Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

Nevertheless, realpolitik remains that strict adherence to the letter of that treaty would lead to the thermonuclear annihilation of civilization, so fuck it.
Another case of my favorite kind of clever idea - damn, if only we could get our enemies to think like this, then this war would not be happening at all.

Say, if UK wanted to poison some people in Moscow with nerve gas, we would think this absolutely not worth flirting with nuclear war as that would be a pretty bloody serious breach of all that is normal in the way civilized countries act, but apparently being worrywarts about thermonuclear annihilation is only for sucker countries, not for the thug countries.
 
Nevertheless, realpolitik remains that strict adherence to the letter of that treaty would lead to the thermonuclear annihilation of civilization, so fuck it.
Russia doesn't seem to think so, and the Brits don't need nukes to neuter Russia's European forces.
 
Russia downed a brone of ours.
We didn't go to war.
Russia poisoned people in the UK
We didn't go to war.
Russia won't do shit.
For some reason I read that as Brony. And started laughing when I looked up why the word sounded familiar. I've read and heard that term a lot among kids. :ROFLMAO:

Well adults. Usually around their twenties, so millennial I think they are called.
 
Yes.
Do you not remember what the aircraft had been trying to do before rhe collision
 
1. It's civilian, commercial shipbuilding capacity. It's of limited use in the event of war. You can't go to them and tell them to build you a supercarrier or attack submarine, they don't know how and they have wrong equipment. They can cobble together some lesser types of military ships, but still only a small fraction of that capacity.
2. If you are going to argue that it is very important for a war, well then, you should have let us all know that 2 major US allies in Pacific do as much commercial shipbuilding as China in order to not look like you are conveniently omitting relevant information to keep your defeatist narrative intact.
ship2.png
There is a difference between nuclear missiles and conventional military forces, smartass, stop with the omission abuse, by now you should have noticed it doesn't work on me.
How did USA deal with Soviet and Chinese conventional forces in Cuba?
Not at all, besides some complaining about it.
So we have it established form Cold War, USA is free to base conventional military forces on the borders of Russia, any problems?

Independent enough to do utterly retarded things like kowtowing to China and paying islamic terrorists for being held by USA, so lay off the leftist propaganda about evul western empires, this shit was made up by retarded leftists, they aren't cool and neither are their convictions about the order of the world.

1) Skills are transferable. That shipyard worker who works building a transport ship has the skills to build a destroyer.

The current set of carriers are being built at a shipyard which was producing bulk transport ships. And unlike the USA, china has an end to end manufacturing chain. Civilian shipyards also increase the ability to maintain ships, refit ships and build support vessels as well.

China is going to be putting over 100! Modern BLUEWATER SHIPS into the sea over the next 10-15 years. This will include aircraft carriers, one class of which will mass 110,000 tonnes. They have also started producing subs that are actually good now as well.

China is also ahead in hypersonic anti shipping missiles.

2) Okay, lets take a look at this for a moment.

If shit hits the fan, do you think Korea is going to spend its resources building ships for the USA? No. If it gets involved, Its going to be busy fighting off the Chinese and NK armies swarming down the peninsula.

3) When the Soviets based missiles in Cuba, it nearly lead to war. A few 'advisors' isnt going to be an issue, because they cant actually do anything. Now, what will you do if the russians and chinese start work to put cruise missiles, fighters and a naval base into Cuba?

4) Until you start understanding that you dont live in 1992 anymore, that you cant simply blow shit up and dictate terms to everyone you will march yourselves into disaster after disaster. Since the fall of the USSR Western diplomacy (really, American diplomacy since the rest of the former west are just vassal states) consists of making demands for unconditional obedience then punishing those who do not submit. Negotiations occur only between the various members of the post-western ruling class about what the content of those demands will be. If the demands arent met, punishment ensues. If punishment doesnt work, they double and redouble until unconditional submission occurs or the system breaks.

The only time negotiation is sought, is when the Empire believes it has a disadvantage. Then it negotiates in bad faith, only seeking to buy time to renew punishments and hostilities. There is no recognition of mutual interests, spheres of influence, or give and take. Only Submission and unconditional surrender.

There is a seamless continuum of behaviour in how the Empire treats a dissident podcaster, to how they treated the truckers, to how they are treating trump, to how they are conducting affairs with Russia and China. Unconditional compliance and surrender, or scorched earth.

Your ruling class are poorly educated degenerate parasites that have no connection with the majority population and who hate you so much they are actively importing a more biddable and pliable population to disenfranchise you forever. Thier wars are for thier benefit, not yours.
 
The only time negotiation is sought, is when the Empire believes it has a disadvantage. Then it negotiates in bad faith, only seeking to buy time to renew punishments and hostilities. There is no recognition of mutual interests, spheres of influence, or give and take. Only Submission and unconditional surrender.
You realize this describes the Russian and Chinese leadership, right?
 
1) Skills are transferable. That shipyard worker who works building a transport ship has the skills to build a destroyer.

