Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Bacle]

Looks like Putin is getting Russia ready for a 'Forever War', so any idea that there will be peace or 'normalized relations' with Russia even after they are driven out of Ukraine seems...naive.

Best guess we get a new Korean DMZ-style situation along the Russian/Ukrainian/Belarusian border after the Russian's are forced out of Ukraine.

Till Putin is gone, Russia will be and remain an international pariah, and even after he's gone Russia will be paying reparations to Ukraine for decades.

 

[mrttao]

and even after he's gone Russia will be paying reparations to Ukraine for decades.

facepalm.
ah yes. nothing will ever go wrong with that one.

 

[Bacle]

facepalm.
ah yes. nothing will ever go wrong with that one.

If Russian's didn't want to be stuck paying for the damage they have done to Ukraine, then they shouldn't have let Putin do this.

A palace coup before the invasion could have saved everyone a lot of pain, suffering, and loss.

Now the Russia people are going to be paying for Putin's, and their, actions for decades to come.

 

[mrttao]

If Russian's didn't want to be stuck paying for the damage they have done to Ukraine, then they shouldn't have let Putin do this.

... putting aside how ridiculous this statement is.
You are not replying to what you actually quoted. and that is that the consequences of doing things that way.

Attempting to saddle Russia with crushing reparations payments will just results in a new boogaloo a decade down the line.

We have seen it happen before, with how germans being saddled with crushing reparations after WW1 directly lead to the rise of hitler.
Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Also how are you going to enforce reparations payments on a nuclear power?

 

[Bacle]

... putting aside how ridiculous this statement is.
You are not replying to what you actually quoted. and that is that the consequences of doing things that way.

Attempting to saddle Russia with crushing reparations payments will just results in a new boogaloo a decade down the line.

We have seen it happen before, with how germans being saddled with crushing reparations after WW1 directly lead to the rise of hitler.
Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Also how are you going to enforce reparations payments on a nuclear power?

No, we are more likely to see something closer to what he Kim family has done in it's isolation and inward hysteria, not Hitler's rise.

Though I guess it all depends on how Putin leaves power, who replaces him, and whether that person is more delusional or less than Putin has been.

Edit:


The idea that Russian's don't support what Putin is doing, or shouldn't hold any blame for his actions (which they often support) is farcical.

Banning Russians who support Putin from international events and organizations needs to happen ASAP.

 

[King Arts]

No, we are more likely to see something closer to what he Kim family has done in it's isolation and inward hysteria, not Hitler's rise.

Though I guess it all depends on how Putin leaves power, who replaces him, and whether that person is more delusional or less than Putin has been.

Edit:


The idea that Russian's don't support what Putin is doing, or shouldn't hold any blame for his actions (which they often support) is farcical.

Banning Russians who support Putin from international events and organizations needs to happen ASAP.

Can we ban Americans who supported Iraq, or the Vietnam wars or Afghanistan or whatever then?

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Can we ban Americans who supported Iraq, or the Vietnam wars or Afghanistan or whatever then?

I mean, you could have. However, the Olympics would have lost A LOT of money. So...it didn't happen.

 

[King Arts]

I mean, you could have. However, the Olympics would have lost A LOT of money. So...it didn't happen.

The Olympics isn't about money, it's supposed to have two reasons. The first was suppose to get people to stop fighting that's what the Olympic truce was all about in Ancient Greece. The second is competition between nations.

Banning Russia, or China, or America is stupid and makes you pathetic.

A nation should only be banned if they are cheating or something like that.

 

[Marduk]

The Olympics isn't about money, it's supposed to have two reasons. The first was suppose to get people to stop fighting that's what the Olympic truce was all about in Ancient Greece. The second is competition between nations.

Banning Russia, or China, or America is stupid and makes you pathetic.

A nation should only be banned if they are cheating or something like that.

Ironically, they don't plan on stopping fighting and they are also infamous for cheating, so makes sense.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

The Olympics isn't about money, it's supposed to have two reasons. The first was suppose to get people to stop fighting that's what the Olympic truce was all about in Ancient Greece. The second is competition between nations.

