Meme Thread for Both Posting and Discussing Memes

[Abhorsen]

No it is not, that's your ANCAP bias/BS and bad work experience exaggerating things massively for rhetorical flourish and political posturing.

Do you have any actual argument, or are you trying to virtue signal about how far up your head is stuck? Because at this point it is quite unnecessary to continue explaining exactly which organ it's currently passing through, no one wants a play-by-play.

 

[mrttao]

govt contracts to develop and invent stuff where they pay cost are extremely stupid in general and are purely a form of graft.

If a company invents something and the govt pays them for it, that is fine. it is sensible.

But if a product does not even exist, and the govt is paying the engineers to develop it, then the govt should be the one to own the resulting product. And if it is not a military secret then it should be put in the public domain.

 

[Bacle]

Do you have any actual argument, or are you trying to virtue signal about how far up your head is stuck? Because at this point it is quite unnecessary to continue explaining exactly which organ it's currently passing through, no one wants a play-by-play.

And do you have anything other than hyperbole and a personal grudge to use to claim the DoD and MIC is just a skinsuit over rot at this point?

Because I can point to a lot of destroyed Russian gear in Ukraine that shows the MIC's decades of investing in the ability to fuck up Soviet/Russian/CCP shit is paying off, and more basic arms production like arty shells, Javelins, GMLRS, and Stingers ramping up to backfill old stocks we are giving Ukraine.

Edit: The DoD and MIC aren't perfect and could use more anti-corruption measures, but 'rot over skinsuit' is such a ridiculous claim.

 

[Abhorsen]

And do you have anything other than hyperbole and a personal grudge to use to claim the DoD and MIC is just a skinsuit over rot at this point?

And now you've gone beyond smoothbrained takes into outright lies.

I already responded to your quote with this:

Cost plus contracts exist in the DOD because the MIC owns enough of congress. Just look how Lockheed strategically locates factories in congressional districts so the congresspeople know that their votes depend on being pro whatever stupid waste of money they want this time.

Is Lockheed Martin too big to fail?

The company dominates Capitol Hill – with defense jobs in virtually every state.

www.politico.com

Also, it strikes me as hilarious how you were complaining about 'but what if rot sets into the DOD and MIC?' here:

Oh, look, it's an article talking about how a corrupt company purposely arranges its manufacturing in order to control congressional seats.

And I know you saw that post because you replied to it here:

I abhore the rot in the DoD/MIC because it makes the DoD/MIC less effective than it should be, not because I dislike them as institutions.

Seriously, when are you gonna leave your neolib beliefs? You claim to have undergone some changes in opinion, but all it seems to have done is pulled your head from the small intestine to the large one. I swear, the only political difference between you and Pelosi at times seems to be the letter next to your name.

 

[Bear Ribs]

For defense contractors, the rot has been there for decades. The DOD contractors are essentially communist, as they operate in a way that socializes losses. Imagine how good our weapon systems would be right now if we actually acted like a capitalist country when it came to funding weapon systems? Imagine how much cheaper things would be?

You mean the defense companies would sell all the defense secrets to China, like Disney, Nike, and all the other free market capitalists did for an extra dollar this quarter? No thank you, defense is absolutely an area where we shouldn't be acting like a capitalist country.

 

[Abhorsen]

You mean the defense companies would sell all the defense secrets to China, like Disney, Nike, and all the other free market capitalists did for an extra dollar this quarter? No thank you, defense is absolutely an area where we shouldn't be acting like a capitalist country.

I'm not saying not to have security. I'm saying that they payment structure used for the MIC (cost plus being the worst, but also the granularity of congressional approval being a place for a ton of graft too) is the root of the problem. Note that NASA has done this, with the previous model of it buying a spaceship being swapped out for the new model of buying a ticket on SpaceX. This has lead to both cost savings and also a burgeoning industry around space travel, all while still keeping secrecy.

 

[Bacle]

And now you've gone beyond smoothbrained takes into outright lies.

You are the one who decided to say the whole of the DoD/MIC was 'rot in a skinsuit', which is a lie.

I already responded to your quote with this:

Oh, look, it's an article talking about how a corrupt company purposely arranges its manufacturing in order to control congressional seats.

Lockheed is a huge company, and yes, it is spread out partially for Congressional influence; it is also dependable in it's quality even compared to Boeing, and partly has the spread out plants because it does so many damn things.

What Lockheed does and has expereince in is not something that can really be replicated these days, and yes, there were corruption issues in Lockheed before. Those have been sorted, for the most part, and the quality has not gone down, unlike with Boeing.

It's really like you think the whole of DoD/MIC works like the fucktards who have decided to turn Boeing into a joke.

