I'm American and I agree with Buba. There are some fuzzy era boundaries and not all eras are agreed upon by everyone, but the Ancient era is pretty much gone when Constantine makes Christianity the official religion of the empire. Or way back with the start of the Helenistic period if you split off the Classical era.
Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
- Thread starter Zachowon
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I knew that.You knew that.Buba knew that.But,we are taking about NYT and their so- called knowledge.
Well,it is good,that they at least knew,that Moscov Patriarch is not catholic.
Yep.Total retards.Seems like NYT to me.
King Arts
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You do realize all of those are the same church right? Romanian Russian Serb Greek Orthodox they all believe the same thing the difference is the language they speak and their geographical boundaries and which patriarch is in charge of what. But the faith is the same. Even if the Russian church obeys the FSB that’s not heresy I don’t think you know what that word means. I’d suggest you look up docetism. The church being corrupt may be bad but that does not deligitimze it otherwise every time a priest is not perfect we’d have to say “oh nope you aren’t baptized or married the priest that married you was taking bribes from intelligence agents or was a rapist.
Yes very convenient for western christians to claim that the Orthodox Church the original church of Christ was killed by the omnipotent communists there was no remnant left. Listen the commies savaged the church but it survived maybe many priests submitted when they should have not but again look up Donatism sorry I messed up earlier I said docetism that’s wrong I think the right heresy I’m referring to is Donatism.
Again it’s complicated first off you’d have to prove the entire church down to the parish priest is corrupt and giving your confession to the FSB. But if you know that a priest is actively doing things that would make him no longer worthy of a priest(this is different than what he did in the past it must be ongoing) then yes you could see them as being invalid and should stay away from them.
I mean we have to define what we mean by ancient if we say it has to be classical era more than 2000 years ago only Christianity itself in the holy land would be able to claim it. But the Orthodox Church in Ukraine has been around since at least 900sI am aware that Christianity east of the Carpathians is ancient, but I refuse to acknowledge such a term for the institution of Kievan Metropolitate of the Moscow Patriarchate. Which, IMO at best dates to 1686, or even the 1990s.
It is complicated, as in the 15th century the Moscow Patriarchate grew out of the Kievan Metropolitate.
But no biggy, this is not a hill I wish to die for
Bingo. The difference is in more... worldly actions of these churches. Like, say, Romanian patriarch and his subordinates probably won't comment in favor of Russian war effort, unlike the Muscovite ones.
What about this kind of stuff?
Russian Orthodox Church: Religion or propaganda of ruscism?
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You won't see the Patriarch of Constantinople or Greece say or support shit like this.
That's the difference.
It survived by making a deal with Stalin. Stalin would not let anyone he thought would do anything less than support his rule have the "reign of souls" in Soviet Union, and by all signs the KGB has kept this policy towards its relationship with the Patriarchate of Moscow for good.
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1.No,problem is that soviet orthodox are part of soviet state - or,to be precise,part of kgb.
Lead by kgb officer,not agent.
2.Of course not,Patriarch of Constantinopole is real one.And those churches who follow him are real churches,not part of kgb.
Buba
A total creep
No.
The quantities are not that large. Also, part of what they receive gets destroyed on the battlefield. After the war Ukraine will have a logistical nightmare of penny packets of different weapon systems, often dusted off aftrer years in storage, hard used in combat by personel hastily trained in its use.
An expensive junkyard which will need to be replaced.
Think - how useful will a dozen or two of e.g. Challenger tanks be?
Scooby Doo
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I find that hard to believe the sheer quantity they've been sent basically depleted America's Javelin Missile reserves. They're getting enough anti tank munitions that I'm surprised if they'd had enough to wipe out America's tanks.
I guess they will keep in service the stuff that remained in larger amounts after the war, while the stuff that got sent in small amounts and/or has no real long term maintenance/upgrade potential will get attritoned/worn down enough that it will necessarily be in right number to place in museums (own and allied) and similar facilities (won't be surprised if after the war Ukraine takes a page from countries like Cambodia and turns to military tourism to make an extra buck, because boy they will need every buck they can get).
Skallagrim
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To be quite honest, though, in the case of the Netherlands (pushing strongly for this), it's mostly motivated by the fact that PM Rutte wants to be seen as the "most reliable -- and loyal -- head of government in Europe", because he's not going to be PM forever, and he wants to be rewarded with a top job later on. (Specifically, it's generally understood that he expects to eventually be named Secretary General of NATO or President of the European Commission.)
There's almost zero passionate sentiment of "we have to help Ukraine!" in the government over here, but a lot of passionate sentiment along the lines of "we can make ourselves look good here!"
I mean, great for Ukraine that they're getting something out of it, but it's very obviously motivated by pure cynicism.
You seem to forget MH17 was a thing, and that the Nederlands has longer term issues with Russia over that, because of how it only happened due to how reckless Russia's pet Donbas militants got reckless with their SAM systems and how Russia helped cover it up and is still continuing to do so.
Skallagrim
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I'm from here, so it's not like I missed it. I can assure you: it doesn't live in the public consciousness anymore. Not even a little. It got some news coverage over the legal proceedings, but nothing else. The anniversary of the Bijlmerramp (three decades ago!) got way, way more attention.
And the government certainly doesn't care. I think you have no image of what Dutch politics are like, but picture the most technocratic bunch of opportunists, who speak in canned platitudes, and have absolutely no empathy for human beings what-so-ever. These people don't give a single fuck about MH17, except insofar as it was once useful to stir up a bit of "we are in this together". Now that it can't do that anymore, it's not mentioned again.
If Russia itself had brought down ten airliners full of Duchmen, but it became popular and politically opportune to advocate for a negotiated peace, Rutte would be right there offering to host the peace talks in the Netherlands.
If that's the case, then my initial arguments still hold for the Baltics, and increasing parts of the Balkans even Serbia is not recognizing Russia's claims to the Donbas or Crimea.
Wagner attempting to recruit Serbs to fight in the invasion of Ukraine has seriously cooled the old relationship between the two nations.
If the Netherlands only helps out Ukraine of cynical political opportunism and not public outcry or legit defense concerns, so be it.
A lot of what it is donating the Netherlands doesn't really seem to really need anymore; the Dutch can easily justify naval and air forces spending. Ground forces outside MPs, coastal defense, and air defense units are kinda superfluous to the defense needs of the Netherlands.
That's just sad.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
Things fade quickly here. Like the fishermen's protests, or the farmers' protests, or the anger about gas field's problems in Groningen, or the subsidies scandal, or the COVID-19 government lies scandal (where Rutte himself "had sadly lost his old phone with the supposedly incriminating texts on it" and "had no active memory" of any of it)... or any of a dozen other things that have been the "big issue" in the last few years, and then just... faded out.
The Netherlands could be considered as the perfect model of the "news cycle society", well-programmed by the 20:00 evening broadcast of the state news agency. This keeps people from getting agitated. It also prevents them from getting passionate about anything.
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