Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Bethesda likes doing a lot of fucky things with the lore. Trying to blame the war on aliens is one thing I hate. Another is a lot of the stuff they pulled with ghouls in 4. I still absolutely despise the refrigerator quest and that goddamn crime boss quest. Ghouls still need food and water to survive, and these bumblefucks are trying to claim otherwise.

The people who leap on the Zetans as the reason the nukes started flying are idiots. So are the people that try to insist that, "Aww, gee. We don't really know who launched the first nuke."

But come the fuck on. Even the most basic of critical thinking skills will tell you it was China.

The United States saw Alaska get invaded, then launched a counterattack that defeated the invasion.

Various bits of information have told us China was invaded from multiple direction, losing wide swathes of territory to advancing US soldiers because the Chinese army just fucking collapsed in the face of power armor.

I wonder who could have launched the first nuke? The country actively winning the war or the country on the verge of total defeat?
 

Paladin Wulfen

Well-known member
Bethesda likes doing a lot of fucky things with the lore. Trying to blame the war on aliens is one thing I hate. Another is a lot of the stuff they pulled with ghouls in 4. I still absolutely despise the refrigerator quest and that goddamn crime boss quest. Ghouls still need food and water to survive, and these bumblefucks are trying to claim otherwise.

The people who leap on the Zetans as the reason the nukes started flying are idiots. So are the people that try to insist that, "Aww, gee. We don't really know who launched the first nuke."

But come the fuck on. Even the most basic of critical thinking skills will tell you it was China.

The United States saw Alaska get invaded, then launched a counterattack that defeated the invasion.

Various bits of information have told us China was invaded from multiple direction, losing wide swathes of territory to advancing US soldiers because the Chinese army just fucking collapsed in the face of power armor.

I wonder who could have launched the first nuke? The country actively winning the war or the country on the verge of total defeat?
Check the Switchboard terminals about PAM
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
Bethesda likes doing a lot of fucky things with the lore. Trying to blame the war on aliens is one thing I hate. Another is a lot of the stuff they pulled with ghouls in 4. I still absolutely despise the refrigerator quest and that goddamn crime boss quest. Ghouls still need food and water to survive, and these bumblefucks are trying to claim otherwise.

The people who leap on the Zetans as the reason the nukes started flying are idiots. So are the people that try to insist that, "Aww, gee. We don't really know who launched the first nuke."

But come the fuck on. Even the most basic of critical thinking skills will tell you it was China.

The United States saw Alaska get invaded, then launched a counterattack that defeated the invasion.

Various bits of information have told us China was invaded from multiple direction, losing wide swathes of territory to advancing US soldiers because the Chinese army just fucking collapsed in the face of power armor.

I wonder who could have launched the first nuke? The country actively winning the war or the country on the verge of total defeat?
The thing is, the evidence of the Zetans kicking it off is very sus...
Check the Switchboard terminals about PAM
Yeah, and the leaders around her were ignoring her to the point that they act like morons...
 

Paladin Wulfen

Well-known member
Yeah, and the leaders around her were ignoring her to the point that they act like morons...
I was talking about the radars detecting the launch nukes and the bombing. It make clear who throw the bomb. Strategic bombers flying over Bering, nukes near west coast...
 

Aaron Fox

Well-known member
I was talking about the radars detecting the launch nukes and the bombing. It make clear who throw the bomb. Strategic bombers flying over Bering, nukes near west coast...
True, but the biggest problem is that PAM was predicting how it would go down, right to the Chinese super-stealth SSBNs.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Sorry, sorry for the delay (again) ... turns out starting college means you don't have a lot of time to do things, especially writing fanfic to post on an online SF discussion forum. But, while you wait for Ch. 28, have some Enclave Propaganda:

==*==

Why We Fight

Pamphlet written by Professor Richard J. Buchan of Georgetown University in collaboration with the Department of Public Information; distributed by the War Department

To understand why we are fighting the people of California one fact must first be made clear. The rebel nation, referred to by itself as the New California Republic, is solely to blame for the war that is now underway between the USA and the rebels. But, surprisingly, the Californian insurrectionist movement did not start out inherently hostile to the US. Aradesh indeed, at the beginning of the “New California Republic”, sought only to establish a local government to reduce banditry on the trade routes between South California’s cities. He did this following the vision of our own Founding Fathers in the establishment of the NCR Constitution, which takes much from the US Constitution, and indeed his Jeffersonian vision deserves some admiration. However, his dream was corrupted by his daughter. The rot set in quickly, and in 2242 the change in the NCR’s government led to the worst act of political terrorism in world history.

