Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Marduk]

Yeah, yeah, use 2-3 letters where I can do fine with just one, also, your Polish Catholic Western chauvinism is showing and that is one of the sillies theories about Cyrillic I have ever heard of, it is weirder and more far-fetched than some of ATP's conspiracy theories.

How dare you not assimilate to our culture, you fucking chauvinists!
Poland can pick the fucking Chinese alphabet to write its language in and it's not going to be any of your goddamn business.
And you have the gall to call others chauvinists...
Seems like you are the biggest chauvinist in this thread.

Now, tell me, how many schools for the serfs did your beloved Magnates build and how much time were they willing to let their peasants get educated?

Probably zero, since that would give the peasants tools and ideas that might set them on a path to kicking out the fat, inbred aristocratic parasites.

Dunno, how many did your favorite Muscovite boyars build?

Fun fact, Serfdom is something that came to us after Christianity, prior to that the place was dominated by the Free Slavic Peasant municipality and the rod aka extended family/clan/tribe in the Slavic portion of the country, and a traditional turcic organization among the Bulgars.

And the same for us. Your point being? Should have not converted and wait to get conquered by Germans?

As to alphabets, well, that is probably the easiest part of a language to learn, as long as it is not one of those that use pictograms, although I have no idea how the hell you managed to turn 'ch' into 'cz', we just have 'ч' for that, lol.

Our decision to take in the disciples of St.Cyril and Methodius stemmed from our need to curtail both Byzantine/Greek and Latin influences, the two were already working on a slavic alphabet as part of their mission to Velikomoravia, but were yeeted out by the Papists.That initial version, glagolic, was devised by them because the Byzantines wanted to gain influence and expand Orthodoxy among the Slavs to counter the Pope and gain more allies and because places like Velikomoravia could not be hellenized easily.

So, yeah, the Chad Nationalist/Panslavic Cyrillic vs. the Virgin Knockoff Latin.

Still don't care.

Holy cow, I didn't know that Evil Putler's evil KGBstan controlled the churches of Ukraine, Ethiopia, Greece, etc, etc.

Countries With The Most Orthodox Christians

Rank	Countries With The Largest Orthodox Christian Populations	Orthodox Christians
1	Russia	101 million
2	Ethiopia	36 million
3	Ukraine	35 million
4	Romania	19 million
5	Greece	10 million
6	Serbia	6.7 million
7	Bulgaria	6.2 million
8	Belarus	5.9 million
9	Egypt	3.9 million
10	Georgia	3.8 million

And Putler has made pretty damn clear which of the Orthodox churches will stick around wherever he has anything to say about it.

Nah, just sad and slightly amused on account of your actions, but I do not care about your chauvinistic attitude.

Wow, are you turning into a SJW of some kind? What, are you going to call me racist next?

Yeah, because my ancestors did not save Europe from the Arabs, oh, wait...Khan Tervel, the saint and savior of Europe
What were you Poles doing back then?

Guess anything other than having an empire reaching Constantinople to challenge Arabs there. Sorry, will try to do better next time, if you ask nicely.

We are only and primarily interested in our own history, about a millennia and a half of it, as well as the more important aspects of European history.You and your Baltic buddies don't qualify.
But honestly, the Livonians, the Teutonic order and the rest of them are all the expression of the same old Drang nach Osten.

Likewise. And guess who kicked the Teutonic Order's ass in the end...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_on_the_Ice

>Germans try to conquer stuff under religious banner
Agent23: Why would Poles do this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Muscovite_War_(1609–1618)

You were saying?


Slavic-Viking on Slavic-Viking violence.

Muscovite–Lithuanian Wars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Muscovites, as usual, wanted to expand, and attacked Lithuania.

Main article: Lithuanian-Moscow War (1487—1494)



Expansion of the Russian state, 1500–1626

Ivan III considered himself an heir to the fallen Byzantine Empire and defender of the Eastern Orthodox Church. He proclaimed himself sovereign of all Rus' and claimed patrimonial rights to the former lands of Kievan Rus'.[6] Such ambitions led to the steady growth of Muscovite territory and power. The supremacy of the Golden Horde, known as the "Mongol Yoke," ended in 1480 with the defeat of Ahmed Khan bin Küchük in the Great Stand on the Ugra River. Moscow extended its influence to the Principality of Ryazan in 1456, annexed the Novgorod Republic in 1477, and annexed the Principality of Tver in 1483.[7] Further expansionist goals of Ivan III clashed with the Lithuanian interests.