And I know you saw that post because you replied to it here:


Seriously, when are you gonna leave your neolib beliefs? You claim to have undergone some changes in opinion, but all it seems to have done is pulled your head from the small intestine to the large one. I swear, the only political difference between you and Pelosi at times seems to be the letter next to your name.

And when are you going to pull that ANCAP head out of your own ass and realize the NAP and Libertarian ideology doesn't work, never has, and the who anarchist ideals you follow make this some much more a of joke with you attempting to clap back at me.

Anyone who isn't fucking Rand Paul seems to be Pelosi in your book.

Also, wonderful how you are another asshole trying to emotionally manipulate me into 'I thought you thought this, why haven't you left X behind' bullshit.

Fuck you.

 

[Abhorsen]

Also, wonderful how you are another asshole trying to emotionally manipulate me into 'I thought you thought this, why haven't you left X behind' bullshit.

You sound like the person who complains that every relationship they've ever had ended badly, but never blames themselves. If a lot of people tell you you never changed, it may not be us who is wrong, but you.

It's also funny how quickly you try to resort to (attempted) scare words like ANCAP when you realize that you have no argument. It's a sad attempt at an ad hominem that fails on a number of levels. First, I'm barely arguing libertarian points right now. That you think telling the DoD how to get its shit together is at all ANCAP shows everyone with a wrinkle in their prefrontal how little you understand really anything. Second, an ad hominem doesn't work well when I go "yes, and?" Third, you already used up your quota of "No, you are!" In your first paragraph. Look, libertarians understand that neolibs aren't really playing with a full deck, so we do offer a handicap of allowing kindergarten level debate tactics, but we draw the line at allowing using the same one over and over again. Maybe swap it up with a "sticks and stones" attempt?

 

[Bacle]

You sound like the person who complains that every relationship they've ever had ended badly, but never blames themselves. If a lot of people tell you you never changed, it may not be us who is wrong, but you.

No, I am however someone who has been repeatedly burned, and repeatedly and regularly had large assumptions made about me because my politics don't fit into any neat rhetorical slot, and had many friendships ended since 2016 because people assumed they knew my politics when they did not and decided it was easier to ghost me than be friends with a 'Trump supporter'.

My politics haven't significantly changed, though I've shift Right on some issues; people just kept assuming I am farther right than I am because of how far right this forum in general is.

It's also funny how quickly you try to resort to (attempted) scare words like ANCAP when you realize that you have no argument. It's a sad attempt at an ad hominem that fails on a number of levels. First, I'm barely arguing libertarian points right now. That you think telling the DoD how to getbits shit together is at all ANCAP shows everyone with a wrinkle in their prefrontal how little you understand really anything.

I said that's what I want, for the DoD/MIC to get it's shit together; I never said that is what Lolberts/ANCAPS think.

 

[Rocinante]

No, I am however someone who has been repeatedly burned, and repeatedly and regularly had large assumptions made about me because my politics don't fit into any neat rhetorical slot, and had many friendships ended since 2016 because people assumed they knew my politics when they did not and decided it was easier to ghost me than be friends with a 'Trump supporter'.

My politics haven't significantly changed, though I've shift Right on some issues; people just kept assuming I am farther right than I am because of how far right this forum in general is.

I said that's what I want, for the DoD/MIC to get it's shit together; I never said that is what Lolberts/ANCAPS think.

Bacle, you should at the very least look up "cost plus" contracts and how those work. Because any American supporting those is supporting ripping themselves off.

These contracts are an absolute joke, and if it wasn't for politicians being controlled by a lot of MIC/DoD interests, these kinds of contracts would never happen in the first place.

I'm not saying just go with the cheapest bidder either. You need to consider quality and what they can deliver, too. But cost plus contracts are bullshit that encourage waste and corruption because a lot of money is to me made in fucking around and not delivering the products.

They're a bad deal for the American taxpayers, period.

@Abhorsen is absolutely not wrong with that.

 

[Scottty]

Well, it's all about "Black people first for everything, even if they're clueless morons!" now in SA, isn't it?

No, only some of the time.
Other times it's "Black people only, with preference to loyal ANC cadres, no White people need apply!"
Followed sooner or later by:
"Eish! Why doesn't anything work properly anymore?"
Followed eventually by...
"Please Whitey, come back and fix this!"

And your country is literally falling apart into a failed state.

I wish. I would love to see the Western Cape here become it's own independent country. We could rebuild a functional first-world society here, and let the blacks "transform" and "decolonize" the rest of the former Union until they are back to living in grass huts.
But we'd need to put up an electrified fence or something, to keep them from coming here to mooch off us, then demand to be allowed to vote, all over again.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Just fence would not be enough

"Please Whitey, come back and fix this!"

