Tiamat
I've seen the future...
Name them.
Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
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Name them.
DarthOne
☦️
No, I'm on the 'isolationism and if the Europeans want to buy weapons and what have you from the USA, they can pay for them with money instead of getting them for free. Otherwise, what happens on the other side of the Atlantic isn't America's business'.
DarthOne
☦️
How should I know of any? It’s not my area of expertise. But since you clearly know more then I do, by all means, please provide to me how it’s supposedly impossible for Ukraine to get anything nearly as close as what the WEF and Davos are offering from other sources. As that is your contention, is it not?
So, who? International politics aren't a wishing well, there is a finite, and in fact very small pool of options for things like this. And in this case you aren't even being picky about allies, you are being picky about the allies of your allies, smh.
Ironically, Blackrock being a US company of insanely massive size, even by isolationist standards it's a job for USA to make it a non-shitty ally to have.
So you're in the "we'll sulk and stick our head in the sand because we can't have perfect allies that no one has, never had, and never will" camp, congratulations.
And to top off the ridiculousness of your attitude, you ask others to prove a negative.
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DarthOne
☦️
Which is why it will no doubt be easy for you to provide specifics and find evidence that the WEF and Davos are great choices for Ukraine and provide said information to me, correct? And that they’re not just a bunch of money-laundering Globalists who seek to control the world that will screw over Ukraine via GloboHomo initiatives and turn the country into an authoritarian state.
No, I’m in the ‘what Europe does isn’t any of our business’. It’s not about having ‘perfect allies’. Also, since Ukraine isn’t even an ally, but an ally of our allies in a war that isn’t any of our concern, that’s all the more reason why it’s none of our business.
No, I’m asking people to provide evidence that I’m wrong. Instead just saying ‘your wrong, lamo’.
I never said they are great choices. But as everyone is implying, you will never find them a better choice than similar ones, aka western globalist institutions.
You're the one who said they should get better allies, the burden is on you to prove such exist, not on the people who don't think they exist.
They sure will try. Which is still better chances than being conquered by an already existing totalitarian state.
"a war that isn’t any of our concern" is not a designation that can be pinned on anything out of your sheer ignorance of any concerns and unwillingness to learn about them.
Meanwhile in even US right wing circles 2 decades ago, long before current media hoopla:
Ok, prove to me that you're not being mind controlled by agent Yuri to write that.
We have asked you what are the supposed better allies Ukraine is supposed to choose over western globalists, you just go full rhetorical clown and ask us to prove that those allies don't exist, instead of properly defending your argument by pointing at several of such countries and institutions and arguing that they are willing and able to provide sufficient support.
I see you've learn nothing and are still trying to pretend you haven't swallowed massive amount of Ru propaganda, and burden of proof is on you to provide better options than the WEF, not on others to prove a negative.
Also, the 'stick you head in the sand, nothing outside the Western Hemisphere/outside US matters' bit is not a realistic option for anyone living outside AnCap or Far Right echochambers, and the fact is the US does have significant interests in Ukraine, outside the pure humanitarian reason to support the nation.
But you already admitted you aren't an expert in any of this shit, and are just trying to get people to abandon support for Ukraine, and anything outside US borders, and spread shitty, easily debunked memes like an amateur FSB propaganda agent.
Plus, the thing is, people have repeatedly provided evidence to you to show you are wrong about the Ukraine conflict on multiple levels, and you just ignore it or run away from the thread when the evidence pile get too tall for your liking.
Tiamat
I've seen the future...
Dude, note for the record I wasn’t being sarcastic or engaging in name calling, etc. You have a beef with the WEF, fine. Whether or not it’s your area of expertise, I’d assume you might know of a preferable alternative, assuming you know of any.
If there isn’t any alternatives, or any as effective, then what’s Ukraines options at that point? There seem to be some out there, and for the record I’m not insinuating you, that think that Ukrainians should suffer and be “punished” because they chose to defy Putin.
Buba
A total creep
Nobody knows.
Does Putin survive?
So does not?
How is he deposed?
Who grabs power?
Too many possibilities as to guess ... but brazen tealeaf readers are raking in dosh by the spade, I'm sure ...
Ukraine tries to join EU and NATO ASAP.
And yeah, everything else depends on what exactly is happening in Russia at the time. Is the government falling? Did Putin die? Did Putin get overthrown? Is the economy crashing? Is the military rebelling? And so on.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
should that happen russia implodes though to what degree is debatable. they likely won't be more than a regional power after that. Ukraine will be massively in debt to many countries and fail to pay that back for a very long time. as marduk says they try and join NATO and EU. how that goes is quite up in the air. letting them in is a big virtue signal but they are gonna be dead weight from an economic and military standpoint and need propping up and massive investment to fix up infrastructure and economy. that may be a plus for certain predatory types.
Out of these two for NATO they won't be a drag, if anything a country with the 2nd or 3rd largest army in NATO experienced in large scale near peer warfare is worth a lot for training purposes alone.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
they have had a lot of casualties and have had their economy pretty wrecked. their equipment is mostly made outside their nation so their ability to maintain what they got is highly suspect. if Russia falls as hard as many suspect they will on this thread their usefulness as even a staging ground is debatable. how much Nato and the EU would be willing to subsidize them based on that experience is certainly debatable but considering how much of a skinflint Europe tends to be with their defense budgets if Russia isn't a threat anymore I doubt they will invest.
Even with the casualties they still have more experienced soldiers than vast majority of NATO countries without war, and in a conventional war at that, not COIN shit.
The same is true for at least half of NATO.
If Russia becomes a failed state they will be guaranteed some lasting usefulness for that alone.
The "color revolution in Russia" scenario takes away the most utility for Ukraine in NATO, but that on the other hand gives them decent chances of reparations.
NATO generally doesn't throw much money at members due to how it works, even the poor ones, hence it's the less costly option out of the 2, while in the EU it would mandate a big chunk of the development spending and shit.
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kgbstan said,that they do not exist,so they would genocide smartest and turn others into slaves.USA deep state is lesser evil for them
Badly. They're freezing like the Wermacht of WW2 in the siege of Leningrad. Only the few thousand surviving SOF units and high ranked officers have winter gear and supplies. The rest are dying of dysentery, and freezing to death. With no NCOs to direct them in trenches and latrines. The Russians are shitting and pissing where they sleep. Their trenches look like sewage dumps from the air. It's looks even worse from the videos recorded by the soldiers.
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