Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Jormungandr]

... is this lie still flying around? The British propaganda machine largely manufactured that to demonize the Germans. Remember, the Germans were the ones that built the rules of war framework, and the Germans in WW1 were still within that framework. This was why everyone not on the Eastern Front was flabbergasted at the Holocaust during WW2.

People can't seem to differentiate the First and Second Wars.

In the First, Germany was just like every other country fighting -- hell, their motivations were so uniform that you could just swap the flags around at random and they'd still apply to that swapped country! They weren't evil monsters, and if they are considered monsters by people too dumb enough to understand context, then everyone else --the British, the French, the Italians, the Russians, the Japanese, et cetera-- would've been monsters too by their standards.

Except the Americans -- they came in way too late, did fuck all, and still had the gall to demand a seat at the negotiating table, so they were pretty irrelevant.

The Second World War, however... that was a completely different beast. Mass war crimes, especially by Germany and Japan and (near the end of the War) Russia (Berlin; 'nuff said), organized and industrialized genocides, et cetera.

That's the War when the monsters emerged.

 

[ATP]

... is this lie still flying around? The British propaganda machine largely manufactured that to demonize the Germans. Remember, the Germans were the ones that built the rules of war framework, and the Germans in WW1 were still within that framework. This was why everyone not on the Eastern Front was flabbergasted at the Holocaust during WW2.

Say that to belgian cyvilians killed as "partisants",or poles murdered when german burned city Kalisz,becouse they thought that somebody shoot them.
Yes,they do not rape nuns or bayonetted children,but murdering cyvilians becouse they thought they they could do sometching was german thing.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

It destroys one to think of the Kaiserreich. The advances it made in science and philosophy, whilst its Emperor ruled over a population with disciplined and industrious souls as strong as iron.

Bugger me, the Great War was such a stupid fucking mistake.

 

[Buba]

The wholesale "Rape of Belgium" was a propaganda fabrication. As was the "crucified soldier" or "Hun padlocked to his machinegun" and other like fairy tales for the gullible..
But German soldiers so drunk they thought they were being attacked and burning down towns - that's a fact. Louwin and Kalisz - as mentioned by @ATP - are indisputable.
Mind you - the British, French or Dutch were doing same in their colonies, or in Peking a dozen years earlier. But not whites so it doesn't count.

 

[ATP]

It destroys one to think of the Kaiserreich. The advances it made in science and philosophy, whilst its Emperor ruled over a population with disciplined and industrious souls as strong as iron.

Bugger me, the Great War was such a stupid fucking mistake.

That population was arleady poisoned with volkist mad ideas.They would evolve in some occult shit,like III Reich,if WW1 do not happened.
And,they arleady genocided Herero and beat polish childrens to death for praing in polish.

 

[Buba]

And,they arleady genocided Herero and beat polish childrens to death for praing in polish.

Neither of which is in any way unique to Germany - in the same period USA was genociding its Indians in identical manner, while - as I've already said - European colonial powers were genociding natives left and right. As to children - Welsh and Irish and Breton and Occitanian children say hello and show bruises they got for not speaking English or French at school.

 

[ATP]

Neither of which is in any way unique to Germany - in the same period USA was genociding its Indians in identical manner, while - as I've already said - European colonial powers were genociding natives left and right. As to children - Welsh and Irish and Breton and Occitanian children say hello and show bruises they got for not speaking English or French at school.

You have a point.But - volkist shit was real,and i doubt that germans could heal from that.There would be some occult madman down the road.

 

[strunkenwhite]

You have a point.But - volkist shit was real,and i doubt that germans could heal from that.There would be some occult madman down the road.

I do not think it is appreciated by many alive today how bad things were in immediate postwar Germany. People know that France spent the war being a battlefield. People know about the Russian Revolution, even if they are largely ignorant of the very bloody civil war, plus being ruled by authoritarian communists automatically gives people a hint. But German soil was spared, right? Well.

The British had resorted to a strategy of literally starving the Germans into submission, and it worked, and when the armistice happened it didn't stop right away. Then the German government was toppled amid civil strife, including a communist uprising that (whether it would have followed the Russian example or not) certainly prompted people to fear it would. And it was put down by those who would become tomorrow's fascists. Did I mention the pandemic yet? Oh and the fact that the next decade of political and economic developments would be completely bananas, even by the standards of interwar Europe.

No, I don't think we can take it as a given that the Germans would have been as vulnerable to the appeal of wacky occultism. We can't say they wouldn't have succumbed, but neither can we they would.

 

[Bacle]

If this is accurate... man the Russian officer corps is done with life for a captured commander to just give up all his current information such that his unit gets eviscerated.

The safest place for a (ex)Russian serviceman to be is in Ukrainian captivity or in service in the Free Russian Legion or Russian Volunteer Corp.

 

[Megadeath]

The safest place for a (ex)Russian serviceman to be is in Ukrainian captivity or in service in the Free Russian Legion or Russian Volunteer Corp.

Nah, safest place is the UK. Learn yourself something technical about the equipment and hope the Ukrainians send you there when you wave the white flag.