The current set of carriers are being built at a shipyard which was producing bulk transport ships. And unlike the USA, china has an end to end manufacturing chain. Civilian shipyards also increase the ability to maintain ships, refit ships and build support vessels as well.

China is going to be putting over 100! Modern BLUEWATER SHIPS into the sea over the next 10-15 years. This will include aircraft carriers, one class of which will mass 110,000 tonnes. They have also started producing subs that are actually good now as well.

China is also ahead in hypersonic anti shipping missiles.

2) Okay, lets take a look at this for a moment.

If shit hits the fan, do you think Korea is going to spend its resources building ships for the USA? No. If it gets involved, Its going to be busy fighting off the Chinese and NK armies swarming down the peninsula.

3) When the Soviets based missiles in Cuba, it nearly lead to war. A few 'advisors' isnt going to be an issue, because they cant actually do anything. Now, what will you do if the russians and chinese start work to put cruise missiles, fighters and a naval base into Cuba?

4) Until you start understanding that you dont live in 1992 anymore, that you cant simply blow shit up and dictate terms to everyone you will march yourselves into disaster after disaster. Since the fall of the USSR Western diplomacy (really, American diplomacy since the rest of the former west are just vassal states) consists of making demands for unconditional obedience then punishing those who do not submit. Negotiations occur only between the various members of the post-western ruling class about what the content of those demands will be. If the demands arent met, punishment ensues. If punishment doesnt work, they double and redouble until unconditional submission occurs or the system breaks.

The only time negotiation is sought, is when the Empire believes it has a disadvantage. Then it negotiates in bad faith, only seeking to buy time to renew punishments and hostilities. There is no recognition of mutual interests, spheres of influence, or give and take. Only Submission and unconditional surrender.

There is a seamless continuum of behaviour in how the Empire treats a dissident podcaster, to how they treated the truckers, to how they are treating trump, to how they are conducting affairs with Russia and China. Unconditional compliance and surrender, or scorched earth.

Your ruling class are poorly educated degenerate parasites that have no connection with the majority population and who hate you so much they are actively importing a more biddable and pliable population to disenfranchise you forever. Thier wars are for thier benefit, not yours.
1.Maybe
2.Maybe,their armies could be as shitty as postsoviets
3.Becouse they do not have missiles capable of hitting USA from soviets then.Well,they had - all 25 of them.
4.Did you miss putin invading Ukraine in 2014? or demanding removal american troops from Poland? or when Biden 5 days before invasion promised that small invasion mean small sanctions? Or USA sending planes for Zelensky,when war started ?

KFBstan was invading other countries,not USA,and USA was quite happy with throwing Ukraine under Moscov yoke,if they did it quiatly.
Blame your idol putin for being corrupted idiot,not USA for supporting Ukraine when kgb was unable to win in week,like they promised.

If kgb was still efficient genociders,USA would made deal with them over Ukraine,Poland ,Baltic and maybe german corpses.
 
1) Skills are transferable. That shipyard worker who works building a transport ship has the skills to build a destroyer.
Did you get that idea from running a shipyard in C&C?
No, military ships have to be built out of different materials and to different standards than cheap freighters.
The current set of carriers are being built at a shipyard which was producing bulk transport ships. And unlike the USA, china has an end to end manufacturing chain. Civilian shipyards also increase the ability to maintain ships, refit ships and build support vessels as well.

China is going to be putting over 100! Modern BLUEWATER SHIPS into the sea over the next 10-15 years. This will include aircraft carriers, one class of which will mass 110,000 tonnes. They have also started producing subs that are actually good now as well.
Have you considered asking them for payment for putting up their advertisements while skipping all the small print like that?
China is also ahead in hypersonic anti shipping missiles.
Yeah, sure. And USA is ahead in flying saucers. Trust me bro.
2) Okay, lets take a look at this for a moment.

If shit hits the fan, do you think Korea is going to spend its resources building ships for the USA? No. If it gets involved, Its going to be busy fighting off the Chinese
If shit hits the fan, chances are Korea will be in the middle and will go a long way to remain US ally in such a situation.

and NK armies swarming down the peninsula.
Someone here has played Homefront: Revolution a little too much and it's not me.
3) When the Soviets based missiles in Cuba, it nearly lead to war. A few 'advisors' isnt going to be an issue, because they cant actually do anything.
Again, please, please assure me that i'm not talking to an AI too stupid to understand the difference between nuclear and non-nuclear missiles.
And no, it wasn't "few advisors", it was a whole ass brigade, with thousands of soldiers, tanks, AA and shit.
Now, what will you do if the russians and chinese start work to put cruise missiles, fighters and a naval base into Cuba?
No, i'm not saying they will start. I'm saying they in fact used to do exactly that, and some of these things they probably still do, and thanks to this i can even tell you what will western politicians do about it - jack shit, complain maybe, and quietly at that.