Unlike her father, "President" Tandi was a ruthless, authoritarian powermonger who thought only of her prestige and power. Even the NCR admits that ‘Caesar’, the greatest of the Anarchy’s warlords, was inspired by her in creating his totalitarian warrior cult. And like any despot, she feared losing power most of all - unlike Autumn, who stepped down after 24 years, Tandi clung on to the NCR “Presidency” till the day of her death. This is why she deemed the restoration of US authority unacceptable when she learned of President Richardson's efforts to begin constructing US military bases and carry out recon activities on the mainland, leading to the most unforgivable of her crimes.

Like a spider in the centre of her web, from Shady Sands she orchestrated the nuclear terrorist attack on Control Station ENCLAVE shortly after the beginning of the reclamation of the mainland, using a tribal from the village of Arroyo as an agent to obfuscate the clear involvement of the NCR’s rangers and intelligence operatives in the cowardly atrocity that claimed so many lives and put the very existence of the United States into jeopardy. This is why we can never forgive the government heading the rebel nation; why we must fight until, as our anthem says, their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution. The rebels must be broken and made to accept the authority and legitimacy of the US government. Only then can we Americans truly live in peace from the threat they have continuously posed since then to our way of life.

The account described in NCR history books is so nonsensical as to not even need refutation - a Bond-villain scheme to destroy the world, complete with monologuing supervillain; a tribal on a revenge quest somehow infiltrating bases of the most technologically advanced nation on the planet, not just once but twice; the United States of America, which comprehensively settled racial issues by the turn of the 21st century, becoming fanatically racialist to the point it attempts world genocide. But the people in Shady Sands who concocted this myth during the runup to the vicious NCR siege of Camp Navarro (a facility, almost completely evacuated, which the NCR declared a "regional threat") did not care that their narrative was flimsy, but that it appeared plausible enough to serve its purpose.

The goal of this narrative is fundamentally simple - to justify the NCR’s efforts to exterminate the US Federal Government by portraying it as the worst possible evil - a conglomeration of the National Socialists’ genocidal methods and the communist ideological fantasy of destroying the world to recreate in their image. If the NCR’s lies are true, then it isn’t an insurrectionist terrorist state, their repeated assassination attempts of US Presidents are noble efforts to stop the end of humanity. They weren’t villains - on the contrary, they had saved the world!

The actions of the NCR, however, show that it isn’t simply content to protect itself, but seeks the outright eradication of the United States of America, even after they had ended the supposed threat to all mankind. The bloodthirsty persecution of US government and military personnel stranded in NCR territory after their unprovoked attack on Camp Navarro, extending to their children; the constant calls to aggressive war against us in the NCR Congress; the endless repetition of propaganda that makes the Land of the Free out to be a communist-style tyranny. This is what makes it a threat to the United States which we fundamentally cannot allow to exist - even if it was not on our soil, we would be forced to march to bring down an enemy government which rejects the very concept of peace with us.

The rebel nation is a fanatical, extremist state; we know from bitter experience that there are no lows it will not stoop to, no crime it will not tolerate. This is why it is our duty - your duty - to soundly crush it and; like we did with its antecedent in the Confederacy, like we did with the Nazis and the Japanese, like we did with Red China, make sure it never rises to threaten the good people of our nation again!

The Californian denial of a connection to America is also laughable. America has always been a nation that contained many regional identities; Canadian (or “Little American”), Southerner, Texan, Heartlander, etc. Some of these identities were politically independent for a period of time, yes, but eventually the cultural and economic unity they shared led to political unification. Why should ‘Californian’ not be included in this list? It’s impossible to imagine California without reference to the USA, as it was only as part of America that California became something more than an empty wilderness dotted by mission churches.

