Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Zachowon]

Yes, the US government being weaker because it stopped illegally spying on its own people is something I wished happened.

... Only he didn't sell secrets to China? That's an outright fabrication. No one alleges that he sold anything. Some (wrongly) argue he gave the secrets to china. What's actually likely happened is that China and Russia stole the info off of journalist laptops. Or even more likely, that they grabbed it straight from the NSA:

China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them.

www.wired.com

Except he did. And no, it wasn't grabbed straight from the NSA.

Sadly this is the main thing about arguing this.
NONE of you, barring a few people on here (Loke @S'task or @The Whispering Monk ot anyone who has been in tje government or in the field know about what he has done. (my mentions may not work as bad area, so if they dint could someone let them knoe?)

Zachowon's opinions on Edward Snowden are based on things he supposedly knows from his job working in intelligence that he refuses to elaborate on; you're not going to convince him that he's wrong.

It's because I fucking can't.
The dude is a tratiro and deserves to be treated as such.

 

[Captain X]

You'd rather the NSA's treachery not have been known then.

 

[Terthna]

It's because I fucking can't.

Then sit down and shut the fuck up; because quite frankly? I do not want to hear it anymore, and I doubt anyone else does either.

 

[Abhorsen]

Except he did. And no, it wasn't grabbed straight from the NSA.

... No one says he sold information. Maybe cite a source that says otherwise? (and if you can't cite a source cause it's class or FOUO/CUI, why the fuck are you commenting on it? That provides free OSINT to the enemy. If so, you've breached security many times over on this site.)

 

[Bacle]

You'd rather the NSA's treachery not have been known then.

Snowden saw what happened to the person who attempted to whistleblow before him, and know the 'whistleblower protection laws' don't mean jack shit if the IC hates you and wants to ruin your life.

I would have preferred he ran to someplace where we don't have an extradition treaty, but weren't a hostile nuclear power like Russia.

In the end I doubt the advantage we lost in the IC community was outweighed by the good Snowden did by exposing the IC abuses going on in the US domestically. The Patriot Act was a horrible overreach, and what was shown in what Snowden let out showed massive breaches of US law and Constitutional limitations in the name of 'safety'.

 

[AmosTrask]

Except he did. And no, it wasn't grabbed straight from the NSA.

Sadly this is the main thing about arguing this.
NONE of you, barring a few people on here (Loke @S'task or @The Whispering Monk ot anyone who has been in tje government or in the field know about what he has done. (my mentions may not work as bad area, so if they dint could someone let them knoe?)

It's because I fucking can't.
The dude is a tratiro and deserves to be treated as such.

Amigo. You aren't even supposed to comment on anything classified or express your opinion. You're insane to think you're anonymous on this forum

 

[Marduk]

In the end I doubt the advantage we lost in the IC community was outweighed by the good Snowden did by exposing the IC abuses going on in the US domestically. The Patriot Act was a horrible overreach, and what was shown in what Snowden let out showed massive breaches of US law and Constitutional limitations in the name of 'safety'.

And what that good was? Did it get the Patriot Act restricted or something?

 

[AmosTrask]

And what that good was? Did it get the Patriot Act restricted or something?

No. Because the voters bent over instead of demanding that it be overturned. Therefore their political representatives did nothing

 

[Bacle]

And what that good was? Did it get the Patriot Act restricted or something?

Well, it was eventually allowed to expire/not be renewed at the end of Trump's term, so in the long run yes.

Because very few lawmakers were trying to campaign on keeping the Patriot Act, because the public hated the overreach, even if the IC loved it, and trying to campaign to keep it would be a career-killer outside the IC echochambers/backrooms.

 

[Marduk]

Well, it was eventually allowed to expire/not be renewed at the end of Trump's term, so in the long run yes.

Because very few lawmakers were trying to campaign on keeping the Patriot Act, because the public hated the overreach, even if the IC loved it, and trying to campaign to keep it would be a career-killer outside the IC echochambers/backrooms.

