Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Zachowon]

Zelensky Proposes Barring Orthodox Church That Answers to Moscow (Published 2022)

Ukraine’s president called for legislation to prevent an ancient branch of the Orthodox Church, led by a Putin ally, from operating in his country, but it remains unclear how that would work.

www.nytimes.com

Dude, Ukrainian security services have been raiding monastaries and nunnerys. Honestly Nuns are now FSB commandos to you? Listen you tip toe lightly when you do something regarding the Church. If certain priests are doing treason then arrest them, BUT you better fucking believe that we give the bennefit of the doubt to the Church's so the government better have ALL it's ducks in a row.

You do know an informant is just as valuable as actual spies right?
When you have someone who is a Putin ally.
You know they will be giving info to the enemy

 

[King Arts]

The "ancient branch" in the NYT quote makes me puke.
Nothing new - I've always been of the mind that as concerns truthfulness and accuracy NYT is in the same laegue as the Volkischer Beobachter, Pravda, The Guardian or Obi-Wan Kenobi.

What exactly are you complaining about Buba? The orthodox Chruch is ancient yes as opposed to whatever Baptist protestant Church's that exist that are less than 100 years old. The Orthodox Church is the Church of Christ himself the traditions passed down are thousands years old.

You do know an informant is just as valuable as actual spies right?
When you have someone who is a Putin ally.
You know they will be giving info to the enemy

Listen many of these monastaries are far from the front. ALSO THEY ARE MONASTARIES THAT MEANS THAT THEY DON'T GET INVOLVED IN SECULAR AFFAIRS SO THEY WOULD NOT HAVE AS CURRENT UP TO DATE INFORMATION AS EVEN A NORMAL CITIZEN!

Like you are acting like all Ukrainains are 100 percent for this, they are not, the fact that Zelensky has to silence other parties, especially the 2nd largest after himself shows that he is just as much an autocrat as the Chinese.

"Do not ban the UOC" petition appears on the Cabinet of Ministers’ website

The authors of the petition talk about their patriotic position and declare that the UOC faithful do not deserve the stigma of "collaborators" and "FSB agents."

spzh.news

 

[Bacle]

ALSO THEY ARE MONASTARIES THAT MEANS THAT THEY DON'T GET INVOLVED IN SECULAR AFFAIRS SO THEY WOULD NOT HAVE AS CURRENT UP TO DATE INFORMATION AS EVEN A NORMAL CITIZEN!

That you honestly think this, is hilarious, and completely at odds with the known and documented use of Orthodox churches as proxy agents for the FSB.

 

[King Arts]

That you honestly think this, is hilarious, and completely at odds with the known and documented use of Orthodox churches as proxy agents for the FSB.

Are you illiterate? I said monasteries, not Church's. Also while you bitch and complain about the Russians, and the Chinese communists, you seem to act just like them and their liberal masters. Seeing as you have a desire to break the Church for your own whims.

 

[Bacle]

Are you illiterate? I said monasteries, not Church's. Also while you bitch and complain about the Russians, and the Chinese communists, you seem to act just like them and their liberal masters. Seeing as you have a desire to break the Church for your own whims.

Oh yes, let's pretend Orthodox Churches and Monestaries are totally different organizations, and once again ignoring the known ties between the Orthodox churches/monasteries and the FSB.

And no, this isn't about 'breaking the Church' because it's a church, it's about dismantling an FSB proxy disguised as a religious organization.

 

[Zachowon]

Are you illiterate? I said monasteries, not Church's. Also while you bitch and complain about the Russians, and the Chinese communists, you seem to act just like them and their liberal masters. Seeing as you have a desire to break the Church for your own whims.

Do you really think anything run by the enemy is not being used against you, you are ignorant.
If a Chinese owned church, like the people who own it are dual citizens and we go to war with China.
Are we just gonna let the church stay there without barring it from being used?

Zelensky is also a very religious person. From what we can gather

 

[King Arts]

Oh yes, let's pretend Orthodox Churches and Monestaries are totally different organizations, and once again ignoring the known ties between the Orthodox churches/monasteries and the FSB.

And no, this isn't about 'breaking the Church' because it's a church, it's about dismantling an FSB proxy disguised as a religious organization.

