Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Arch Dornan]

What.
It is a WASTE as in to use one for such a stupid purpose.
Why waste something you don't have mass produced when they can be supplied with more of then then you can of the missle..

Someone there did or they made it up. Stupid purposes with expensive doohickeys have happened before like the V2 rockets.

When I said more's coming I meant the supply shipments if you think I meant more of those hypersonic missiles.

 

[Zachowon]

Someone there did or they made it up. Stupid purposes with expensive doohickeys have happened before like the V2 rockets.

When I said more's coming I meant the supply shipments if you think I meant more of those hypersonic missiles.

If they wrrr willing to waste prototype why no T14

 

[Arch Dornan]

If they wrrr willing to waste prototype why no T14

I don't know. I'm not in their planning room to know why they did the decisions they did.

 

[Zachowon]

I don't know. I'm not in their planning room to know why they did the decisions they did.

Uts obvious.
They didnt

 

[Arch Dornan]

Uts obvious.
They didnt

Didn't what?

If it's the missile's usage your government claims a positive even CNN agrees.

The best hyped up equipment I heard captured was some radar vehicle not that tank you mentioned.

 

[Zachowon]

Didn't what?

If it's the missile's usage your government claims a positive even CNN agrees.

The best hyped up equipment I heard captured was some radar vehicle not that tank you mentioned.

...
Because they havnt brought T14s into the field because they don't have enough

Where does my government say that?
I have not seen anyone saying they have just that it I'd rumored they used them last month

 

[Agent23]

Someone there did or they made it up. Stupid purposes with expensive doohickeys have happened before like the V2 rockets.

When I said more's coming I meant the supply shipments if you think I meant more of those hypersonic missiles.

Or maybe the use of hypersonic missiles is a combination statement of intent/live test under battlefield conditions.
Or do you think it is a good idea to mass produce weapons with only a few test launches under controlled conditions?

 

[Agent23]

You claimed,that they decided to not win to let West pour weapons there,so KGB could destroy that.Seems like some Illuminati plan to me.

But - No,they are not.Probably they are idiots who are unable to win war they started and achieve anything except finally taking Marjupol in next month.But,i really want to belive,that it is part of secret KGB plot to ,if not take over Europe,at least destroy russian army.
Becouse i feared KGB for long time,and it would be sad if i feared idiots.

I am theorizing here.I honestly have no idea what is going on in Putin's head or what extra strategic objectives or suddenly presented objectives of opportunity might pop up.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Or maybe the use of hypersonic missiles is a combination statement of intent/live test under battlefield conditions.
Or do you think it is a good idea to mass produce weapons with only a few test launches under controlled conditions?

No that was what they officially stated and it is believable when in any war they tend to test out new toys as the situation applies.

 

[Zachowon]

No that was what they officially stated and it is believable when in any war they tend to test out new toys as the situation applies.

You don't test out things you literally do not have the money to replace

 

[sillygoose]

Welp this happened.

Random youtuber claimed it, so it is automatically true?

You don't test out things you literally do not have the money to replace

Don't have the money according to whom? I remember being told the Russians would run out of ammo in 3 days back in early March. Yet here we are. Frankly anything anyone from the West says about Russia's ability to do anything is suspect in the extreme.

 

[Vaermina]

You don't test out things you literally do not have the money to replace.

Given Russia has been cut off from access to high end electronics, they probably don't have the ability to replace them even if the money existed.

 

[ATP]

I am theorizing here.I honestly have no idea what is going on in Putin's head or what extra strategic objectives or suddenly presented objectives of opportunity might pop up.

Of course not,only psycho could knew what other psycho think,and you are normal.
But,we have few possibilities:
1.Putin really buy his own propaganda and expected ukrainian just to surrender and become soviet people again.
2.He made deal with USA swamp for long war - democrats would have chance to win elections,and he could kill russian army
3.He only want destroy Ukraine and kill russian army.
4.He want West to send weapons there,destroy it - as you said - and,after few months/years,attack NATO and take Warsaw in 3 days,becouse all polish weapons would be on Ukraine.Half of russian army would die,but - his idol,Sralin,killed most od soviet army,and still win.

