Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[AmosTrask]

I mean, we arr giving them something with 50km less range then a ATACMS

Is that a Pirate joke?

 

[Zachowon]

Is that a Pirate joke?

Now
Just gotta get used to me nit spelling properly on here

 

[Bacle]

A majority of the Dutch population is against EU membership of Ukraine. Now their government wants to enslave said Dutch to die for Ukraine. It’s unstated if Blackrock will take their land after they’ve finished being ethnically cleansed off it by their own government forcing them into the path of Russian artillery, so I’m forced to assume it will.

You are just straight up lying about what the articles actually say, and twisting what they are saying into something it does not.

The Dutch are not reintroducing conscription to send people to Ukraine either, so claiming they are being drafted to be sent under Russian guns is an outright and wholesale fabrication.

This sort of stupid and unnecessarily lying about the situation and inflating articles into rage bait by misleading folks about what they actually say, is rather shameful and pathetic.

 

[Zyobot]

You are just straight up lying about what the articles actually say, and twisting what they are saying into something it does not.

The Dutch are not reintroducing conscription to send people to Ukraine either, so claiming they are being drafted to be sent under Russian guns is an outright and wholesale fabrication.

This sort of stupid and unnecessarily lying about the situation and inflating articles into rage bait by misleading folks about what they actually say, is rather shameful and pathetic.

To be honest, that seems to be a running theme with @Bassoe more generally.

Shoehorning his cynicism into every discussion he can, as well as framing the issues he does talk about as coming down to some variation of either “Corporations will enslave us all!”, “Technology will kill us all!”, or “Look at this cool 4chan or Reddit post I just found!”, rather than discussing the subject at hand earnestly and bringing these points up in cases when it’s actually appropriate to do so. As someone who’s wary about further intervention in Ukraine, I’ll absolutely agree that this habit of his is tiring and makes him come across as a one-track-mind poster, at best.

 

[King Arts]

Victims of cancel culture? Absolutely.

Murdered for going against the state? Not so much.

Again they haven’t been killed but count dankulla was arrested for making a joke it wasn’t even him who did the Nazi salute it was his dog. In China you will face legal sanctions for insulting “emperor Xi” in some western countries you will face legal sanctions for jokes it’s not preventing one person but against many. Being stopped from insulting the dictator in power is less burdensome to the common man then being stopped from making fun of gays.

 

[Zachowon]

You get banned of the internet in China is you hear about Taianniman Square.

Basically, in China, you wouldn't be here right now unless you are a brown noser, part of the 50 cent army, or high ranking member of the CCP.

You would be monitored every second you are online.

If you arnt a poor farmer in the middle of nowhere

 

[King Arts]

You get banned of the internet in China is you hear about Taianniman Square.

Basically, in China, you wouldn't be here right now unless you are a brown noser, part of the 50 cent army, or high ranking member of the CCP.

You would be monitored every second you are online.

If you arnt a poor farmer in the middle of nowhere

I know they ban talking about tienamen square. China does have lots of political oppression (I’m ignoring racist oppression against minorities like Uigers and Tibets now) but they can’t focus on everything so it falls into the same problem as the Imperium China has the most people in the world they can’t watch everyone it’s physically impossible. As long as you aren’t blatantly political you could get away with lots of jokes and other things.

 

[Zachowon]

I know they ban talking about tienamen square. China does have lots of political oppression (I’m ignoring racist oppression against minorities like Uigers and Tibets now) but they can’t focus on everything so it falls into the same problem as the Imperium China has the most people in the world they can’t watch everyone it’s physically impossible. As long as you aren’t blatantly political you could get away with lots of jokes and other things.

They are watching you 24/7. Big brother exists there

 

[Skallagrim]

You are just straight up lying about what the articles actually say, and twisting what they are saying into something it does not.

The Dutch are not reintroducing conscription to send people to Ukraine either, so claiming they are being drafted to be sent under Russian guns is an outright and wholesale fabrication.