You obviously don't know anything about orthodox monastic life. First off Orthodox monastaries unlike Catholic ones aren't a part of the world and don't interact with their laity. They are semi hermits, some of them are full blown hermits. And for nuns it's a bit stricter than that, they don't go out into town and mix with others. So they can't spread "propaganda" or anything like that, because they both stand out with their habits, so if they go anywhere they would be noticed quick that's not what you want in a spy. I swear Bacle if Zelensky pissed in a cup you would hem and haw and praise the "flavor" but if someone who is anti Zelensky gave you pure clear water, even tested it's PH level and gave you proof you'd still look at it strange and say it tastes funny. You say you aren't a liberal but you still seem to have many of the liberal spacebattles oppions from supporting Zelensky to being hostile of religions. In a spacebattles thread didden't you say that Church's that refuse to do gay marriage should lose their tax exempt status?

Do you really think anything run by the enemy is not being used against you, you are ignorant.
If a Chinese owned church, like the people who own it are dual citizens and we go to war with China.
Are we just gonna let the church stay there without barring it from being used?

Zelensky is also a very religious person. From what we can gather

Wow, that's a massive fuck you. If I had doubts about how the Biden administration is cutting funding for our military you dismissed that. How about we bring back internment Korematsu was a great idea!

Also Zelensky is a religious person? I highly doubt Mr. naked in public is faithful to a traditional religion. I've heard he has Jewish ancestry, but he is probably just an atheist Jew considering the naked piano, and other things like support for gay civil unions. But let's say he is religious ok he is an observant Jew who cares, he is not an Orthodox Christian. So he could still be malicious towards them. This is about Christian Orthodox oppression. Would you bring up the shitty argument if it was a Muslim in charge? Also if you think Jews never oppressed anyone let alone Christians boy have you really got to read the Bible.

 

[Zachowon]

You obviously don't know anything about orthodox monastic life. First off Orthodox monastaries unlike Catholic ones aren't a part of the world and don't interact with their laity. They are semi hermits, some of them are full blown hermits. And for nuns it's a bit stricter than that, they don't go out into town and mix with others. So they can't spread "propaganda" or anything like that, because they both stand out with their habits, so if they go anywhere they would be noticed quick that's not what you want in a spy. I swear Bacle if Zelensky pissed in a cup you would hem and haw and praise the "flavor" but if someone who is anti Zelensky gave you pure clear water, even tested it's PH level and gave you proof you'd still look at it strange and say it tastes funny. You say you aren't a liberal but you still seem to have many of the liberal spacebattles oppions from supporting Zelensky to being hostile of religions. In a spacebattles thread didden't you say that Church's that refuse to do gay marriage should lose their tax exempt status?


Wow, that's a massive fuck you. If I had doubts about how the Biden administration is cutting funding for our military you dismissed that. How about we bring back internment Korematsu was a great idea!

Also Zelensky is a religious person? I highly doubt Mr. naked in public is faithful to a traditional religion. I've heard he has Jewish ancestry, but he is probably just an atheist Jew considering the naked piano, and other things like support for gay civil unions. But let's say he is religious ok he is an observant Jew who cares, he is not an Orthodox Christian. So he could still be malicious towards them. This is about Christian Orthodox oppression. Would you bring up the shitty argument if it was a Muslim in charge? Also if you think Jews never oppressed anyone let alone Christians boy have you really got to read the Bible.

Although the UOC-MP claims that ‘any provisions that at least somehow hinted at or indicated the connection with Moscow were excluded’ (following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine) the Russian Orthodox Church ignores this and continues to include UOC-MP clerics in various commissions or working groups despite these individuals not agreeing to this.

Hmmm.
What could be the cause of Zelesnky doing such a thing.
Almost like the church is actively engaged with Russia and it is well known the Russian church is HEAVILY for the invasion.

Wierd...

 

[mrttao]

Hmmm.
What could be the cause of Zelesnky doing such a thing.

The fact he works for globohomo and the destruction of orthodox christianity is his number 1 priority as it is the biggest stream of Christianity that has resisted LBGTQP agenda as well as resisting the mass importation of muslims

The notions that the nuns in the convent are fucking FSB spies is frankly beyond retarded.

 

[Zachowon]

...you do know ow who runs the Ukrainian church right?
Patriarch Kirill...as his church is who controls the Ukrainian oke by having them still be invovled in it.

