Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]

[novussa]

Heh. You're definitely sugar-coating E-US to a fair extent. These are the kind of people whose intelligence services go "let's have a communist takeover in Mexico so we can have an excuse to conquer it", after all. Not to mention the questionable degree to which the government is *really* representative.

or having you soldiers shoot captured rebels in canada on live tv and they act like it is something normal.

 

[AspblastUSA]

or having you soldiers shoot captured rebels in canada on live tv and they act like it is something normal.

To be fair, that one's less relevant. Not because the US government didn't do it, but because it was 254 years ago as of the present date of the story. Even without the nuclear war, one would expect things to have changed just due to several complete generational turnovers in that time.

 

[Navarro]

To be fair, that one's less relevant. Not because the US government didn't do it, but because it was 254 years ago as of the present date of the story. Even without the nuclear war, one would expect things to have changed just due to several complete generational turnovers in that time.

I mean, they do televise public executions in general. Fun for all the family!

 

[DarthAwesome]

Heh. You're definitely sugar-coating E-US to a fair extent. These are the kind of people whose intelligence services go "let's have a communist takeover in Mexico so we can have an excuse to conquer it", after all. Not to mention the questionable degree to which the government is *really* representative.

True, but compared to the horrific fascist dystopian slavocracy that the Enclave was supposed to be, they find the E-US, a flawed but generally good nation, and a measurable step up from most of the wasteland. TBH, this America seems nicer to live in than our own, in some ways. I bet there are ways where it isn't, but no nation is perfect.

 

[Bacle]

I got a sneaking suspicion the propaganda of both the NCR and Enclave might fall apart if Mr. House decides to roll the dice on revealing what he all he knows about both factions dirty laundry.

Short of some of the very old non-feral ghouls, House has the most objective perspective on how shite both the NCR and Enclave are.

 

[AspblastUSA]

Genuine question about that. Does House actually have anything on the US? I don’t think he was aware of events around the 2240s, and even if he brings up truly heinous dirt from before the war, the easy counter is again that said dirt is over 200 years old, anyone who actually did any of it is long dead.

 

[Crow gotta eat]

I got a sneaking suspicion the propaganda of both the NCR and Enclave might fall apart if Mr. House decides to roll the dice on revealing what he all he knows about both factions dirty laundry.

Short of some of the very old non-feral ghouls, House has the most objective perspective on how shite both the NCR and Enclave are.

That's... not worth very much. Like Aspblast said, it's over 200 years old for the Enclave. And it doesn't matter how true it would be, as it is another thing to convince the US population that it is true and not just totally fabricated, or just even horribly exaggerated.

 

[Navarro]

Ch. 28 still going along steadily, don't you worry. Sorry for taking so long.

BTW, any of you have an idea of a slang term NCR troops would use for Enclave/US soldiers?

 

[Paladin Wulfen]

BTW, any of you have an idea of a slang term NCR troops would use for Enclave/US soldiers?

Yanqui: reference to Spanish heritage in California and old term for US People.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Knockers

 

[Crow gotta eat]

BTW, any of you have an idea of a slang term NCR troops would use for Enclave/US soldiers?

Hmmm hard to say. They aren't wearing the old armor anymore, so not like any insect or bug related names can stick. And most of the things that could stick would technically give them legitimacy, like Yankee, or Federals/Feds/Feddies, or Unionists. Maybe a name related to one of the leaders of the Enclave, say like Dick Richardson, something dickies or richies in that example? Eaglets?

Other enemies of the Enclave are likely to refer to them as whatever words are used for Americans today.

 

[f1onagher]

A derogatory reference to the eagle to mirror all the bear-fucker slurs. Something like chickenshits, chicken-hawks, feather heads, cock heads, old world buzzards etc.

Given that the E!US likes their power armor and tanks you could have something for that like tin head or toy soldier, but all the best techno-slurs would be taken by the BoS already.

If you could figure out how to do an alternate universe future equivalent to Karen that would be perfect, since the US's entire foreign policy revolves around taking back what they think belongs to them regardless of what the current locals think. Something really sanguine sounding like Jodie or Delilah.

Ooh, we've seen the Enclave throw around a lot of mini-nukes, something we haven't seen California use. I feel the average NCR grunt would be crankier about that than anything else. So something like rad-brain, nuke-luke, glowie, sore loser.

Or just them roaches. Hard black shell, insectoid-looking armor. Its simple and translates well across language and cultures.