They have no argument that the Federal Government ceased to exist during the Anarchy, either, since it evidently did not; hence there is no rational argument for Californian political independence. All that they have is laughable conspiracy theories about pre-War secret societies. And even as they deny their origins, the hypocrites use infrastructure built by the US, such as the great Hoover Dam or the mighty Golden Gate Bridge. There is not a single invention, a single piece of infrastructure, a single element of culture, a single anything created by the NCR. Everything they have they stole from us. Isn't it right that we take it back?

So, we conclude, what do the Californians have; lacking a coherent argument that they should be independent, lacking a true history of American crimes against them? They have a fanatical, incoherent hatred and anger over false atrocities instilled into them over generations by their corrupt and authoritarian leaders, based on a fantasy plagiarised from pre-War spy films, to justify their relentless campaign to destroy the United States government, started by those who realised it posed the greatest possible threat to their own power and prestige and continued ever since by the spiritual descendants of the initial traitors.

They have an overwhelming fear, instilled into them since childhood, that we are a tyrannical state and they will surely be subject to slavery or even genocide should they lose, started by those who would indeed be rightfully punished should their rebellion be defeated and the chickens hatched during their century of rebellion and criminality come to roost. These combine to create a dangerous insurrectionist terror-state which doesn’t respect even the most basic laws of civilisation, which will pose a threat to the American people so long as it exists.

Against this madness, you have the sure knowledge that you are a soldier of the legitimate American government, proud citizen-defender of a mighty nation more than five hundred years old, which throughout its history always stood for the right against the most appalling and vile regimes this world has been blighted with. Your forebears broke the Nazi empire and tore down Red China. A few rebels are nothing in comparison. Our mighty land, rent and wounded by rebellion and anarchy, cries out to be healed; to be restored and reunited under its lawful government. Go out and stand tall as you march to the battle. You are fighting for a noble country and a noble cause. Never doubt that.
God bless America!
 

DarthAwesome

Relativistic Warfare Strategist
Well now we know the public view of all this from the E-USA's side. Honestly, discounting the lying about President Richardson and all the events of Fallout 2, this is pretty honest, as the NCR did in almost every situation decide to make things worse when they could have made peace.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Ch. 28 snippet ... (6k words and counting!) ...

==*==

“You’re not scared of that? Well then, we Salvatores may have gone down in the world since the glory days, but if there’s one thing we’ve held on to, it’s our accounts. Trust me, there’re things in our ledgers that your ‘American government’ would shit a brick about if they ever happened to see the light of day …”
 

Crow gotta eat

That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
“You’re not scared of that? Well then, we Salvatores may have gone down in the world since the glory days, but if there’s one thing we’ve held on to, it’s our accounts. Trust me, there’re things in our ledgers that your ‘American government’ would shit a brick about if they ever happened to see the light of day …”
Interesting.

I am wondering how they are exactly threatening the E-USA. Not only that, if it would be believable at all. Because out of everything the E-USA is still authoritarian enough that them threatening to release anything to the American public would be questionable at best at being effective, since any publication would get an immediate crackdown as printing/airing "rebel secessionist propaganda" by the FBI and just probable outright disbelief from the general public simply because it is coming from California and "of course they would falsify documents to paint the rightful government as the bad guys."

But they could theoretically release in the NCR and other nation-states. Though any European state getting it would question its authenticity merely by distance involved and its source, unless of course they are already dispositioned to dislike the E-USA and its allies. The NCR public though would eat it up and even if they discover the E-USA is no longer like the Oil Rig Enclave, it would still make any conventional occupation that much more of hell to pull off. Possibly in the public of the NCR-Aligned Texas as well.

Obviously its documents related to the chemicals and stuff the Oil Rig Enclave got from the Salvatores in exchange for weapons, but I wonder how exactly they would be threatening to use them.
 