Almost like, again, when your country is at war you do what is necessary to make sure you don't get bad things happening in it..

 

[King Arts]

Hmmm.
What could be the cause of Zelesnky doing such a thing.
Almost like the church is actively engaged with Russia and it is well known the Russian church is HEAVILY for the invasion.

Wierd...

Cool the Russians are trying to claim that. Doesen't mean that the Ukranian Orthodox Church actually IS a Russian puppet. No offense, but you also aren't that trustworthy. You are an American intelligence agent. America is not a Christian nation so you can't even make the argument that you are sympathetic towards the orthodox but are simply contesting Russian geo political ambitions. All you are doing is following what the DOD says it's goals are, and the US does not have any particular fondness for Christianity. It will gladly abandon Christians to be massacred like it did in Iraq and Syria with ISIS.

...you do know ow who runs the Ukrainian church right?
Patriarch Kirill...as his church is who controls the Ukrainian oke by having them still be invovled in it.

Almost like, again, when your country is at war you do what is necessary to make sure you don't get bad things happening in it..

I just posted the wikipedia article of the guy in charge of the Ukranian Orthodox Church no it's not Kirill. Also your hands aren't any cleaner than Kirill's.

 

[mrttao]

...you do know ow who runs the Ukrainian church right?

Irrelevant.
The pope of the catholic church is a USSR KGB spy sent to infiltrate and destroy it well before the fall of the USSR.
Doesn't mean that every catholic is a USSR agent. Or that we should ban the religion.

You are also conveniently evading literally all the points everyone else has raised.
You do not address how the nuns are supposedly FSB, you do not address the reasons why globohomo wants the orthodox church destroyed. You just keep on repeating the same "but this 1 guy works for putin"

You are an American intelligence agent.

He is an american solider, not an intelligence agent.

One who told me that he is particularly bloodthirsty whom the rest of the soldiers in his units think is a psycho with a huge war boner who just wants to get deployed overseas to kill foreigners. According to what he told me here on TS.

 

[mrttao]

You do know an informant is just as valuable as actual spies right?
When you have someone who is a Putin ally.
You know they will be giving info to the enemy

Clearly what you should is round them all up and then concentrate them in one secure location, a camp if you would, where they can't provide "info" to the enemy as informants.
/sarcasm

Almost like, again, when your country is at war you do what is necessary to make sure you don't get bad things happening in it..

1. Destroying the church IS a bad thing
2. what a total coincidence that the globohomo puppet is "forced" to destroy orthodox christianity to "win the war". Sacrifices had to be made. /sarcasm

 

[Marduk]

Fuck Ukraine also. Both sides have oppressed minorities, Zelensky also arrested priests and monks and nuns, and allowed violence against the church's.

Do you simp for all religious organizations and their members like this, including rainbow flag shitlib churches, commie favoring priests and catholic pedo priests, or only the Moscow headquartered ones?

1. Destroying the church IS a bad thing

It's a church taking orders from the FSB institutionally, destroying it is a good thing when at war with FSB's home country.

2. what a total coincidence that the globohomo puppet is "forced" to destroy orthodox christianity to "win the war". Sacrifices had to be made. /sarcasm

Ukraine has other orthodox churches that aren't being banned FYI.

 

[Buba]

What exactly are you complaining about Buba? The orthodox Chruch is ancient yes as opposed to whatever Baptist protestant Church's that exist that are less than 100 years old.

I am complaining about the ancientness of the "Kievan Metropolite of the Moscow Patriarchate", as it dates to 1686.

 

[King Arts]

Do you simp for all religious organizations and their members like this, including rainbow flag shitlib churches, commie favoring priests and catholic pedo priests, or only the Moscow headquartered ones?

I do simp for the Orthodox Church because it is the true church. I do however make sure to support the Catholics when they are in the right. AKA not pedo ones, but the pedo problem for Catholics is vastly overstated regular public school teachers are more likely to abuse minors in that way, and it's talked about less. As for priests that say pseudo commie talking points they should not be oppressed no. As long as they are real priests and their motivation is based on Christ's teaching, and they aren't just inserting marxist terms as dog whistle.

As for your raindow shitlibs. I said real churchs. Those who are actual Christians who believe in the faith.