Any other theory?

 

[planefag]

Or maybe the use of hypersonic missiles is a combination statement of intent/live test under battlefield conditions.
Or do you think it is a good idea to mass produce weapons with only a few test launches under controlled conditions?

The hYpeRsOniC mIsSIle they used was just an Iskander ballistic missile launched from a plane.

That's it. That's literally all it is. Ballistic missiles have always been hypersonic. The fucking V-2 was hypersonic. Everyone has to get this through their domes because it's fucking important - "hypersonics" fall broadly into one of two categories:

1. Ballistic missile, but fancy. The latest hotness is a ~hypersonic glide vehicle~ to let the warhead coast in at low level for the final run so it avoids the biggest drawback of ballistic missiles; that they come in high, wide and handsome. (Since they were so fast this was enough to protect them until ABM systems got better, and better, and better...) This isn't really new either - the Apollo command module and the fucking shuttle were technically both "hypersonic glide vehicles" as well, because they could steer during re-entry. This isn't new tech as applied to weapons, either; any ballistic missile with some extra fins in the right places can use some energy to do slight evasive maneuvers. Iskander falls into this category. It's called MAneuvering Re-entry Vehicle, MARV.

These missiles are nice and all but suffer all the usual problems of ballistic missiles -i.e. since they're rockets, which have to take all their oxidizer with them, they're fucking big and heavy (oxidizer is 66% or so of the resources required for combustion.) This makes them big and easy to target, and hard to project power with - you either need to base them somewhere on land (lol basing rights omg etc) or make them bigger and bigger and that shit gets expensive fast. It is literally rocket science.

2. Air-breathing hypersonics. This is the ground-breaking very scary shit; scramjets and stuff. These weapons get their oxidizer from the air, for free. You know, like thermobaric weapons do. Extrapolate from there. This is the technology that allows for missiles you can actually fit into VLS cells in numbers, or under planes without making them look like a whale nursing its calf ala the Khinzal. Incidentally, the nation that built the Bell X-15 in the 60s? Still the tech leader in this shit.

Russia claims to have one of these - the "Zircon." Incidentally, we've never seen actual clear video of this mythic weapon in action. Becuase it's total bullshit.

So now you all know.

 

[Terthna]

Of course not,only psycho could knew what other psycho think,and you are normal.
But,we have few possibilities:
1.Putin really buy his own propaganda and expected ukrainian just to surrender and become soviet people again.
2.He made deal with USA swamp for long war - democrats would have chance to win elections,and he could kill russian army
3.He only want destroy Ukraine and kill russian army.
4.He want West to send weapons there,destroy it - as you said - and,after few months/years,attack NATO and take Warsaw in 3 days,becouse all polish weapons would be on Ukraine.Half of russian army would die,but - his idol,Sralin,killed most od soviet army,and still win.

Any other theory?

The invasion could have also been completely reactionary, due to bad or manufactured intel. Intel that may have told him, for example, that Ukraine was about to get nukes. There may be no overarching plan; at least, not on the part of Putin and Russia.

 

[Arch Dornan]

The hYpeRsOniC mIsSIle they used was just an Iskander ballistic missile launched from a plane.

That's it. That's literally all it is. Ballistic missiles have always been hypersonic. The fucking V-2 was hypersonic. Everyone has to get this through their domes because it's fucking important - "hypersonics" fall broadly into one of two categories:

1. Ballistic missile, but fancy. The latest hotness is a ~hypersonic glide vehicle~ to let the warhead coast in at low level for the final run so it avoids the biggest drawback of ballistic missiles; that they come in high, wide and handsome. (Since they were so fast this was enough to protect them until ABM systems got better, and better, and better...) This isn't really new either - the Apollo command module and the fucking shuttle were technically both "hypersonic glide vehicles" as well, because they could steer during re-entry. This isn't new tech as applied to weapons, either; any ballistic missile with some extra fins in the right places can use some energy to do slight evasive maneuvers. Iskander falls into this category. It's called MAneuvering Re-entry Vehicle, MARV.

