mrttao
Well-known member
Wouldn't it make more sense to do things the other way around?
That is, forbid your citizens from visiting russia to deny russia the tourism income?
Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
Wouldn't it make more sense to do things the other way around?
That is, forbid your citizens from visiting russia to deny russia the tourism income?
Ah, yes, lying about what the person above is saying, putting all sorts of words in their mouths.
No where in it did the guy say people were evil for having those pet issues, only mistaken the situation as a 'Help Ukraine or XYZ domestically, no 'both' option' scenario.
Also, the idea that Ukraine is any significant chunk of the budget, compared to things like corn syrup or oil industry subsidies is fucking hilarious. And a lot of the aid money going to Ukraine ends up coming back when Ukraine is purchasing aid and equipment.
The penny-pinching on Ukraine, vs any other issue for the Right, shows how many are just Right Wing NPCs.
Of course you know all this, but all those points undercut you narrative of it being 'Ukraine aid vs XYZ'.
No, this denies Kremlin agents and accessories from being able to vacation in Europe via car, and makes it harder for Russia to evade sanctions via smuggling.
mrttao
Well-known member
> reeeee. he didn't say the word evil, he just said you want a bunch of people to die out of small minded pettiness and envy
All I can do is facepalm here.
Alright that is sensible.
Much better argument for doing so than what I have previously seen.
I'm pretty sure the Ukrainian wetworks groups and the countless rebel and independence groups in Russia are thanking their God/Gods/Spirits for the bounty they have received.
And, that is what is happening.
Small minded and short sighted views of 'support Ukraine or XYZ domestic issue' are what amounts to wanting to throw Ukraine under the bus simply because their pet issues aren't getting the same support.
I guess also buying the Russia nuke threats is another reason to want to pull support, but that also runs right into the fact Putin's nuclear command chain requires 3 people to OK nuke usage, not 2 like the US, and the other two code holders besides Putin are not interested in nuclear suicide.
mrttao
Well-known member
I told you again and again why I want to pull support.
I think all foreign aid programs should become voluntary. make a website called
foreignaid.gov
which lists a variety of countries the govt wants to send aid to, what this aid is going to buy, and let any american citizen can voluntarily donate to it as much as he wants.
I don't know what reason the other 55% of the pop that want to pull support has, as I am not a psyker and don't claim to be one.
But if I had to guess, they probably share my opinion rather than your "here is my psychoanalysis of people I hate and want dead" bullshit that you are spewing.
Yes, I know you've outed yourself as part of the short-sighted penny-pincher variety/faction.
You still want to cling to the outdated economic model that forgets/ignores 'Federal Reserve Money Printer Go Brr' is the reality we live in, and the household finances and national scale finances are not the same thing and do not operate the same way.
Households cannot issue currency, households cannot sell sovereign debt for foreign policy plays, and households don't have 11 CVNs to back up their currency.
mrttao
Well-known member
> outed yourself
you are a literal bandit robbing people and then trying to shame them into bending over and taking it.
edit:
actually, I am curious now.
how much money did you personally donate to ukraine voluntarily from your own pocket?
have you considered travelling over there to volunteer as a foreign soldier for ukraine?
Blasterbot
Well-known member
If wanting the money printer to stop going Brr and stop destroying the American economy is being a penny picher you got some strange definitions. we can't handle the bidenomics. we keep this up? we are gonna be in for some worse times and the consolation prize is going to be that we ruined Russia's stores of cold war era equipment. that is gonna be a cold comfort when the inevitable economic consequences hit us.
No, I just understand how modern economic and international finances work, despite the delusions of some people that national and international scale finance works the same way the household's do.
Fed Reserve Money Printer go brr, and not a small amount of the money sent to Ukraine ends up back in the US to pay for aid supplies, so it's ending up back in US pockets.
Ah yes, the 'why don't you go fight in Ukraine if you support them so much' argument, why am I not surprised you trotted this out.
Well, for your information I would like to go to Ukraine to fight and likely die, but I have a senior citizen father who there is no one else to take care of, and I owe it to my late mother to be there for him.