It's a church taking orders from the FSB institutionally, destroying it is a good thing when at war with FSB's home country.

Bullshit.

I am complaining about the ancientness of the "Kievan Metropolite of the Moscow Patriarchate", as it dates to 1686.

List of metropolitans and patriarchs of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of metropolitans and patriarchs of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm so you are only counting the eastern orthodox in the Russia/Ukraine region not the tradition from before in Greece/Byzantium? Alright the Kievan Rus adopted Christianity in the 900's. That's over 1000 years ago. It is a old Church, at least 10 times as ancient as most American Church's

 

[Marduk]

I do simp for the Orthodox Church because it is the true church. I do however make sure to support the Catholics when they are in the right. AKA not pedo ones, but the pedo problem for Catholics is vastly overstated regular public school teachers are more likely to abuse minors in that way, and it's talked about less. As for priests that say pseudo commie talking points they should not be oppressed no. As long as they are real priests and their motivation is based on Christ's teaching, and they aren't just inserting marxist terms as dog whistle.

As for your raindow shitlibs. I said real churchs. Those who are actual Christians who believe in the faith.

But why Moscow patriarchate that follows FSB orders? Is following FSB orders proper Christianity or in fact one hell of a heresy?
Why not, say, the Constantinopole one, or any non-state controlled one of this whole bunch?

List of Orthodox Churches

Orthodox Churches (those that use the word "Orthodox" in the name) belong mainly to two groups, Eastern Orthodoxy and Oriental Orthodoxy. Apart from these two groups, some other quite unconnected Churches in the West also call themselves Orthodox. An example is the Celtic Orthodox Church. The...

religion.fandom.com

Bullshit.

Why Do the Russians Trust the Church Set Up By the KGB?

Stalin summoned three bishops and told them he was prepared to legalize the Orthodox Church.

www.newsweek.com

Putin Runs The Russian State--And The Russian Church Too

The Orthodox patriarchate is a bulwark of autocracy.

www.forbes.com

Russian Patriarch 'was KGB spy'

A secret Soviet-era document uncovered in Estonia suggests that Patriarch Alexy II, the head of the Russian Orthodox Church and spiritual leader of tens of millions of Christians, was a fully fledged KGB agent.

www.theguardian.com

Deny all you want, but it's funny how you have no arguments for its political independence.

Would you support a church run by CCP, MI6 or NSA as long as it wasn't overtly woke?

 

[Zachowon]

I do simp for the Orthodox Church because it is the true church. I do however make sure to support the Catholics when they are in the right. AKA not pedo ones, but the pedo problem for Catholics is vastly overstated regular public school teachers are more likely to abuse minors in that way, and it's talked about less. As for priests that say pseudo commie talking points they should not be oppressed no. As long as they are real priests and their motivation is based on Christ's teaching, and they aren't just inserting marxist terms as dog whistle.

As for your raindow shitlibs. I said real churchs. Those who are actual Christians who believe in the faith.


Bullshit.

List of metropolitans and patriarchs of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

List of metropolitans and patriarchs of Kyiv - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hmm so you are only counting the eastern orthodox in the Russia/Ukraine region not the tradition from before in Greece/Byzantium? Alright the Kievan Rus adopted Christianity in the 900's. That's over 1000 years ago. It is a old Church, at least 10 times as ancient as most American Church's

So you support the Russian controlled church then.
Same as the lib and commie churches got it

 

[Buba]

Hmm so you are only counting the eastern orthodox in the Russia/Ukraine region not the tradition from before in Greece/Byzantium?

I am aware that Christianity east of the Carpathians is ancient, but I refuse to acknowledge such a term for the institution of Kievan Metropolitate of the Moscow Patriarchate. Which, IMO at best dates to 1686, or even the 1990s.
It is complicated , as in the 15th century the Moscow Patriarchate grew out of the Kievan Metropolitate.

But no biggy, this is not a hill I wish to die for

 

[ATP]

The "ancient branch" in the NYT quote makes me puke.
Nothing new - I've always been of the mind that as concerns truthfulness and accuracy NYT is in the same laegue as the Volkischer Beobachter, Pravda, The Guardian or Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Well,they are americans.And for americans patriarch site made in 17th or 16th century certainly is ancient.