And did that get the screws on expression and privacy of US citizens loosened compared to 10 years ago?

 

[Captain X]

Snowden saw what happened to the person who attempted to whistleblow before him, and know the 'whistleblower protection laws' don't mean jack shit if the IC hates you and wants to ruin your life.

I would have preferred he ran to someplace where we don't have an extradition treaty, but weren't a hostile nuclear power like Russia.

In the end I doubt the advantage we lost in the IC community was outweighed by the good Snowden did by exposing the IC abuses going on in the US domestically. The Patriot Act was a horrible overreach, and what was shown in what Snowden let out showed massive breaches of US law and Constitutional limitations in the name of 'safety'.

He only ended up in Russia because that's where he happened to be when the US government cancelled his passport. The Obama Administration, mind you.

 

[AmosTrask]

He only ended up in Russia because that's where he happened to be when the US government cancelled his passport. The Obama Administration, mind you.

It doesn't matter what administration finally acted. Treason is treason and there is only one approach possible in dealing with it.

That is unless you wish to commit political suicide.

 

[Captain X]

It doesn't matter what administration finally acted. Treason is treason and there is only one approach possible in dealing with it.

That is unless you wish to commit political suicide.

Snowden did not commit treason, the NSA and the Obama government did.

 

[ShadowsOfParadox]

Snowden did not commit treason, the NSA and the Obama government did.

Two things can be true at the same time.

 

[Bacle]

Snowden did not commit treason, the NSA and the Obama government did.

Bush Jr. as well; it was him and Cheney who wrote and authorized the Patriot Act.

The majority of the Three Letter Agencies in DC are corrupt, and a lot of the current corruption was made easier to hide and easier to pull off because of the Patriot Act.

The only people who still defend the Patriot Act tend to be in the IC itself, and seem to ignore how badly the Patriot Act abuses were viewed by the public at large.

 

[AmosTrask]

Snowden did not commit treason, the NSA and the Obama government did.

Bush Junior, Cheney, Mitch McConnell who helped author and rammed the act into law you mean? I wasn't born yesterday boyo.

The CIA has been doing this crap since the Cold War. Bush just made it easier to hide and justify.

 

[King Arts]

Snowden saw what happened to the person who attempted to whistleblow before him, and know the 'whistleblower protection laws' don't mean jack shit if the IC hates you and wants to ruin your life.

I would have preferred he ran to someplace where we don't have an extradition treaty, but weren't a hostile nuclear power like Russia.

In the end I doubt the advantage we lost in the IC community was outweighed by the good Snowden did by exposing the IC abuses going on in the US domestically. The Patriot Act was a horrible overreach, and what was shown in what Snowden let out showed massive breaches of US law and Constitutional limitations in the name of 'safety'.

Bacle there is no such place. Maybe Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan. But if you truly want to be safe from the US unless they decide to assassinate you at the time you have to go to a nation that is close to America's peer. Either China or Russia.

 

[Vaermina]

So looks like they really are going for the whole 'these areas are now part of Russia' shit.

Edit:



Looks like the Russian's may try something out of Belarus again.

Yes... Let's fold the regions we only partially control into Russia... Nothing bad can possibly come of this...

 

[Bacle]

Bacle there is no such place. Maybe Saudi Arabia, or Pakistan. But if you truly want to be safe from the US unless they decide to assassinate you at the time you have to go to a nation that is close to America's peer. Either China or Russia.

Switzerland does exist, and even the US is not likely to do shady shit if someone publicly seeks asylum there due to political persecution at home.

Snowden is in Russia, which does mean he is likely to end up conscripted into the war in Ukraine. So while he did US citizenry a huge favor by exposing the corruption of our own gov, Putin's stupidity is likely to get Snowden killed in a far more mundane way than any spy vs spy BS.

 

[Bacle]

Well, alrighty then.