United States Trump v Kamala Harris 2024

[Skitzyfrenic]

I think that they can't not go to Kamala. They're basically running her right now anyways unless there was going to be a VP switch. No way Biden doesn't fall apart in a second term or die outright.

And think of the Black Woman backlash if Black Woman VP is skipped over for a white man? Oof. Might end up be worse for the Dems than trying to puppet Kamala.

Basically Kamala or Mike, I think. And Mike has allegedly indicated that she wouldn't.

 

[Poe]

I honestly think this might be the tipping point. If Biden stays on the ticket and Trump wins I really do think this will be the point the Democratic Party will rip itself apart. The cracks showed in 2016 but this might cause the fissures to erupt.

Yep this is exactly what is going to happen. It's gonna be fantastic

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Aren't the Democrats pretty much splintered already? I seem to recall that there's also one group called the Justice Democrats.

 

[ParadiseLost]

Honestly, the thing I can't get out of my head is the idea that all this is happening WAY too fucking fast.

A month ago the media treated Biden's mental health problems as a conspiracy theory. Now there are mass calls for him stepping down, and all the big name news outlets and celebrities and politicians are calling for him to step aside.

And we're really buying just one debate caused this massive turn around?

I don't think this is really about Joe's Parkinson's or dementia or whatever. I think this is planned.

 

[nemo1986]

Aren't the Democrats pretty much splintered already? I seem to recall that there's also one group called the Justice Democrats.

That is just internal divisions where they generally remain allied and at least pay lip service to the hierarchy. I'm talking full on groups splintering off and forming their own parties or joining other ones. I mean literally rip itself apart.

 

[Blasterbot]

Honestly, the thing I can't get out of my head is the idea that all this is happening WAY too fucking fast.

A month ago the media treated Biden's mental health problems as a conspiracy theory. Now there are mass calls for him stepping down, and all the big name news outlets and celebrities and politicians are calling for him to step aside.

And we're really buying just one debate caused this massive turn around?

I don't think this is really about Joe's Parkinson's or dementia or whatever. I think this is planned.

When it comes to degenerative Mental illness like Alzheimer's and Parkinson's it starts slow and ramps up. Joe was bad in 2020 but they could cover it up. it got worse and worse faster and faster. now they can't trot him out for 5 minutes even in his good hours before he sun downs a few hours into his day. this is one situation where the conspiracy to cover it up failed because it was too big an ask.

Trump was slowly eking ahead in the polls before this debate. this wasn't people flipping and doing a turnaround. this was the final nail in the coffin. the emperor has no clothes. anyone who cares can't lie to themselves about his fitness. only the most partisan can try and claim and their main line of attack is gaslighting by saying Trump's worse with his dementia. The Dems wanted Joe because their own party is too divided to have a good coalition leader.

Joe carried the primary by virtue of incumbency. but he was already relatively unpopular for an incumbent. even more than Trump was. and with a much less solid floor of support. his policies have been generally bad. his promise to be a uniter only counts if you say he united America in disliking him. Joe has always been an Asshole. his friendly old man image as Obama's VP was manufactured and had cracks in it from day one. He has always been a liar and a plagerizer. He can no longer distinguish what his lies were and what was the truth. He has always been corrupt. His families wealth has always depended on him. and he handed over whatever advantage he could to his kin. He has alway been willing to use his tragedies in life to advance his politics. look at his photo Op in the hospital with his sons after the car accident that took his wife and daughter's life. Now he has to bring up Beau Biden in every possible point to generate sympathy.

Every one of his old flaws are getting worse and worse and only low info voters could ignore that. The establishment wing of the DNC has no heir. Newsome was polling worse than Biden's pre debate numbers. California's policies are radioactive outside of the state. Kamala is a huge road block and is still below biden in polularity. let that sink in. that is how awful she is. and she controls the Biden campaigns purse if you knock him out. she won't step out of the way and the optics of passing over the first black woman president will kill you in one of your few solid demographics. The establishment will by hook or crook do everything they can to keep a progressive out of the seat. see 2016, 2020, and how they ran the primary in 2024. they will kill either their progressive block by ignoring them again or their moderate wing by putting in someone calling the Isreal/Gaza conflict a genocide.

this is their arrogance and unwillingness to address the reality of who is in their party and how their policies have impacted their constituents. they have only ever had a weak tether of control over their far left wing of the party. and they are gonna have to make the choice of whether to let them go or get dragged along for the ride if they don't stick with Joe. The establishment types love kicking the can down the road so someone else has to be responsible for fixing the mess. it is blowing up in their faces.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

What completely flipped the script was the fact that Trump, in a complete reversal of expectations, managed to play a shrewd game. He kept quiet and let Biden effectively destroy himself, then kept quiet and refuse to give the media anything to distract people with.

Calling Trump for a debate where he isn't allowed to make a fool out of himself might well have been the stupidest thing the Dems did in the 21st century. They let their desire to humiliate Trump override their pragmatism.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

off topic, but to be completely frank, I'm not sure where I fall in the right-left pendulum. I see communism as just feudalism wrapped in a new package, but at the same time I'm not sure How much I believe in the middle "Good ol middle class merican values." as time goes by I find myself having the heart of a tribalman and barbarian at heart.

 

[Bigking321]

Definitely more on the right then. It's a broad brush but freedom, individualism, and wanting to be left alone by a intrusive government seem to be common values there.

Currently the left is entirely about being authoritarian. They have their values and want to enforce them on everyone else and get rid of those that disagree.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Definitely more on the right then. It's a broad brush but freedom, individualism, and wanting to be left alone by a intrusive government seem to be common values there.