Around 1486–87, territories along the ill-defined Lithuanian–Muscovite border in the upper reaches of the Oka River were under attack by Moscow[7] and its ally Meñli I Giray, Khan of Crimea.[8] Tensions continued to rise. In August 1492, without declaring war, Ivan III began large military actions: he captured and burned Mtsensk, Lyubutsk, Serpeysk, and Meshchovsk;[9] raided Mosalsk; and attacked the territory of the Dukes of Vyazma.[10] Orthodox nobles began switching sides to Moscow as it promised better protection from military raids and an end to religious discrimination by Catholic Lithuanians. Ivan III officially declared war in 1493, but the conflict soon ended.[10] Grand Duke of Lithuania Alexander Jagiellon sent a delegation to Moscow to negotiate a peace treaty. An "eternal" peace treaty was concluded on February 5, 1494. The agreement marked the first Lithuanian territorial losses to Moscow: the Principality of Vyazma and a sizable region in the upper reaches of the Oka River.[6] The lost area was estimated to be approximately 87,000 km2 (34,000 sq mi).[11] A day before the treaty's official confirmation, Alexander Jagiellon was betrothed to Helena, daughter of Ivan III (the role of the groom was performed by Stanislovas Kęsgaila as Alexander was in Poland).[12]

Moscow attacks Lithuania, and perfidiously at that, without declaring war.

Second war (1500–1503)

Military campaigns in 1500

Hostilities were renewed in May 1500,[13] when Ivan III took advantage of a planned Polish–Hungarian campaign against the Ottoman Empire:[6] While preoccupied with the Ottomans, Poland and Hungary would not assist Lithuania. The pretext was the alleged religious intolerance toward the Orthodox in the Lithuanian court. Helena was forbidden by her father Ivan III to convert to Catholicism, which provided numerous opportunities for Ivan III, as the defender of all Orthodox, to interfere in Lithuanian affairs and rally Orthodox believers.[6]

Poland finally fights Ottomans so you don't whine about it not doing that? Oh well, time for Moscow to invade Lithuania!

Muscovites don't get to complain because they started it, they were aggressively expansionist to the west since even before PLC existed, and once it did, they didn't stop, so naturally all the grudges they have painstakingly built up with Lithuania were inherited there.

Yup, as I said, PLC was highly culturally and religiously cahuvinistic and their little legends about being nice to their serfs were just that, legends.
Their precious Magnate oligarchy worked like any other hereditary oligarchy in history, chopping at the rights and freedoms of the upper and lower orders of society until the state was dysfunctional and the hordes of runaway ex-serfs were gobbling up their territory.

>Poles: we wuz democratic and free.
>Also Poles: we wuz best serfdom, Cossacks were not a thing and they were not escaped Polish serfs that ended up allied with the Russians.Our corrupt oligarchy was best, most free and democratic oligarchy.

Agent23: Polish Magnate Oligarchy sucked because it wasn't as nice to lower classes as republics and democracies centuries later, let's not talk about all the absolute monarchies of the time, especially that especially shitty one to the east, it's westoid propaganda that serfs were escaping from there even to be serfs anywhere to the west!

 

[Agent23]

Please give example - I'm too dim - or tired - to understand what you have in mind.

Tłusty Czwartek the l has something growing around it.

Also:

We got rid of that stuff but we still have some leftovers from the old ones.

 

[Sergeant Foley]

And now the establishment media is comparing Zelenskyy to Churchill. Because apparently Russia isn’t the only nation that can’t move the fuck on from WW2.

What about the Italians? They've moved on quite well.

 

[Buba]

as a catholic enlighten me as to the difference.

As a Catholic you are either "mono" or "uni" identicaly to Orthodox, there is no difference here.
I am incapable of grasping the difference - it make me dribble me poor brains outa me ears.
Do a search for monophysite versus miaphiste and feel your grey cells die ...