This sort of stupid and unnecessarily lying about the situation and inflating articles into rage bait by misleading folks about what they actually say, is rather shameful and pathetic.

Yeah, its definitely bullshit. Source: me actually being Dutch. In reality, there's one politician (the leader of the Christian Democrats) who proposed "bringing back the draft" in the most milquetoast way possible, with like three dozen opt-outs and the possibility of serving it via community service (e.g. working in a retirement home or something) instead.

It's very, very Dutch. To be clear: this is a "draft" that even I woudn't oppose, even though I generally oppose all forms of government coercion. This is so loose, so option-rich, that it might actually be most useful in getting lazy young folks to be useful for a change, rather than this idea having any military application. (I maintain that a draft is crap for that, anyway. You want willing soldiers, if at all possible.)

And still, this is not getting passed any time soon. It's not even a proposal yet. And if it is proposed, it'll take years (possibly decades) of discussions before it is ever implemented. And that'll be because of the politicians, because f you put it to a referendum, I'm pretty sure the Dutch people would vote for it. Overwhelmingly. With the most common argument being "Fuck, this'll actually get those irritating youths off their asses and doing work, instead of doing drugs."

To conclude: nobody in the Netherlands is even talking about it. It was literally a one-off comment by one guy, it passed through the news cycle in a single afternoon.

 

[TheRejectionist]

Yeah, its definitely bullshit. Source: me actually being Dutch. In reality, there's one politician (the leader of the Christian Democrats) who proposed "bringing back the draft" in the most milquetoast way possible, with like three dozen opt-outs and the possibility of serving it via community service (e.g. working in a retirement home or something) instead.

It's very, very Dutch. To be clear: this is a "draft" that even I woudn't oppose, even though I generally oppose all forms of government coercion. This is so loose, so option-rich, that it might actually be most useful in getting lazy young folks to be useful for a change, rather than this idea having any military application. (I maintain that a draft is crap for that, anyway. You want willing soldiers, if at all possible.)

And still, this is not getting passed any time soon. It's not even a proposal yet. And if it is proposed, it'll take years (possibly decades) of discussions before it is ever implemented. And that'll be because of the politicians, because f you put it to a referendum, I'm pretty sure the Dutch people would vote for it. Overwhelmingly. With the most common argument being "Fuck, this'll actually get those irritating youths off their asses and doing work, instead of doing drugs."

To conclude: nobody in the Netherlands is even talking about it. It was literally a one-off comment by one guy, it passed through the news cycle in a single afternoon.

@Skallagrim so wait, Italy's not the only country whose government said "yeah let's bring the draft back" as if that was the normal thing to talk about ?

 

[TheRejectionist]

PS : You were a bit excessively hyperbolic with the slavery thing though.

 

[Skallagrim]

@Skallagrim so wait, Italy's not the only country whose government said "yeah let's bring the draft back" as if that was the normal thing to talk about ?

To my knowledge, it is -- if it indeed did, because I wouldn't know about that one -- since the Dutch government has said no such thing. One Dutch politician said it.

Last week, a Dutch politician also said that we should outlaw petting zoos. Just to give you a frame of reference when it comes to the kind of things Dutch politicians might say, now and then. (And they typically just get ignored.)

It's called a proefballonetje. (Literally: "little testing balloon"). It's something a Dutch politician will "let up" (that is: say) to get attention. All of them do it at least once a month. Most don't make the news. Some make the news, but most of those get ignored within hours. Some actually "hit the mark" and become a talking point. And that is the goal. Because then, the politician who said it gets to go on the evening talk shows, which was the purpose of saying it.

Dutch politics should never be taken seriously. It's just part of the media circus.

 

[TheRejectionist]

To my knowledge, it is -- if it indeed did, because I wouldn't know about that one -- since the Dutch government has said no such thing. One Dutch politician said it.