 

[DarthAwesome]

Fascists, Demons, Riggers, Wannabes, Liars, Posers, Frauds, Eye-Guys, Soldier Boys, Damnyanks, Richies, Dickies, Dicks, Sky-Rats, Roaches, and more. If you want an explanation you can ask.

 

[Navarro]

Hmmm hard to say. They aren't wearing the old armor anymore, so not like any insect or bug related names can stick. And most of the things that could stick would technically give them legitimacy, like Yankee, or Federals/Feds/Feddies, or Unionists. Maybe a name related to one of the leaders of the Enclave, say like Dick Richardson, something dickies or richies in that example? Eaglets?

Something related to Autumn too perhaps - "Gus's goons" or whatnot?

 

[Crow gotta eat]

Something related to Autumn too perhaps - "Gus's goons" or whatnot?

That could possibly work, could have easily have gotten pulled from a propaganda poster, and it can easily be shortened to goons as a speaker feels as needed. Plus some of the other general terms DarthAwesome suggested could be good.

 

[AspblastUSA]

And most of the things that could stick would technically give them legitimacy, like Yankee, or Federals/Feds/Feddies, or Unionists.

Giving the E!USA legitimacy as the old US continued might not be seen as a negative in NCR circles. As I recall wasn’t there a plan in the works to paint the prewar US as just about as vile as they claim the E!US is? If I'm remembering that right, legitimacy then makes the E!US seem like the poison fruit of a tainted tree.

 

[Crow gotta eat]

Giving the E!USA legitimacy as the old US continued might not be seen as a negative in NCR circles. As I recall wasn’t there a plan in the works to paint the prewar US as just about as vile as they claim the E!US is? If I'm remembering that right, legitimacy then makes the E!US seem like the poison fruit of a tainted tree.

Yes and no. "Yeah, sure they had old-world elites including politicians, military and business leaders hiding on the original rig and their descendants lived on it as well, but America as a country died in the nuclear flames and those elites left everyone else behind to hide on the rig" is the most common stance, besides mentioning the whole genocide attempt.

First off, we must fend off the Enclave’s own arguments. First, they argue that they are the legitimate government from the pre-nuclear era. As if anything before that watershed matters! To call upon the spectre of a world that reduced itself to rubble is to already admit defeat. A world, we might add, that destroyed itself because of their mistakes. Mistakes that they in their cowardice ran from, abandoning hundreds of millions to die! This abandonment itself destroys any claim they make to legitimacy.

It is true that the Enclave’s leadership – the “pure humans” who oppress those living under them – are the descendants of pre-War political, military and business leaders. And it is also true that one of those leaders was the last President of the United States. But we are dealing with elites here, not the main citizenry. America was never a monarchy, and they owe us no debt of allegiance because of who their fathers were.

They call us rebels and secessionists because California fought off their attempts to exterminate and enslave us. How can we have rebelled against those we never swore loyalty to, or seceded from a country we were never part of? Their expansion into the Caribbean islands also proves the lie that they simply seek to restore order in old American territory.

Pre-War America is dead. The Enclave is its walking corpse, driven by the desire of its old elites to retain power over us. And it is dead because it was fundamentally flawed from the start – flaws corrected in our own Republic, having learned from the mistakes of its “founding fathers”.

 

[Bacle]

And the thing is, the NCR aren't wrong about the Enclave leadership and history either. It's just the Enclave is better at erasing and re-writing history than the NCR is, and do have connections to the pre-war gov.

However, I think both sides are a bit...short sighted about the events of the great war and events of FO1/2, when even the Brotherhood knows about the Zetans and the E-USE must also as well.

 

[Navarro]

I mean, EUS fighter pilots have shot down ayylmaos a couple of time, usually shortly followed by USAF specops teams being sent to the crash site to do various X-COM stuff. Remember, even in FO3 the Enclave was doing alien autopsies in Adams AFB.

 

[AspblastUSA]

Besides which, I think it would be a major misstep for any Fallout story to take the implication that aliens triggered the nuclear exchange from Mothership Zeta and treat it as true. Even in a story like this, that is well past the postapocalypse stage of societal development, the fact that the-world-that-was ended in fiery death and a poisoned world due to the actions of man is a key part of the foundational mythos of... every modern society. Even the EUS, especially the EUS; given they're claiming not mere spiritual descendancy but to be the direct continuation of one of the major participants.

To shift that blame to the Zetans upends one of the core structures of Fallout as a setting.