Tłusty

Oh, the "barred L".
I Polish "l" is like the e.g. English "l", the "ł" is like л .
Pronounced like "w" in English - Bułgaria.
The city of Łódź can be transcribed into English as "woodge"
The other way around - a "wooden wedge" would be "łuden łedź".

 

[Blasterbot]

Miaphysite adjective
(theology) Of or pertaining to Miaphysitism; maintaining that Christ had a single, though composite, nature.

Monophysite noun
One of a sect, in the ancient church, who maintained that the human and divine in Jesus Christ constituted but one composite nature. Also used adjectively.

ok so I get a bit of the difference there. mia says jesus is both god and human in an inseparable composite nature. Mono says that he is human and divine and that is a single composite nature. I am 8 shots of whiskey and in no condition for a theological discussion but prima faci aren't these the same fucking position? or do we need to track down a better source than the fucking definitions.

edit or is it that the mia comp humie divine is different from the composite of both human and divine because it is a unique condition to jesus alone and just combining divine and human isn't enough. and mono says it is? brain hurts need more drink.

 

[Buba]

I am 8 shots of whiskey and in no condition for a theological discussion but prima faci aren't these the same fucking position?

U so on the money bro! The sober mind recoils from unraveling the difference!

 

[Blasterbot]

U so on the money bro! The sober mind recoils from unraveling the difference!

And there was a conciliatory position between those two, Monothelitism ...

ok so according to a 5 minute search that represents the current official catholic position. the argument being that Mono was emphasizing jesus as a human to much. so presumably that means mia was emphasizing he was god to much. basically it is just saying both of you sit down shut up he was perfect man and god at the same time. 9 shot in so this is clearly how we solve theology.

 

[DarthOne]

What about the Italians? They've moved on quite well.

Last I checked Italy isn’t part of the American mainstream media.

 

[Agent23]

How dare you not assimilate to our culture, you fucking chauvinists!
Poland can pick the fucking Chinese alphabet to write its language in and it's not going to be any of your goddamn business.
And you have the gall to call others chauvinists...
Seems like you are the biggest chauvinist in this thread.

Dunno, how many did your favorite Muscovite boyars build?

Pot meet Kettle.You just love to accuse others of what you do yourself, no?

If you think learning other alphabets is hard because of the wierdness of the Polish one then I'd love for you guys to decide to use Chinese hieroglyphics.

As to schools, well

The Preslav Literary School was the most important literary and cultural centre of the Bulgarian Empire and of all Slavs. A number of prominent Bulgarian writers and scholars worked at the school, including Naum of Preslav until 893; Constantine of Preslav; Joan Ekzarh (also transcr. John the Exarch); and Chernorizets Hrabar, among others. The school was also a centre of translation, mostly of Byzantine authors. Finally, it was a centre of poetry, of painting, and of painted ceramics.

The school developed the Cyrillic script:

Unlike the Churchmen in Ohrid, Preslav scholars were much more dependent upon Greek models and quickly abandoned the Glagolitic scripts in favor of an adaptation of the Greek uncial to the needs of Slavic, which is now known as the Cyrillic alphabet.[1]

The earliest datable Cyrillic inscriptions have been found in the area of Preslav. They have been found in the medieval city itself, and at nearby Patleina Monastery, both in present-day Shumen Province, in the Ravna Monastery and in the Varna Monastery.

In Ravna, an unusually large number of inscriptions in the form of 330 instances of graffiti were found, written in Old Bulgarian and in other languages. Many were written by lay people, and some are obscene. Some were written in both Cyrillic and other alphabets,[2] prompting Umberto Eco to label Ravna "a 10th-century language laboratory". Another impressive body of 10th-century Cyrillic inscriptions has been found in the form of a number of leaden pendants, the bulk of which have also been found in an area in northeastern Bulgaria between Preslav and Varna but also extending north into present-day southeastern Romania.[3]

The Preslav School scriptoria where works were created were scattered over much of present-day northeastern Bulgaria, including churches and monasteries at Preslav, where the remains of 25 churches have been found. Other locations include Pliska, Patleina, Khan Krum, and Chernoglavtsi which are all in present-day Shumen Province; Ravna, in Varna Province; and finally Murfatlar in Dobruja, now in Romania.[4][5]

And the same for us. Your point being? Should have not converted and wait to get conquered by Germans?