Money printer will never stop going brr, regardless of Ukraine or any other issue, unless we switch back to the gold standard.
Many people here still hold to the old economic paradigm that has been dead since Reagan took us off the gold-standard and made the USD a fiat currency, because they still have the belief that national and household finances work the same way, when they don't and never have.
I mean I get it, the GOP has been lying to it's base about how our economy works under fiat currency for decades, so the illusions are deep and hard to cast off.
mrttao
Well-known member
> I have dependents. Of course I can not personally give anything myself
wow... you are really living up to that stereotype.
Blasterbot
Well-known member
Then the system will never get fixed and we will slowly degrade and rot away. in which case throwing money away in Ukraine is pointless because it will not slow down the issues and is unlikely to buy more time for the US to be functional.
also it was Nixon who took us off the gold standard. Reagan did not reimplement the gold standard though.
Bassoe
Well-known member
Another argument could be that foreign aid in Ukraine is actively worse than just disposing of the money or handing it out to politically connected cronies without even the fig leaf of embezzlement, insofar as it makes our situation worse. The current neoconservative US policy appears to be to deliberately attempt to back Russia into a corner where their only hope of regime survival is to use nuclear weapons. From my perspective as an average American civilian, it would seem that the better they do, the more danger we're in, and it'd have been preferable for Russia to have actually managed the three-day "special operation" invasion they planned and present their victory as a fait accompli over the current status quo.
Except nukes won't be used.
Ukraine has attacked HQ buildings in Crimea, attacked part of the Nuclear Traide via destroying a fucking Strat Bomber, have attacked numerous things within Russia, not just close to Ukraine either.
Russian volunteer troops have been into Russia numerous times.
They could literally declare war and fully mobilize with the fighting on actual Russian land.
Yet they havnt.
They havnt Nuked Ukraine.
They havnt used nukes because HIMARS, Leapords, Challys, Abrams.
They havnt used Nukes because of Harpoons.
They havnt used them because ot Storm Shadows.
Because of patriot...
The list goes on. And on. And on. And on.
Russia has said numerous times we have crossed a red line.
Where are the nukes?
Ukraine has attacked HQ buildings in Crimea, attacked part of the Nuclear Traide via destroying a fucking Strat Bomber, have attacked numerous things within Russia, not just close to Ukraine either.
Russian volunteer troops have been into Russia numerous times.
They could literally declare war and fully mobilize with the fighting on actual Russian land.
Yet they havnt.
They havnt Nuked Ukraine.
They havnt used nukes because HIMARS, Leapords, Challys, Abrams.
They havnt used Nukes because of Harpoons.
They havnt used them because ot Storm Shadows.
Because of patriot...
The list goes on. And on. And on. And on.
Russia has said numerous times we have crossed a red line.
Where are the nukes?
No, the money going into Ukraine is not pointless; it saves lives there, and here, by making it less likely NATO and Russia have to directly duke it out. A good chunk of it also ends up back in the US when Ukraine buys aid and equipment, so it's not like the money is 'lost' from the US monetary system.
None of what is going to Ukraine would do anything here at home that is not already being done.
Huh, I had thought that the gold standard was dumped under Reaganomics, not that it was dumped under Nixon and Reagan just never went back.
No, letting Russia get what they want out of biting off chunks of Ukraine only makes the US less a safe, and increases the likelihood Russia feels comfortable enough to go after the Baltic's or other NATO members if Ukraine is thrown under the bus.
And Russia as a nation has ways out of this that are survivable and may allow them to rejoin the international community after a time. It's just Putin who is in a corner, and well, internal dissedents or factional rivals taking Putin out is fairly likely before this war is over.
Putin won't see the end of this war, it will be his successor that orders troops to withdraw.
Also, Russian nuclear command chain is a set up so Putin need two other code holders (likely Shoigu and whoever replaced Gerasimov) to ok nukes, and the CCP would very much prefer Putin not use nukes, because then Taiwan will go for nukes ASAP.
Bassoe
Well-known member
That's functionally the same thing since he's the one controlling their nuclear arsenal.