 

[willdelve4beer]

Yeah, human wave tactics are really convenient for political and military leaders who can't be bothered with things like logistics and strategy. Not so great for disposable meat that gets thrown into the grinder to catch bullets in the presumption that the enemy will run out of ammo before your leadership runs out of poor bullet-catching bastards like you.

 

[Zyobot]

Not that I expect them to pay voluntarily, but I wouldn't be opposed to Russia paying colossal war reparations to Ukraine in the event they lose.

Unfortunately, the only way I see that happening is if Russia collapses in the next few decades (and gets carved up by the West), or if a liberal-democratic government that comes to power is kept on life support by the West (who can then extract reparations on behalf of Ukraine and Eastern Europe in general). Maybe Siberia and its resources would make good real estate, provided we can keep it out of Chinese hands.

 

[Bacle]

Not that I expect them to pay voluntarily, but I wouldn't be opposed to Russia paying colossal war reparations to Ukraine in the event they lose.

Unfortunately, the only way I see that happening is if Russia collapses in the next few decades (and gets carved up by the West), or if a liberal-democratic government that comes to power is kept on life support by the West (who can then extract reparations on behalf of Ukraine and Eastern Europe in general). Maybe Siberia and its resources would make good real estate, provided we can keep it out of Chinese hands.

Just take it out of Russia via trade tariffs and the like; direct war reparations may be hard to get, but punishing the Russian economy for decades via punitive tariffs to pay back the damage done is very viable.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Just take it out of Russia via trade tariffs and the like; direct war reparations may be hard to get, but punishing the Russian economy for decades via punitive tariffs to pay back the damage done is very viable.

I'm pretty sure I just saw that the Ruble is now worth less than a Penny...so...there's that going for them! Also, the shittier their economy gets, the less likely they'll be able to do any sort of reparations.

 

[Bacle]

I'm pretty sure I just saw that the Ruble is now worth less than a Penny...so...there's that going for them! Also, the shittier their economy gets, the less likely they'll be able to do any sort of reparations.

NATO should just accept Konigsberg being returned to Poland in exchange for not levying several centuries worth of tariffs on Russia at the end of this, provided Russia also coughs up the war criminals for prosecution.

If Russia won't do either, than just seize their merchant fleet when it's in international waters, and sell it off to pay the reparations to Ukraine.

Make it so Russian's a hundred years from now are cursing Putin and pals for making them a pariah on par or worse than North Korea.

 

[Zachowon]

Let's make every republic in Russia choose what they want

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Make it so Russian's a hundred years from now are cursing Putin and pals for making them a pariah on par or worse than North Korea.

This is the attitude that led to the Versailles treaty and pushed the German population into getting their own back.

I'm not saying they don't deserve something, but forcing a century of pain, ill will and resentment on the Russians is NOT the way to make the world a better or safer place.

 

[Bacle]

This is the attitude that led to the Versailles treaty and pushed the German population into getting their own back.

I'm not saying they don't deserve something, but forcing a century of pain, ill will and resentment on the Russians is NOT the way to make the world a better or safer place.

Then the Russian population better find a way to unfuck itself internally, because they have fewer friends outside their borders every day and it's pretty much always Russia's fault for that. Treating Russia as an IRL Mordor and Russians as orcs to be contained is safer for it's neighbors and the world in general, if the Russian are unwilling to unfuck themselves and unfuck their culture for real this time.

Also, we would not make the same mistakes of Versailles, and would actually enforce the arms limitations treaties, instead of turning a blind eye to the battleship/pocket-battleship build-up and other treaty violations that went on for years before Hitler ever made a move on Poland. Arms control monitoring for treaty violations has come a long way in the last century.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Brutality in War.

Magnanimity in Victory.

It’s a winning formula.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Let's make every republic in Russia choose what they want

That... would make things worse...

... remember, the collapse of the USSR got us into this god-forsaken mess. If you want to make a persecution complex act like fast-acting cancer, this is how you do it.

Then the Russian population better find a way to unfuck itself internally, because they have fewer friends outside their borders every day and it's pretty much always Russia's fault for that. Treating Russia as an IRL Mordor and Russians as orcs to be contained is safer for it's neighbors and the world in general, if the Russian are unwilling to unfuck themselves and unfuck their culture for real this time.

Also, we would not make the same mistakes of Versailles, and would actually enforce the arms limitations treaties, instead of turning a blind eye to the battleship/pocket-battleship build-up and other treaty violations that went on for years before Hitler ever made a move on Poland. Arms control monitoring for treaty violations has come a long way in the last century.

Here's the problem, reality has been doing a combination of taking plots from fiction and telling fiction to hold its beer far more often than usual. If we pull that sort of thing, it'll make things worse, not better... with one of the more likely scenarios being a Novaya Russia with a bit of Transhuman Space added in.

Yeah, human wave tactics are really convenient for political and military leaders who can't be bothered with things like logistics and strategy. Not so great for disposable meat that gets thrown into the grinder to catch bullets in the presumption that the enemy will run out of ammo before your leadership runs out of poor bullet-catching bastards like you.

It should be noted that some of (modern) warfare's generals were logistics clerks before they got into the big chair. People forget that Grant was a high-level logistics clerk during the American-Mexican War, not a frontline officer like most of the Civil War generals (and, thus, liable for Lee to get into their heads).