Yeah, well, the Krauts still fucked you over, repeatedly.

Still don't care.

And Putler has made pretty damn clear which of the Orthodox churches will stick around wherever he has anything to say about it.

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, putler runs everything...

Wow, are you turning into a SJW of some kind? What, are you going to call me racist next?

That is rich, coming from the dude that called me a communist and keeps attacking the messenger, not the message.
I am curious, are you by any chance one of those people that studies their family tree incessantly?

The type that puffs up like a fish because they have a few drops of blue blood?

Guess anything other than having an empire reaching Constantinople to challenge Arabs there. Sorry, will try to do better next time, if you ask nicely.

A few other Poles and Polish-Bulgarian halfbreeds I know like to chest-beat over Vienna and it is my observation that some of you use that as proof of your Europeanness and superiority, guess what, most of Eastern Europe would have become Muslim without us 1000 years earlier.

Likewise. And guess who kicked the Teutonic Order's ass in the end...

Remind me, when did you lose Prussia, especiallu Konigsberg aka that bit of Russia you get oh so excited over?

>Germans try to conquer stuff under religious banner
Agent23: Why would Poles do this?

Papists try to conquer stuff under religious banner!

Muscovite–Lithuanian Wars - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Muscovites, as usual, wanted to expand, and attacked Lithuania.

Moscow attacks Lithuania, and perfidiously at that, without declaring war.

Once again, somebody is omitting details, like the fact that the Livonians and Teutons played in the creation of the Baltic countries and that they were trying to subjugate Russian cities like Novgorod and Pskov hundreds of years before.

Poland finally fights Ottomans so you don't whine about it not doing that? Oh well, time for Moscow to invade Lithuania!

When "Moskov" was liberating us after we used terrorist PR tactics to guilt trip them into it, 20 000 Poles Joined the Ottoman Bashi-Bozouks...

Muscovites don't get to complain because they started it, they were aggressively expansionist to the west since even before PLC existed, and once it did, they didn't stop, so naturally all the grudges they have painstakingly built up with Lithuania were inherited there.

Their "aggressive expansion" was the reclamation of the lands of the old Kievan Rus and the Moskovites had the dynastic lineage to back their claims.

 

[Buba]

Their "aggressive expansion" was the reclamation of the lands of the old Kievan Rus and the Moskovites had the dynastic lineage to back their claims.

This is theological dispute territory - belief versus belief ...

 

[Agent23]

As a Catholic you are either "mono" or "uni" identicaly to Orthodox, there is no difference here.
I am incapable of grasping the difference - it make me dribble me poor brains outa me ears.
Do a search for monophysite versus miaphiste and feel your grey cells die ...

Oh, the "barred L".
I Polish "l" is like the e.g. English "l", the "ł" is like л .
Pronounced like "w" in English - Bułgaria.
The city of Łódź can be transcribed into English as "woodge"
The other way around - a "wooden wedge" would be "łuden łedź".

л is just l....

This is theological dispute territory - belief versus belief ...

I think the Muskovites had some legitimate claim to all those territories, which weren't exactly in the best of relations with the various Papist-Kraut balitc invaders, also, it was the fucking way the game was played.

And we can argue that Poland started it first:

Bolesław I's intervention in the Kievan succession crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Buba]

л is just l....

OK. I'm used to л in Russian being closer to Polish ł than l.
In simple terms, in Polish:
l=l in English
ł=w in English (so low or law would be phoneticaly written as loł in Polish)
ó=oo in English (u same, Polish likes redundancy and sowing confusion )
ś and ć are English sh and ch, while sz and cz are harsher versions (see below)
szcz is a single letter in Russian Cyrillic - Щ щ - lucky/happy is szczęśliwy
rz sometimes is ż - Ж ж , and sometimes sz - Ш ш
ą and ę - get on youtube, I do not know how to explain ... off to bed ... SNORE ...

