Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Marduk

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I oppose this. I think that Russian refugees and also Russians who dislike Putin's regime SHOULD, in fact, be able to move to the West. I support strip-mining Russia of as much of its human capital as possible, especially but not only its working-age human capital, and thus support generously depopulating Russia by having as much of their population as possible move over here to the West. Russian spies would be excluded from this, of course.
As far as nerfing resource curse based authoritarians goes, most of this achieves the contrary effect. Targeting very high skilled labor and similar exceptional individuals at least limits their domestic industry, but the rest just simply gives them the favor of lowering general discontent. After all, if everyone who doesn't like Putin leaves, who remains?
If push comes to shove he has resource revenues to pay for the important stuff (like resource extraction labor, military, underlings), and the less general citizenry, the less people who want a share of these revenues in social programs and infrastructure, leaving more for corruptocrats, military and various schemes.
That sort of dynamic is why most of the shitholes that provide the bulk of unwanted migration to the West don't worry about it. They don't want more people and they don't know what to do with them anyway.
If a shithole's leadership does know what to do with manpower they show that by forbidding it from leaving, in which case helping it leave becomes a potentially valid way to screw with them.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Whatever reason that gets made up for the when. It takes time for ideas considered impossible to one day be possible. Nobody would believe me if I told them the world trade center would one day be destroyed or the Berlin wall would be opened.

Dunno about WTC,but everybody who knew economy was aware that soviets must fall without West support.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Russians have an ability to take pain that is hard to understate, even if their economy implodes this wont stop the war, you have to push Russia much harder and much worse to get them to give up a fight.

Not russians,soviet people.KGB once treated them as shit and they endured.Putin could do the same,and they endure,too.
What you need to break kgbstan is defeating them on battlefield and take all spoils of war.Then Putin would be killed - not by some poor soviet worker,but by KGB dudes who support him now.
And replaced by another KGB colonel.

Nothing could change there.Poor orcs,they do not even have hope for better fate.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Cool story Glowie:
I wasn't wrong was I?
Kherson fell.
And it is on the verge of being retaken.
Kharkiv wasn't taken, yet yall Vatniks were saying it would fall. Kiev didn't fall, yet yall vatniks said it would, and now claim it was a faint. Faints don't get units of veteran force wiped out because of ineptitude.
Then the whole Odessa is the main goal, yet they are not making any progress there.

I laugh at you trying to say "okay glowie" when I was right more times then you were.


You are just crying that your running low on cope as Russia has stalled
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Kherson is on the verge of being retaken for the last two months, with Ukrainian forces repeatedly liberating the same pieces of territory outside the city time and time again.
I mean, not really? They have been moving, and are making advances on one if the outer rivers.
With Russians having too, rearm from further away.
 

AnimalNoodles

Well-known member
I wasn't wrong was I?
Kherson fell.
And it is on the verge of being retaken.
Kharkiv wasn't taken, yet yall Vatniks were saying it would fall. Kiev didn't fall, yet yall vatniks said it would, and now claim it was a faint. Faints don't get units of veteran force wiped out because of ineptitude.
Then the whole Odessa is the main goal, yet they are not making any progress there.

I laugh at you trying to say "okay glowie" when I was right more times then you were.


You are just crying that your running low on cope as Russia has stalled

The Ukrainians are no where even close to retaking Kherson
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
As far as nerfing resource curse based authoritarians goes, most of this achieves the contrary effect. Targeting very high skilled labor and similar exceptional individuals at least limits their domestic industry, but the rest just simply gives them the favor of lowering general discontent. After all, if everyone who doesn't like Putin leaves, who remains?
If push comes to shove he has resource revenues to pay for the important stuff (like resource extraction labor, military, underlings), and the less general citizenry, the less people who want a share of these revenues in social programs and infrastructure, leaving more for corruptocrats, military and various schemes.
That sort of dynamic is why most of the shitholes that provide the bulk of unwanted migration to the West don't worry about it. They don't want more people and they don't know what to do with them anyway.
If a shithole's leadership does know what to do with manpower they show that by forbidding it from leaving, in which case helping it leave becomes a potentially valid way to screw with them.

I'd go a step farther than that, actually; taking away the rest ensures that they will not be capable of having as large of a military as they would otherwise have due to them having less warm and healthy bodies to fill it with. We do want the Russian military to become weaker, after all.

But Yeah, migration is a double-edged word. A regime can be hurt by migration if it's being stripped of its smart and capable people, but it can also be helped by migration if it's being stripped of its potential troublemakers.
 