Currently the left is entirely about being authoritarian. They have their values and want to enforce them on everyone else and get rid of those that disagree.

I guess Gender Identity politics really throws everything off for me. Part of it is personal, my type tends to be well-built tomboys and it seems like modern generations on both sides are trying to straight-up erase the existence of such women, and you'd that a side that leans more toward individualism would not care about whether someone who doesn't quite fit the statistical norms wouldn't care about whether a tribe/society is patriarchal or matriarchal so long as they don't try to intrude on other people's lives.

And as silly as it sounds you can tell a lot about a groups viewpoints based on how much it feels people should conform to statistical norms (AKA sterotypes) that's part of what makes the left so ironic for as much as they whine and moan about sterotypes some of your biggest megaphones on the left expect people to fit into gender and racial stereotypes constantly.

 

[Bigking321]

Part of it is personal, my type tends to be well-built tomboys and it seems like modern generations on both sides are trying to straight-up erase the existence of such women,

I can definitely see that on the left. But on the right I've sort of seen the opposite?

I can't speak to your experience but in mine a conservative tomboy is like... the imaginary IDEAL everyone wants to find but are kinda rare. Like, "oh wow, she's amazing" type of appeal.

There's definitely a desire for more traditional feminism as well on the right but I've never seen either pushed to the exclusion of the other.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I can definitely see that on the left. But on the right I've sort of seen the opposite?

I can't speak to your experience but in mine a conservative tomboy is like... the imaginary IDEAL everyone wants to find but are kinda rare. Like, "oh wow, she's amazing" type of appeal.

There's definitely a desire for more traditional feminism as well on the right but I've never seen either pushed to the exclusion of the other.

it's probably my own experiences but I've seen a lot of Tateesque "Conservatives" come out of the woodwork...snf it makes me raise an eyebrow when you have media clutching thier pearls going "How dare a woman be shown capable while a man runs away don'r they know that's a dangerous message that doesin't reflect reality?" it makes me eyeroll.

it seems more like people aren't mad that politics is in media, they just get mad when it's not thier politics in the media.

 

[Cherico]

I can definitely see that on the left. But on the right I've sort of seen the opposite?

I can't speak to your experience but in mine a conservative tomboy is like... the imaginary IDEAL everyone wants to find but are kinda rare. Like, "oh wow, she's amazing" type of appeal.

There's definitely a desire for more traditional feminism as well on the right but I've never seen either pushed to the exclusion of the other.

Lets be honest most guys will be happy with a woman who is generally nice to them and treats them with basic respect and dignaty.

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Lets be honest most guys will be happy with a woman who is generally nice to them and treats them with basic respect and dignity.

From my own experiences, no. They will feel more content with their life, but at the expense of the woman.

it seems more like people aren't mad that politics is in media, they just get mad when it's not thier politics in the media.

The most disturbing thing about the politics-in-media discourse is that it showed that most young Americans despise the principles the country was built on, and dream of turning it into a theocracy that espouses their ideals.

It's the duty of saner or older people to discipline them and teach them about the intrinsic failures of despotism, but they failed because they got complacent after the Cold War. Our generation just cannot handle disagreement, cannot handle other viewpoints and cannot handle their tribalistic instincts. This can only end in both the Reactionaries and the Progressives failing one after the other in accomplishing their visions, followed by normal people just taking over from them and consigning both to the dustbin of history.

 

[IndyFront]

From my own experiences, no. They will feel more content with their life, but at the expense of the woman.

Wot? Most men are STARVED for attention, unlike women. Women get free compliments and love meanwhile most men have to work for that shit. What planet are you from again?

 

[SoliFortissimi]

Most men are STARVED for attention, unlike women. Women get free compliments and love meanwhile most men have to work for that shit. What planet are you from again?

The one where I saw how the men behaved with the women of my family. The only ones with a half healthy relationship were the ones where the husband* didn't need any affirmation or emotional support. In contrast, the ones that did seek affirmation from their wives were frankly abusive, even if not physically.

Men want attention, but it doesn't really make you content. It just makes them touchier. What will make them happy is to have enough confidence in themselves that they don't depend on others for affirmation.

*my mother's eldest brother (she had three, and two sisters)

 

[IndyFront]

 

[Rocinante]

So what this guy is saying is being taken put of context and misquoted a lot. This isn't the bombshell it sounds like.

People are misquoting it to claim he is saying its a fact that Biden has Parkinsons. No, what he's saying is Biden for a fact has "Parkinsonisms," which really just means he shows symptoms. Which makes this whole thing a nothingburger, because you don't need to be a fucking doctor to recognize that.

 

[Grant Us Eyes]

Honestly, the thing I can't get out of my head is the idea that all this is happening WAY too fucking fast.

A month ago the media treated Biden's mental health problems as a conspiracy theory. Now there are mass calls for him stepping down, and all the big name news outlets and celebrities and politicians are calling for him to step aside.

And we're really buying just one debate caused this massive turn around?

I don't think this is really about Joe's Parkinson's or dementia or whatever. I think this is planned.

Allow me to introduce you to this phrase called 'Preference Cascade'.

 

[LordsFire]

' Tateesque '

If you're referring to Andrew Tate here, then the quote marks around "conservative" are quite appropriate.

I don't think I've ever heard the man say anything actually conservative, not that I've seen much of him, and the way he has lived his life is a rejection of all traditional British values, and I believe that's the nation he's from.

That his popularity surge came from backlash against violently misandristic feminism, which is a branch of the political left, does not change this.