And we can argue that Poland started it first:

"Your grandpa stole my grandap's goat!"
"Because your grandpa sold my grandap's a lame dog first!"

 

[Agent23]

OK. I'm used to л in Russian being closer to Polish ł than l.
In simple terms, in Polish:
l=l in English
ł=w in English (so low or law would be phoneticaly written as loł in Polish)
ó=oo in English (u same, Polish likes redundancy and sowing confusion )
ś and ć are English sh and ch, while sz and cz are harsher versions (see below)
szcz is a single letter in Russian Cyrillic - Щ щ - lucky/happy is szczęśliwy
rz sometimes is ż - Ж ж , and sometimes sz - Ш ш

Cyrillic, BULGARIAN CYRILLIC!!!!

I wonder if we can get you guys to adopt it as an official alphabet to spite the Russians, since you'd be adopting the Bulgarian alphabet and thus trolling them.

Also:

From what you are saying it has almost the same pronunciation, aside from the i at the end that makes it a plural.

"Your grandpa stole my grandap's goat!"
"Because your grandpa sold my grandap's a lame dog first!"

Hey, it is tradition, you think I liked when the distant cousins poisoned my dog?

Then I got even by murderizing all their chickens.


It is like that meme I shared a while back, slavs calling slavs that speak almost the same language and live in an identical shitty plattenbau apartment complexes savages. Both hilarious and tragic at the same time.

 

[Marduk]

Pot meet Kettle.You just love to accuse others of what you do yourself, no?

Lol, you started it, guess i'm starting to understand why do you simp for Muscovites - fellow member of "started it, then playing victim because people fight back, then claiming justification to start it again because the other guy dared to fight back the last time" club.

As to schools, well

So why are you such a kek that you ask about schools for peasants specifically, when all you have is one for clergy and whoever paid them for education (aka probably not peasants)?
If we are going to play the games like that, i'll bring up Poland having the 15th oldest university in the world that still exists, way beyond any Orthodox country.

List of oldest universities in continuous operation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, yeah, sure, sure, putler runs everything...

Yeah, yeah, Muscovite church is totally independent.

That is rich, coming from the dude that called me a communist and keeps attacking the messenger, not the message.
I am curious, are you by any chance one of those people that studies their family tree incessantly?

The type that puffs up like a fish because they have a few drops of blue blood?

What, are you going to flex your pure peasant roots on me, while also acting outraged about being compared to communists? Make up your damn mind.

A few other Poles and Polish-Bulgarian halfbreeds I know like to chest-beat over Vienna and it is my observation that some of you use that as proof of your Europeanness and sueriority, guess what, most of Eastern Europe would have become muslim without us 1000 years earlier.

Yeah, sure, maybe you
Did a shitty job of it considering how Constantinopole is Muslim and Vienna isn't.

Remind me, when did you lose Prussia, especiallu Konigsberg aka that bit of Russia you get oh so excited over?

1660. What does that have to do with anything?

Papists try to conquer stuff under religious banner!

I don't think you understand how sovereignty works in papist lands. We're not a caliphate, ok?

Once again, somebody is omitting details, like the fact that the Livonians and Teutons played in the creation of the Baltic countries

And the fuck does that have to do with the fact that Muscovites invaded Lithuania? Do Muscovites get to try conquer any countries they don't completely like the origins of?
Ok then, guess Muscovites can also be conquered on the same grounds.

and that they were trying to subjugate Russian cities like Novgorod and Pskov hundreds of years before.

And Russian princes tried to subjugate the Balts, so fuck them, what is it with you trying to shill Muscovites so hard that you have to go argue for the peacefulness and innocence of the bloody Vikings of all people?

When "Moskov" was liberating us after we used terrorist PR tactics to guilt trip them into it, 20 000 Poles Joined the Ottoman Bashi-Bozouks...

Obviously we care more about fighting Muscovites than about anything to do with you, if you could defeat Arabs then deal with the other aloha snackbars ourselves instead of allying with our enemies.

Their "aggressive expansion" was the reclamation of the lands of the old Kievan Rus and the Moskovites had the dynastic lineage to back their claims.