Same in Italy kinda...few politicians.

Last week, a Dutch politician also said that we should outlaw petting zoos. Just to give you a frame of reference when it comes to the kind of things Dutch politicians might say, now and then. (And they typically just get ignored.)

It's called a proefballonetje. (Literally: "little testing balloon"). It's something a Dutch politician well "let up" (that is: say) to get attention. All of them do it at least once a month. Most don't make the news. Some make the news, but most of those get ignored within hours. Some actually "hit the mark" and become a talking point. And that is the goal. Because then, the politician who said it gets to go on the evening talk shows, which was the purpose of saying it.

Dutch politics should never be taken seriously. It's just part of the media circus.

Dude I learned the hard way with lockdowns and the "pandemic" that this can't be a coincidence.

 

[Buba]

China has the most people in the world

I wonder for how long. India is breathing down China's neck, a mere 50 million or so behind ...

@Skallagrim so wait, Italy's not the only country whose government said "yeah let's bring the draft back" as if that was the normal thing to talk about ?

Some noises to this effect* are coming out from Polish Gov't circles too.
Even though this is an election year, the ruling party's support among the under 25 age cohort is so low that it can make such noises not fearing any further loss of votes

* maybe "testing baloons" or maybe brainfarts - with the Law and Justice party you never know ... yes, I'm biased

 

[King Arts]

They are watching you 24/7. Big brother exists there

I know they don’t have rights and at any time one of their secret police could be looking at you and you wouldn’t know it but they can’t observe everyone all the time. A human secret police is human they have limits . Maybe when AI is invented the AI can be in many places at once and then it would be true panopticon.

 

[Skallagrim]

Same in Italy kinda...few politicians.

Dude I learned the hard way with lockdowns and the "pandemic" that this can't be a coincidence.

from Polish Gov't circles too. Although this is an election year, the ruling party's support among the under 25 age cohort is so low that it can make such noises not fearing any further loss of votes

Yeah, provincial elections are coming up in the Netherlands, too.

These things are related.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

(I maintain that a draft is crap for that, anyway. You want willing soldiers, if at all possible.)

Speaking of soldiers, for what was once a premier military power, I understand the Netherlands doesn't have too many men at arms. Granted, what truly breaks my heart (as an Englishman no less) is what has become of your once mighty navy.

 

[Skallagrim]

Speaking of soldiers, for what was once a premier military power, I understand the Netherlands doesn't have too many men at arms. Granted, what truly breaks my heart (as an Englishman no less) is what has become of your once mighty navy.

Yes, it's quite tragic.

Of course, when it comes to the manufacture of military technology, it's a bit of a different story. We don't tend to call attention to that, but it's actually still a rather prominent national industry.

Lots of older stuff currently being expended in Ukraine, combined with the geo-political situation creating broad support for increased military spending, offers quite attractive prospects for the near future-- both in the sense of our own military getting a bit of an upgrade, and in the sense of... export opportunities.

(Not to mention the possibility of certain construction contracts, when things calm down in Ukraine. The Dutch are very good at infrastructure and general construction. Part of the Dutch government's current "hesitation" regarding future Ukrainian membership of the EU may be viewed as a cynical ploy to get some quid pro quo. We get massive re-building contracts in post-war Ukraine, and they get a Dutch "yes" for EU entry.)

 

[TheRejectionist]

(Not to mention the possibility of certain construction contracts, when things calm down in Ukraine. The Dutch are very good at infrastructure and general construction. Part of the Dutch government's current "hesitation" regarding future Ukrainian membership of the EU may be viewed as a cynical ploy to get some quid pro quo. We get massive re-building contracts in post-war Ukraine, and they get a Dutch "yes" for EU entry.)

I think BlackRock and JP Morgan beat you Dutch mento it.

 

[Buba]

We get massive re-building contracts in post-war Ukraine, and they get a Dutch "yes" for EU entry.)

Ordinary politiking ...