For example, in the 80's there was also a small but permanent deployment of Soviet strategic bombers in Cuba, even if in naval, non nuclear variant.
Now let that fucking sink in, and stop soyfacing over muh escalation myths.
Did USA nuke Cuba over it? Well, Cuba is still over there conspicuously not being a nuclear wasteland, so guess we have our answer...
4) Until you start understanding that you dont live in 1992 anymore, that you cant simply blow shit up and dictate terms to everyone you will march yourselves into disaster after disaster. Since the fall of the USSR Western diplomacy (really, American diplomacy since the rest of the former west are just vassal states) consists of making demands for unconditional obedience then punishing those who do not submit. Negotiations occur only between the various members of the post-western ruling class about what the content of those demands will be. If the demands arent met, punishment ensues. If punishment doesnt work, they double and redouble until unconditional submission occurs or the system breaks.
I fucking wish this was true, it would be so much better than the cucked bleeding hearts in charge of current western diplomacy. No migrant crisis, no ME bullshit, no Russia playing empire, no China playing silly games with islands, none of that crap.
The only time negotiation is sought, is when the Empire believes it has a disadvantage. Then it negotiates in bad faith, only seeking to buy time to renew punishments and hostilities. There is no recognition of mutual interests, spheres of influence, or give and take. Only Submission and unconditional surrender.
As above.
There is a seamless continuum of behaviour in how the Empire treats a dissident podcaster, to how they treated the truckers, to how they are treating trump, to how they are conducting affairs with Russia and China. Unconditional compliance and surrender, or scorched earth.
As above.
Your ruling class are poorly educated degenerate parasites that have no connection with the majority population and who hate you so much they are actively importing a more biddable and pliable population to disenfranchise you forever. Thier wars are for thier benefit, not yours.
Ok, drop the stupid propaganda line, it can make you cool on /pol/, but not to me. Either they are hypercompetent evil masterminds dominating the world, or idiot degenerates who are struggling to continuously con the average voooter to vooote for them so they need to import double idiot third worlders for that job.
It can't be both... I'm leaning towards the latter.
 
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I thought Poland had the least bad if any at all migrant crisis
Since about 2 years it has one too, because Belarus got pissy and their KGB is outright flying in third world migrants to try push them through a border, while making them pay for the assistance.
That's why Poland built a wall there.
 
Since about 2 years it has one too, because Belarus got pissy and their KGB is outright flying in third world migrants to try push them through a border, while making them pay for the assistance.
That's why Poland built a wall there.
Yes. Belarus is weaponizing the refugees bussing them to the NATO border and telling them to cross. A lot of the time with their guns pointed at the refugees.
 
Yes. Belarus is weaponizing the refugees bussing them to the NATO border and telling them to cross. A lot of the time with their guns pointed at the refugees.
Often also pawning off tools and even stuff like smoke grenades to them for an extra buck for the border guards, or even outright having their servicemen helping break border barriers.
 
Often also pawning off tools and even stuff like smoke grenades to them for an extra buck for the border guards, or even outright having their servicemen helping break border barriers.
There are videos of Belarusian soldiers tearing holes into the Polish border walls. It made it on the news multiple times. I don't know if it was aired further West though.

The Poles had to rebuild with more solid materials. One to six centimeter thick solid steel panels and bars with reinforced concrete foundations.
 
Here's a Russian explaining why Putin won't stop. The first 8 years Putin's administration was focused on enriching themselves. Putin's inner clique personally stole over one trillion USD from the economy. When he lost the election Putin got meaner and paranoid. He started focusing on regaining and keeping power. If he stops Putin's own people will kill him. If he loses the war, Ukraine will demand his head in addition to restoration of their 1991 borders.
 


I think this gets at the crux of a lot of the dislike for aid for Ukraine; the unity on the subject is viewed as threatening other pet political objectives.

It's viewed as 'Support for Ukraine or XYZ pet domestic issue', instead of as something existing alongside domestic issues, that should make people maybe wonder is some pet issues simply do not have support because they are unpopular, not because Ukraine is in the news or getting aid.
 


I think this gets at the crux of a lot of the dislike for aid for Ukraine; the unity on the subject is viewed as threatening other pet political objectives.

It's viewed as 'Support for Ukraine or XYZ pet domestic issue', instead of as something existing alongside domestic issues, that should make people maybe wonder is some pet issues simply do not have support because they are unpopular, not because Ukraine is in the news or getting aid.

Hold Ukraine hostage to force others to agree basically
 


I think this gets at the crux of a lot of the dislike for aid for Ukraine; the unity on the subject is viewed as threatening other pet political objectives.

It's viewed as 'Support for Ukraine or XYZ pet domestic issue', instead of as something existing alongside domestic issues, that should make people maybe wonder is some pet issues simply do not have support because they are unpopular, not because Ukraine is in the news or getting aid.

> If you don't agree with me robbing you, you are an evil person. also you are petty. and you don't even care about being robbed, you are just angry that your stupid evil opinions are not as popular as me robbing you

retard spews his retarded take on things. news at 11.

Hard to imagine being that full of yourself to think you can make such an over simplistic psychoanalysis of hundreds of millions of people, people who are in opposing political views, except on this one issue. and surely the fact they agree on "stop taking my fucking money" means that they are all just petty, and that is the only reason they want you to stop stealing their money.
 
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