Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Zachowon]

IIRC France and Israel both have policies which are heavily "NUKE EM".

France was as a warning. Not the same capacity as the US.
Whose strike policy is we can and will strike forst if the threat is valid.
And does Isreal?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

France was as a warning. Not the same capacity as the US.
Whose strike policy is we can and will strike forst if the threat is valid.
And does Isreal?

If Russia is about to capture Europe, I am pretty sure France is going to press that button, if nobody else has at that point.
Not that I think Russia COULD capture Europe, but conventional wars can and will turn nuclear.
Edit: Additionally France's strategy is deterrence due to first strike lmao.

 

[Zachowon]

If Russia is about to capture Europe, I am pretty sure France is going to press that button, if nobody else has at that point.
Not that I think Russia COULD capture Europe, but conventional wars can and will turn nuclear.

Tactical nukes wise yes.
Only strategic forst strike is US.
I have rea dthier doctrine

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Tactical nukes wise yes.
Only strategic forst strike is US.
I have rea dthier doctrine

France has options for first strike with strategic nuclear weapons.

"Should the leader of any State underestimate France's deep-rooted attachment to its freedom and consider threatening our vital interests, whatever they may be, that leader must realize that our nuclear forces are capable of inflicting absolutely unacceptable damages upon that State's centres of power: its political, economic and military nerve centres."

 

[Zachowon]

France has options for first strike with strategic nuclear weapons.

Huh.
I only remeber the tactical ones.

Funnily enough, China doesn't have one.

 

[King Arts]

Yes, international law applies to the loser, so if Russia loses the war, then what will apply to it?

By loser I mean getting your capital occupied. America lost in Afghanistan and Vietnam yet they won't have people going to the hague for war crimes.

It's a legal thing, it's a matter of time, and they already got a whole bloody island out of the deal, if anything they should be paying because that's a pretty valuable island from what i've heard.

Law is based on force, International law has no force behind it so it has no more authority than I do.

To who? It would be a total mess, including paying to people who absolutely deserved damage (Saddam's enforcers) while the benefits (like Kurds not being gassed and Shia getting some political freedoms) would not be counted, perhaps the reparations would have to go the other way even.

No, Iraq got fucked up by America. The common people were better off under Saadaam. America made everything worse. The only nations that America made better are Korea, Germany, and Japan.

By that logic, if Ukraine drives out Russian armies from own territories, all it should do is simply take over some border cities from Russia and loot them down to the bricks, Russian way, and call it reparations. Kidnap some people into forced labor while at it. That's what you get without legal international reparations and international law, just plain eye for an eye.

I mean if they do it and Russia doesen't respond with some extreme thing like nukes yes.

a) Perhaps it will, but it won't be out of your reasoning stuck in the logic of western internal politics, Russia doesn't give a shit - it would be out of long term decision to remain in conflict with the West, Iran/NK style.
b) The moral thing goes only as far as the morality and ideology attached.
c) War reparations are a legal thing, and were that before they became a moral one.
d) Those certain movements demanding reparations from western countries, well, they never got non-war reparations back when they were relevant yet still demand them now, so not paying reparations in no way guarantees avoiding future demands for reparations. Discarding the particular ideology that demands it does.

But you are the one who is mixing morality and legality. As I said above international law is based on morality because it is not real law.

You are arranging fantasies of threats and lack of them according to personal imagination alone.
Where does North Korea expand so that it's a threat? SK is in alliance with USA too, let's not forget.
Likewise, without a major change in government Russia will remain a hostile neighbor to NATO, even if it no longer has low hanging fruit to expand into (also let's not forget how it fucked with countries that it could not expand into anyway, including Czechia, UK and Spain).
Same goes for Cuba, it's still a politically and ideologically hostile to USA shithole and is being treated accordingly.
Iran and NK are still sanctioned, and conveniently keep reminding everyone why.
If Russia acts the same way (and manages to remain stable in that for hundreds of years by a lot of luck), i see no reason why it wouldn't be treated the same way

I mean democracies don't last that long. An autocracy can carry a grudge for a long time. Look at the Mongols they resented the Chinese for hundreds of years and they finally got the upper hand.

No, war reparations are meant to compensate for damage done. Again, you are applying the logic of western internal ideological debate to international politics outside of the West.
What's the financial mechanism for paying them is a technical detail that's up for negotiation.

If the financial mechanism is whatever you want then yeah you can just take the funds Russia has in foreign nations and you can call it reparations, Russia will call it theft. But yeah you can get funds.

If he uses nukes or gets some truly miraculous degree of success.

In a war between Russia and Nato the most likely two options are either Russia launches nukes first, or they pull back and accept the loss. Because the west does have the conventional advantage. Hopefully the Russian leadership is smart enough to think ahead and worry about what happens because if they attack the Baltics and it's a war like this they would have to take the loss and lose face domestically. With Ukraine it's diffrent because it's not an offical NATO member so they feel they can keep going, with NATO they could not so they would be smart enough to see the worst case and not fuck with NATO.

Russia doesn't have the same strike policy as the US you know

I know each nation has their own policy that are a little diffrent but the broad strokes should be the same but what exactly are you saying.

France was as a warning. Not the same capacity as the US.
Whose strike policy is we can and will strike forst if the threat is valid.
And does Isreal?

Doesen't Israel have the sampson option where they would use nukes to hit everyone even neutral nations like Italy if they are losing conventionally to the Arabs? If anything thats the most extreme nuclear policy not just nuking someone because you are getting occupied(nuking the Arabs would be rational) but hitting every neutral you can.

 

[Marduk]

Law is based on force, International law has no force behind it so it has no more authority than I do.