Marduk

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I'd go a step farther than that, actually; taking away the rest ensures that they will not be capable of having as large of a military as they would otherwise have due to them having less warm and healthy bodies to fill it with. We do want the Russian military to become weaker, after all.
The people who join are either lack the will or skills to move to the West.
But Yeah, migration is a double-edged word. A regime can be hurt by migration if it's being stripped of its smart and capable people, but it can also be helped by migration if it's being stripped of its potential troublemakers.
Yeah, that's the point, "own the dictators by giving them a free safety vent for malcontents" is not exactly a smart strategy. It may work for truly terrible and shitpoor countries like North Korea, but as long as Russia has Siberia and the Far East, it has money to staff the important positions, just like Saudi Arabia does.
Consider the following - these countries spend massive amounts of skilled manpower and political capital, internal and external, to oppress their internal political oppositions. How could they not love it if most of that opposition would just leave in peace, no questions asked, because of all countries the ones they consider enemies are essentially bribing them to do so?
 

WolfBear

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The people who join are either lack the will or skills to move to the West.

Yeah, that's the point, "own the dictators by giving them a free safety vent for malcontents" is not exactly a smart strategy. It may work for truly terrible and shitpoor countries like North Korea, but as long as Russia has Siberia and the Far East, it has money to staff the important positions, just like Saudi Arabia does.
Consider the following - these countries spend massive amounts of skilled manpower and political capital, internal and external, to oppress their internal political oppositions. How could they not love it if most of that opposition would just leave in peace, no questions asked, because of all countries the ones they consider enemies are essentially bribing them to do so?

And having the West accept unskilled immigrants is so horrible, just so long as it doesn't overdo it? Some internal EU migration has been of unskilled workers, after all.

They would like it very much, no doubt. The problem that I fear is that most Russians are so brainwashed that it would take a while to get a positive change movement going there either way, regardless of whether the dissidents stay or leave. Staying does expose dissidents to the risk of getting poisoned, murdered, et cetera by Putin's thugs, however.
 

Marduk

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And having the West accept unskilled immigrants is so horrible, just so long as it doesn't overdo it? Some internal EU migration has been of unskilled workers, after all.
Yes. The West has too much of that as it is, and internal EU is the least of an issue of all options because EU is made of a select group of countries, not random shitholes with savage customs and nonexistent economies.
They would like it very much, no doubt. The problem that I fear is that most Russians are so brainwashed that it would take a while to get a positive change movement going there either way, regardless of whether the dissidents stay or leave. Staying does expose dissidents to the risk of getting poisoned, murdered, et cetera by Putin's thugs, however.
In that case you don't want these brainwashed Russians in the West either, in some weird redo of problems with Erdogan fanboy Turks in Germany and Netherlands.

A little poverty and shitty governance does a lot of work in undoing brainwashing, and the more people they have to brainwash and bribe, the less resources they have for both per target.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Yes. The West has too much of that as it is, and internal EU is the least of an issue of all options because EU is made of a select group of countries, not random shitholes with savage customs and nonexistent economies.

In that case you don't want these brainwashed Russians in the West either, in some weird redo of problems with Erdogan fanboy Turks in Germany and Netherlands.

A little poverty and shitty governance does a lot of work in undoing brainwashing, and the more people they have to brainwash and bribe, the less resources they have for both per target.

Is Russia much more of a shitole than Poland or Romania or Bulgaria are?

The brainwashed Russians might be less likely to emigrate in the first place. And it's easier to become de-brainwashed if you live in another country. Just look at this woman:


I'm not so sure about the last part here since Stalin treated Soviet people like absolute shit and yet a lot of Russians even nowadays still worship him.
 

TheRomanSlayer

Unipolarity is for Subhuman Trogdolytes
Another problem is, their kind of experience with Western style democracy was shaped by the Yeltsin years, which is notoriously known for a crap ton of corruption and gangsterism, along with the two Chechen Wars. Basically, the 90s was to the Russians what the Weimar Republic was to Germans, so Yeltsin also had the unfortunate role of being the Russian Hindenburg, giving support to the man who would now be labeled as Putler. One could take so much unbridled crap before developing a craving for unhealthy political systems, and it's about to repeat everywhere too.
 

WolfBear

Well-known member
Putin going all in pseudo-Woke:

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Well, Russia is the number one killer of white people today, and in the last 300 years only behind Germany, so it kinda makes sense

Russians also began acting like Muslims as a result of this war when they began embracing martyr-worship again lol! :D

If Russia loves people of color (POC) so much, it is very welcome to admit them to Russia as immigrants by the hundreds of millions, if necessary over a 50 or 100 year time period. Yet POC love Russia but want to move to the West rather than to Russia. It's almost as if a lot of POC actually miss white Western rule lol!
 

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