These missiles are nice and all but suffer all the usual problems of ballistic missiles -i.e. since they're rockets, which have to take all their oxidizer with them, they're fucking big and heavy (oxidizer is 66% or so of the resources required for combustion.) This makes them big and easy to target, and hard to project power with - you either need to base them somewhere on land (lol basing rights omg etc) or make them bigger and bigger and that shit gets expensive fast. It is literally rocket science.

2. Air-breathing hypersonics. This is the ground-breaking very scary shit; scramjets and stuff. These weapons get their oxidizer from the air, for free. You know, like thermobaric weapons do. Extrapolate from there. This is the technology that allows for missiles you can actually fit into VLS cells in numbers, or under planes without making them look like a whale nursing its calf ala the Khinzal. Incidentally, the nation that built the Bell X-15 in the 60s? Still the tech leader in this shit.

Russia claims to have one of these - the "Zircon." Incidentally, we've never seen actual clear video of this mythic weapon in action. Becuase it's total bullshit.

So now you all know.

I really don't. It's just a fancy way of saying a missile was launched without any mentions of special ordnance.

Plus spreading fear about it means easy support for the defense industry to get funding.

 

[Arch Dornan]

The invasion could have also been completely reactionary, due to bad or manufactured intel. Intel that may have told him, for example, that Ukraine was about to get nukes. There may be no overarching plan; at least, not on the part of Putin and Russia.

I believe he struck first out of a belief that elements in Ukraine like Azov were in favor of preparing to take back what he took with his little green men and then commit political targeted massacres to those they see as colloborators and traitors there.

 

[planefag]

Plus spreading fear about it means easy support for the defense industry to get funding.

What in hell makes you think they give a fuck about our opinions? Our Senators sure as hell don't!

 

[Bacle]

The invasion could have also been completely reactionary, due to bad or manufactured intel. Intel that may have told him, for example, that Ukraine was about to get nukes. There may be no overarching plan; at least, not on the part of Putin and Russia.

I believe he struck first out of a belief that elements in Ukraine like Azov were in favor of preparing to take back what he took with his little green men and then commit political targeted massacres to those they see as colloborators and traitors there.

I think the reason the invasion happened now is because the draftable age population in Russia is only getting smaller, and the longer Putin waited to initiate any large military operations the fewer troops he'd have. If he waited even a year his number of usable conscripts would be significantly lower than it is now.

The oil in Donbass and Crimea, along with the rich farmlands and nuclear power stations, meant if Putin could blyatkrieg his way to Kyiv is a few days and install a friendly gov, he could get a lot of returns for a relatively small amount of force.

However, Putin's advisor's are few and the FSB purge that happened sounds like it happened because the FSB higher ups were ignoring/downplaying their subordinate's evaluations of Ukraine's defenses and/or western attitudes towards Ukraine.

The Russian's have already devolved back to the 'denouncement for treason as petty revenge' shit internally and they cannot make their newer weapons systems because Taiwan is not selling chips to them anymore. Their only tank manufacturer shut down, because Russia imported most of their components from other countries; some of their tank guns came from France, for example.

The excuses about the biolabs, which frankly seems to be a red herring based of fears from Wuhan, and the uncomfortable truth about Azov, are more or less just window dressing for both a demographic crunch forcing combat now and the basic greed over the oil deposits added to it.

 

[planefag]

You mean that jackass who is just aggregating a bunch of unverified twitter posts? This is why you're not taken seriously by anyone but the Ukraini-stans.

"I do not believe pictures of blown-up tanks I can see with my own fucking eyes. I only believe it if someone TELLS me it's legit!"

lmfao take a hike clown