Technicalities, you could say the same about any other law or custom. It's just paper, until some state or other organization decides to throw their power, soft or hard, behind it.
In this case, we can be pretty sure a lot of trade restrictions will be put on the line at least.

No, Iraq got fucked up by America. The common people were better off under Saadaam. America made everything worse. The only nations that America made better are Korea, Germany, and Japan.

LMAO. Saddam was a typical shithole dictator.

File:Iraq GDP per capita 1950-2008.png - Wikimedia Commons

commons.wikimedia.org

Saddam fucked up Iraq, USA only messed around with the wreckage.

I mean if they do it and Russia doesen't respond with some extreme thing like nukes yes.

Well they can pay and not have that dillema.

But you are the one who is mixing morality and legality. As I said above international law is based on morality because it is not real law.

Until America or someone decides to enforce it for this or that reason, and then you are going to whine that America fucked up Iraq and owes it money even though it didn't really.

I mean democracies don't last that long. An autocracy can carry a grudge for a long time. Look at the Mongols they resented the Chinese for hundreds of years and they finally got the upper hand.

Neither democracies nor autocracies can physically last beyond a lifetime. Nations do, and if the grudge becomes part of their culture, they can carry it.

If the financial mechanism is whatever you want then yeah you can just take the funds Russia has in foreign nations and you can call it reparations, Russia will call it theft. But yeah you can get funds.

Welp, that's one way that it can go that the western side and Ukraine would be fairly content with.

In a war between Russia and Nato the most likely two options are either Russia launches nukes first, or they pull back and accept the loss. Because the west does have the conventional advantage. Hopefully the Russian leadership is smart enough to think ahead and worry about what happens because if they attack the Baltics and it's a war like this they would have to take the loss and lose face domestically. With Ukraine it's diffrent because it's not an offical NATO member so they feel they can keep going, with NATO they could not so they would be smart enough to see the worst case and not fuck with NATO.

I would not be completely sure they would not fuck around with something that's between open war and angry staring over the border.

 

[Bacle]

Well, now Russian media is calling for invading/'liberating' their 'brotherly Finnish people'.

Winter War 2.0, this time Article 5 flavored? Simo Hayha's ghost has got to be itching to put down more Russian invaders.

 

[Tiamat]

Well, now Russian media is calling for invading/'liberating' their 'brotherly Finnish people'.

Winter War 2.0, this time Article 5 flavored? Simo Hayha's ghost has got to be itching to put down more Russian invaders.

In the context of everything going on and Russia's overall performance in Ukraine, the Fins are likely sharing some good kilju and laughing their asses off as they watch this.

 

[Zachowon]

From what I understand that show is considered a joke even by Russians.

 

[Megadeath]

In the context of everything going on and Russia's overall performance in Ukraine, the Fins are likely sharing some good kilju and laughing their asses off as they watch this.

I still maintain that if we could magically zap away the nuclear issue, Poland alone could probably drive through to Moscow and occupy it at this point.
Whilst that might be sorta debatable, the mere fact that it is hangs a lampshade on how ridiculous the Russian nationalist fear mongering about the danger of NATO is.
If Russia starts attempting to simultaneously invade another country conventionally at this point I'll probably die laughing. Even Kazakhstan could probably tell them to take a hike if they set out to liberate Baikonur

 

[King Arts]

I still maintain that if we could magically zap away the nuclear issue, Poland alone could probably drive through to Moscow and occupy it at this point.
Whilst that might be sorta debatable, the mere fact that it is hangs a lampshade on how ridiculous the Russian nationalist fear mongering about the danger of NATO is.
If Russia starts attempting to simultaneously invade another country conventionally at this point I'll probably die laughing. Even Kazakhstan could probably tell them to take a hike if they set out to liberate Baikonur

In your dreams globohomo westerner. Russia would massacre any other Army it faces against. A Russian soldier is worth at least 40 other soldiers from any other nation. Russia will take over everything, All hail Russia!

 

[Typhonis]

In your dreams globohomo westerner. Russia would massacre any other Army it faces against. A Russian soldier is worth at least 40 other soldiers from any other nation. Russia will take over everything, All hail Russia!

On the actual battlefield or in World of Tanks or War Thunder?

 

[King Arts]

On the actual battlefield or in World of Tanks or War Thunder?

In everything @Agent23
Come tell us about the glory of Russia!

 

[Cherico]

In the context of everything going on and Russia's overall performance in Ukraine, the Fins are likely sharing some good kilju and laughing their asses off as they watch this.

The finns like the balts and the poles are on the list of people to be invaded anyways.

 

[King Arts]

The finns like the balts and the poles are on the list of people to be invaded anyways.

But they deserve it because they helped the Nazis in world war 2.

 

[Cherico]

But they deserve it because they helped the Nazis in world war 2.

right its april fools, good megadeath impression by the way.

 

[Largo]

Just barely, they paid and now there are still some people saying it's not enough. Look up any thread about comfort women or whatever on spacebattles.

An argument over how much Japan should compensate the rest of Asian for its WW2 actions is not the same as an argument over whether Japan should do so, no how much you want to try and conflate the two.

 

[King Arts]

An argument over how much Japan should compensate the rest of Asian for its WW2 actions is not the same as an argument over whether Japan should do so, no how much you want to try and conflate the two.

You are right. Japan should keep paying for the things it did while it was allied with the Nazis 80 years ago.

 

[Cherico]

You are right. Japan should keep paying for the things it did while it was allied with the Nazis 80 years ago.

My rule of thumb is that a grudge should only be held for a maximum of 100 years so yes I will forgive Germany sometime in 20 plus years