many defenses that need to be overcome.

I mean muggle aversion charms are a thing. A muggle literally can't go to Hogwarts. Attempt to do so and they will see only a ruin that they become utterly convinced isn't safe, or isn't interesting, or that their kid is locked in the car and they have to save them, or whatever.

Short of a magic counter for those kinds of passive defenses, muggle infantry is entirely worthless against Hogwarts as they will always convince themselves that they need to be somewhere else. And given that muggles all see it as a ruin already, and that the charm apparently works with their own minds to provide an excuse that they find acceptable, you may well have the muggle attackers convinced that they already attacked and destroyed it.

But ultimately, all of this already assumes that you are negating virtually all of the wizards advantages. To reach the point where a dude with a gun is fighting a dude with a wand at ten paces is to essentially word of god fiat your way past 90%+ of the wizards capabilities.

And wizards deciding that they need to be serious? Well then the muggles are thoroughly fucked even in direct combat.

Step 1: Make an invisibility unitard.
Step 2: Charm it with Cushioning, Unbreakable, and Silencing charms.
Step 3: Cast the Bubblehead and Supersensory Charms.
Step 4: Put on hearing protection.
Step 5: Walk through virtually any muggle facility in the world carrying an adult mandrake. Watch everyone who hears it instantly fall over dead.

But really, step five can be pretty much anything because your wizard is pretty much utterly immune to any muggle response.

Unbreakable does exactly what the name implies, it makes something unbreakable. Cast it on a shirt and suddenly that shirt is bulletproof. Pair with a cushioning charm to negate the kinetic energy component and you get to walk around immune to bullets and shrapnel and blades.

The Bubblehead charm provides immunity to inhalation vector gas weapons, and modifying it for full body protection from chemical weapons is probably not that difficult.

Supersensory Charm means that the wizard isn't ever surprised or ambushed.

Invisibility cloak (in the form of the unitard) makes them impossible to see while the silencing charms make them completely silent. Thermal imaging and IR might still work (assuming that magic can't solve those issues relatively easily).

Now who is wearing that suit? Someone who can teleport, unlock any door, turn structural supports into lions, burn down cities, etc.

And now the real kicker, you don't actually need that many of that wizard. A time turner means that they can attack one place, jump back in time and attack another, jump back in time and attack a third, etc.

But lets say that you do manage to attack Hogwarts or the Ministry or Diagon Alley, etc. How are you finding Malfoy Manor? Shell Cottage? The Burrow? Number 12?

A hundred thousand wizards showed up at the Quidditch World Cup. All attacking Hogwarts is going to get you is to enrage the wizards as the muggles just attacked their children and tried to carry out the Witch Hunts again.

Each and every one of those adult wizards is a potential person of mass destruction. Apparate into a city, cast Fiendfyre (if Goyle can do it, it can't be that hard), apparate away and watch the city burn with unquenchable hellfire.

Grindelwald was going to burn Paris down with a spell that wouldn't affect those who were loyal to him. Do you doubt that such a spell couldn't be modified into one that wouldn't affect those who were magical?

Then there are the beasts. Dementors show up at a military base and suddenly everyone present is seeing their worst memories and shivering, all the while flight capable demons that they can't even see (and are immune to most anything they could try) are going around and eating their souls. Let a Nundu loose in London and suddenly they are left with nuking the place or being the epicenter of every plague. Then there is the bird whose cry drives anyone who hears it mad; just put a few under the Imperius curse and have them fly around squawking - you now have a few hundred thousand insane people to deal with.

Now while all this is going on, remember that the muggles no longer have electricity. Why? Because wizards walked around turning power transformers into lemon-pops.

There are no more bridges? Why? Because wizards teleported around and casually transfigured their support beams into metal/stone/concrete lions that are now rampaging through muggle cities killing everyone they come across.

You aren't ever going to get army vs. army combat.