Typical. Vikings conquered Balt's lands, so Muscovites demand to be allowed to conquer them again because of their relationship with the Vikings, and then wonder why Balts and their allies consider them enemies.

л is just l....



I think the Muskovites had some legitimate claim to all those territories, which weren't exactly in the best of relations with the various Papist-Kraut balitc invaders, also, it was the fucking way the game was played.

And we can argue that Poland started it first:

Bolesław I's intervention in the Kievan succession crisis - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Funny how Moscow needs claims from before Moscow itself even existed as a city, nevermind being a successor to anything.

It occurred when Sviatopolk's father-in-law Bolesław, ruler of Poland, intervened on Sviatopolk's behalf.

And not unjustified intervention at that, perfectly good reason in feudal Europe, get bent.

 

[Buba]

Cyrillic, BULGARIAN CYRILLIC!!!!

Sorry for ambiguity - I meant "Russian variant of Cyrillic".
In Polish
i = И и
y = Ъ ъ ? (in Russian - Ы ы )

 

[AmosTrask]

protest against the inclusion of Ethiopia and Egypt - these Christians are not "Orthodox" but "Eastern". These heretics consider Christ's nature to be "mono" and not "uni" (or the other way around, I never remember ... ), a FUNDAMENTAL difference

As a Catholic you yourself are a Heretic from our point of view. Officially. From their point of view (Old Orthodox) you New Orthodox (I'm pretty sure you fall under this) are the Heretics. Ethiopia and Egypt follow the old Eastern Roman Rites of Christianity. That is to say the original rite

 

[Bacle]

 

[Agent23]

Lol, you started it, guess i'm starting to understand why do you simp for Muscovites - fellow member of "started it, then playing victim because people fight back, then claiming justification to start it again because the other guy dared to fight back the last time" club.

Dude, your double standards and self-righteous indignation would make even Khruschev facepalm, or hit himself with his own shoe!

So why are you such a kek that you ask about schools for peasants specifically, when all you have is one for clergy and whoever paid them for education (aka probably not peasants)?
If we are going to play the games like that, i'll bring up Poland having the 15th oldest university in the world that still exists, way beyond any Orthodox country.

List of oldest universities in continuous operation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So, most universities in the west started as a place to learn religious dogma and only later became secularized.
As to education, well, even under Ottoman Rule and Greek church control and attempts to abolish us as a people we Bulgarians managed to invest into education, with monastery schools helping some of the smarter peasants, and with priests writing pamphlets and gathering the scattered bits and pieces of our history into a popular history book that catalyzed the National Awakening, then during the National Awakening a number of gymnasiums and secular schools were established widely.
And the Ottomans ruled us for longer and were a lot harsher than what you got under the partition, they would have burned the jagellonian university down or turned it into a madrassa.

Yeah, yeah, Muscovite church is totally independent.

Ours is, we fought for that not once, but twice.
And do you actually think that the priests of a national church would go against what is the national zeitgeist?

What, are you going to flex your pure peasant roots on me, while also acting outraged about being compared to communists? Make up your damn mind.

Hey, my ancestors were Kulaks, I hate commies, but I hate aristocrats too, I like Bulgarian style "under the knife all are equal" equality, all a pompous blue blood will get from me is disdain.

Yeah, sure, maybe you
Did a shitty job of it considering how Constantinopole is Muslim and Vienna isn't.

It stayed Islam-free for about 700 years more, Vienna has enough time,I'd wager it will be islamized in the next few decades.

1660. What does that have to do with anything?

Catholicism wasn't that useful and your track record in dealing with the Niemcy is bad.

I don't think you understand how sovereignty works in papist lands. We're not a caliphate, ok?

Dude, one of the articles I linked to literally says that the Pope classified the Northern Crusades as "just as important as those for Palestine"

And the fuck does that have to do with the fact that Muscovites invaded Lithuania? Do Muscovites get to try conquer any countries they don't completely like the origins of?
Ok then, guess Muscovites can also be conquered on the same grounds.

Yeah, your Livonian/Lithwahtseverian buddies mistreating the local Slav population has nothing to do with it, or encroaching on the remnants of Kievan Rus...