Last edited:

SuperHeavy

Well-known member
Blackmailing only works if the person you are threatening is not willing to simply eliminate the problem at the source. That and if other people actually care. As Crow points out the US population will disregard any claims and their allies are not going to be especially receptive. With NCR propaganda being mislead from the start they lack the trust to make any trade records more than internal propaganda material.
 

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Well, we know that the Enclave gave the Salvatores laser pistols in exchange for chemicals that were useful in developing the modified FEV. Unless you can definitively show that the only thing those chemicals could possibly have been used for was the genocidal plan they attempted in Fallout 2, that shouldn't be too big of a deal.

I suppose the fact that the Enclave was providing laser weaponry to an organized crime family back when energy weapons were still extremely rare in the wastelands could cause a stir. Since it apparently made them quite the menace before the Chosen One used their plot armor to murder-fuck all the bad guys in that game. (I think they canonically knocked up Salvatore's daughter?)

Though that in and of itself could probably be brushed off. So I think maybe the Salvatores think they have a stronger bargaining chip than they actually do.

We'll have to see where Navarro takes this.
 

AspblastUSA

Well-known member
I'm more curious as to what the context of this conversation actually is. The Salvatores obviously want something out of the E-USA but we have no idea what. On the surface it looks like an attempt to blackmail the E-USA government, but it's just as likely that this is a defensive action: the Salvatores puffing up their chests and trying to fend off the first feelers of the government coming west.
 

Crow gotta eat

That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
I'm more curious as to what the context of this conversation actually is. The Salvatores obviously want something out of the E-USA but we have no idea what. On the surface it looks like an attempt to blackmail the E-USA government, but it's just as likely that this is a defensive action: the Salvatores puffing up their chests and trying to fend off the first feelers of the government coming west.
That is also very much a possibility, considering this is just a single part of the conversation and just from one participant in it.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
Hey @Navarro what are the details on laser color and performance? I remember you talking about it when the Bobcat was introduced, but forgot the details.

E-US uses blue lasers for p. much everything, from their reverse-engineered Institute tech, used red during FO3 times and orange during Autumn Morning. Basically they're twice as effective than pre-War lasers when it comes to armour penetration and "damage". Civilian laser weapons tend to be red or orange, w/ blue generally considered military grade.

NCR uses a mix of red and green lasers (green starting to predominate) with LAER electrolasers used as well (it messes with PA electronics). Think of green lasers as being a 50% boost.

BOS uses green lasers.

Ch. 28 still hopping steadily along, I haven't forgotten this.
 

ForeverShogo

Well-known member
Yeah. There's some complicated stuff as to why . . . Differences in wavelengths of the light and the like . . . But the main thing is that blue lasers tend to have a better energy density and they tend to be better at transferring their energy into whatever you're shooting with them.

As far as visible light weapons go, from weakest to strongest: red - orange - yellow - green - cyan - blue - violet

As a simple example . . . Laser welding. If you were to create a green laser and a blue laser, both with the exact same output, the green laser would be 20% weaker. Simply because 20% of the energy put into the green laser would be lost in comparison to the blue laser.

So for the US to improve its laser guns, first they'd have to go to violet lasers. Or maybe they skip a step and go to ultraviolet lasers, at which point the lasers are no longer in the visible spectrum and you can fire them without giving away your position.
 

willdelve4beer

Well-known member
I may be misremembering things (has been a few decades since my last physics course) but don't different EM wavelengths also have different rates of scatter/diffusion in the atmosphere? Not sure it would be a /big/ issue in normal RPG gun-fight ranges, but battlefields also tend to kick up lots of dust and smoke, which seem like the sorts of things that might aggravate those sorts of issues for DEW's based on EM spectrum.
 

Navarro

Well-known member
They're using like, miniature fusion reactors as basic ammo so they have plenty of power to pump into the beams and everybody's using pulsed lasers to maximise AP and damage. As for dust and smoke ... those are issues yes, I do mention it a couple of times. That's part of why the battlefields of 24th century North America also see heavy use of plasma weapons, coilguns, various missile/grenade launchers et al.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top