They actually say please?

 

[Jormungandr]

No, only some of the time.
Other times it's "Black people only, with preference to loyal ANC cadres, no White people need apply!"
Followed sooner or later by:
"Eish! Why doesn't anything work properly anymore?"
Followed eventually by...
"Please Whitey, come back and fix this!"



I wish. I would love to see the Western Cape here become it's own independent country. We could rebuild a functional first-world society here, and let the blacks "transform" and "decolonize" the rest of the former Union until they are back to living in grass huts.
But we'd need to put up an electrified fence or something, to keep them from coming here to mooch off us, then demand to be allowed to vote, all over again.

Well, that's what happened with Zimbabwe: Kicked out all the Whites, then began panicking and begging them to return to fix their shit a few years later.

 

[Zyobot]

 

[Marduk]

Also, it strikes me as hilarious how you were complaining about 'but what if rot sets into the DOD and MIC?' here:

Yet the second someone points out that they are already rotten, you deny that the rot exists, while still worrying about future rot.

Fortunately, I have good news: You will never see any rot in the DOD or their contractors as long as you keep up this mindset!

I think you are onto something, but you are defining the target too tightly.
It's not MIC, however ideologically tempting it is for some people to complain about MIC specifically.
It's a common problem in the whole US, perhaps even western corporate world, of which MIC is merely one part of. It's one of the festering corporate culture problems. The "too big to fail" just love their bloat and can't stop themselves.
Remember all the crazy shit coming out of Twitter since Musk took it over?
Twitter isn't MIC, yet "employees who do hardly anything for big money" was one of the thing that everyone talked about.

As for the procurement system and bureaucracy tied to it, i think everyone agrees it's terrible, especially the military people.

 

[Abhorsen]

I think you are onto something, but you are defining the target too tightly.
It's not MIC, however ideologically tempting it is for some people to complain about MIC specifically.
It's a common problem in the whole US, perhaps even western corporate world, of which MIC is merely one part of. It's one of the festering corporate culture problems. The "too big to fail" just love their bloat and can't stop themselves.
Remember all the crazy shit coming out of Twitter since Musk took it over?
Twitter isn't MIC, yet "employees who do hardly anything for big money" was one of the thing that everyone talked about.

It's not a generic corporate problem that I'm talking about though. This problem is specific to federal contractors, because the origin of the problem is the structure of the contracts and how the contracts are decided.

Yes, there are definitely other companies with layabout workers, but ultimately those company suffers for them. Note that Musk was able to afford to keep Twitter running by cutting staff, and did so. So did other companies who followed his lead. Other companies who haven't done this also suffer because of them. But in cost plus contracts, it's the opposite: a layabout useless employee is an asset! The more you can get the better! Because you want your contract renewed, not completed.

 

[Marduk]

It's not a generic corporate problem that I'm talking about though. This problem is specific to federal contractors, because the origin of the problem is the structure of the contracts and how the contracts are decided.

Yes, there are definitely other companies with layabout workers, but ultimately those company suffers for them. Note that Musk was able to afford to keep Twitter running by cutting staff, and did so. So did other companies who followed his lead. Other companies who haven't done this also suffer because of them. But in cost plus contracts, it's the opposite: a layabout useless employee is an asset! The more you can get the better! Because you want your contract renewed, not completed.

Different logic, but same result. No wonder it happens in government contractors who will have the government cover for the bloat expenses, when somehow even companies that have no such perks develop the same kind of bloat anyway. That's why it sounded to me like just a manifestation of a wider problem.

 

[posh-goofiness]

I worked on a contract like this too. Except not in the MIC, but for USCIS. This shit happens everywhere in the government. I was a sub of a sub of a subcontractor. It was fucking awful. 13 people on my team and there were two people who actually got shit done. When I joined I became the third person doing real work. It was absolutely infuriating to work with people who will just plainly state they're a butt in a seat and nothing else. Fuck federal contracting.

 

[Abhorsen]

Different logic, but same result. No wonder it happens in government contractors who will have the government cover for the bloat expenses, when somehow even companies that have no such perks develop the same kind of bloat anyway. That's why it sounded to me like just a manifestation of a wider problem.

I think it's more that 2 different problem sources are causing similar symptoms. The reason it happened in tech and the like is more that there was cheap money as interest rates were low, combined with a good economy. Generally in those sorts of situations, companies don't look to downsize but rather to expand their market share/competitiveness instead, even in wasteful ways. Then the crunch comes and corrects the stupidity, as cutting costs becomes the easier way to improve profits.

 

[DarthOne]

Tiktok is a plague on humanity