And Russian princes tried to subjugate the Balts, so fuck them, what is it with you trying to shill Muscovites so hard that you have to go argue for the peacefulness and innocence of the bloody Vikings of all people?


Obviously we care more about fighting Muscovites than about anything to do with you, if you could defeat Arabs then deal with the other aloha snackbars ourselves instead of allying with our enemies.

Typical. Vikings conquered Balt's lands, so Muscovites demand to be allowed to conquer them again because of their relationship with the Vikings, and then wonder why Balts and their allies consider them enemies.

What Vikings?
The dynasty was started by Variags but the majority of the people were Slavs and it got Slavianized, just like the ancient Turcic Bulgars got slavianized with the help of the same unifying religion.

 

[Buba]

As a Catholic you yourself are a Heretic from our point of view.

"Heretic" was a poorly worded (in bad taste?) attempt at humour. No offense intended. Sorry!
Ooooh - I'm culturally a Catholic, I suppose, but I lean towards dynamic monarchianism.

Rite is not that important, it is AFAIK of tertiary relevance - it is the Dogma that matters, followed at a distance by Doctrine.

I'm not certain if the Eastern Churches merit the name Old Orthodox, breaking away at the Council of Chalcedon in 451.
But I feel I am out of my depth here.

 

[Marduk]

Dude, your double standards and self-righteous indignation would make even Khruschev facepalm, or hit himself with his own shoe!

Did you run out of arguments so that you steal my own now?

So, most universities in the west started as a place to learn religious dogma and only later became secularized.
As to education, well, even under Ottoman Rule and Greek church control and attempts to abolish us as a people we Bulgarians managed to invest into education, with monastery schools helping some of the smarter peasants, and with priests writing pamphlets and gathering the scattered bits and pieces of our history into a popular history book that catalyzed the National Awakening, then during the National Awakening a number of gymnasiums and secular schools were established widely.
And the Ottomans ruled us for longer and were a lot harsher than what you got under the partition, they would have burned the jagellonian university down or turned it into a madrassa.

Ah, yes, monastery schools, great example of secular education for the peasants, go bullshit someone else.

Ours is, we fought for that not once, but twice.
And do you actually think that the priests of a national church would go against what is the national zeitgeist?

Would expect them to at least have mixed opinions on this - they did that even under the bloody Nazis.

Hey, my ancestors were Kulaks, I hate commies, but I hate aristocrats too, I like Bulgarian style "under the knife all are equal" equality, all a pompous blue blood will get from me is disdain.

Ah, so you're just trying to be a cool non-conformist no matter what, at the price of not making any sense.

It stayed Islam-free for about 700 years more, Vienna has enough time,I'd wager it will be islamized in the next few decades.

Still gonna last longer.

Catholicism wasn't that useful and your track record in dealing with the Niemcy is bad.

And a considerable part of this is Germans conspiring with Muscovites against us, so for us it's impossible to separate one threat from another.

Dude, one of the articles I linked to literally says that the Pope classified the Northern Crusades as "just as important as those for Palestine"

And? Poland still kicked the Teutonic Order's ass despite the Pope definitely not being in favor of that happening.

Yeah, your Livonian/Lithwahtseverian buddies mistreating the local Slav population has nothing to do with it, or encroaching on the remnants of Kievan Rus...

More "we conquered it fair and square", what next, you're gonna start calling medieval Balts nazis?

What Vikings?
The dynasty was started by Variags but the majority of the people were Slavs and it got Slavianized, just like the ancient Turcic Bulgars got slavianized with the help of the same unifying religion.

Well tough luck, it was a dynasty, not a democracy, so the Varyags were the sovereigns, not their plebs (what are the chances they asked them for their opinion). Look up who were the native inhabitants of that area before Slavs...
So you are totally fine with Vikings conquering and then ruling Slavs and Balts alike, but you whine about Slavs from Poland ruling Slavs as if they were at least Mongolian invaders, even if they are taking them from under Viking rulers.
What did Sweden do for you to simp for them so much?

But then again, we are so far away from modern history in this that i have to ask, what was the point of you starting this particularly repetitive offtopic shitpost exchange?