Banning Russia, or China, or America is stupid and makes you pathetic.

A nation should only be banned if they are cheating or something like that.

I never said that anyone should be banned.

All I indicated is that a lot of money wouldn't get funnelled to the Olympics if the US was banned from participating.

 

[King Arts]

Ironically, they don't plan on stopping fighting and they are also infamous for cheating, so makes sense.

Now Russia refusing to a truce with Ukraine while the Olympics are ongoing or cheating. That is worthy of banning them.
Though how do they cheat, there are supposed to be international referees who are neutral?

 

[Marduk]

... putting aside how ridiculous this statement is.
You are not replying to what you actually quoted. and that is that the consequences of doing things that way.

Attempting to saddle Russia with crushing reparations payments will just results in a new boogaloo a decade down the line.

We have seen it happen before, with how germans being saddled with crushing reparations after WW1 directly lead to the rise of hitler.
Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

If you want to continue this argument, well, why is there no Hitler 2 after the reparations Germany had to pay as a result of WW2?

Also how are you going to enforce reparations payments on a nuclear power?

Treaties, punitive trade tariffs.

Now Russia refusing to a truce with Ukraine while the Olympics are ongoing or cheating. That is worthy of banning them.
Though how do they cheat, there are supposed to be international referees who are neutral?

Yes, funny enough, Russian leadership are not fans of any of those.

IOC condemns Russia for violating ‘Olympic Truce’ with Ukraine invasion

Organization notes 193 UN member states agreed to global armistice from February 4 to March 13 during Winter Olympics and Paralympic Games

www.timesofisrael.com

Russia denies state-sponsored doping ahead of new key report

Russia's new anti-doping chief Vitaly Smirnov told WADA on Sunday that the country had “never had a state-sponsored system of doping” as the date for the publication of a new special report into alleged Russian cheating was announced.

www.reuters.com

Putin Defends Russian Figure Skater At Center Of Winter Olympic Doping Scandal

Russian President Vladimir Putin has defended teenage figure skater Kamila Valieva, who was at the center of a doping scandal at the Beijing Winter Olympics.

www.rferl.org

World Anti-Doping Agency accuses Russia of widespread cheating at Olympics | December 9, 2016 | HISTORY

On December 9, 2016, the World Anti-Doping Agency details a vast “institutional conspiracy” involving Russian officials and more than 1,000 athletes in systematic doping at major athletic competitions, including the Olympics. A second WADA report says the conspiracy involves the Russian Sports...

www.history.com

 

[LordsFire]

... putting aside how ridiculous this statement is.
You are not replying to what you actually quoted. and that is that the consequences of doing things that way.

Attempting to saddle Russia with crushing reparations payments will just results in a new boogaloo a decade down the line.

We have seen it happen before, with how germans being saddled with crushing reparations after WW1 directly lead to the rise of hitler.
Those who do not learn from history are bound to repeat it.

Also how are you going to enforce reparations payments on a nuclear power?

First off, that isn't what caused World War 2.

Second off, not forcing some sort of consequences on Russia will just encourage them to try again later.

Third off, as Marduk said, you require them in order for trade relations to normalize.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

Till Putin is gone, Russia will be and remain an international pariah, and even after he's gone Russia will be paying reparations to Ukraine for decades.

I distinctly remember this happening before...It's on the tip of my tongue but it evades me!

 

[Cherico]

The only way you're going to get Russia to pay repetitions is to get to Moscow and conquer Russia which isn't going to happen best Ukraine can get is to kick Russia out.

 

[Marduk]

The only way you're going to get Russia to pay repetitions is to get to Moscow and conquer Russia which isn't going to happen best Ukraine can get is to kick Russia out.

There is the option of attaching the reparations to any future deals to restore trade with the West. They may not like it, but if they have to choose between that and never returning to the lucrative status quo...

 

[King Arts]

There is the option of attaching the reparations to any future deals to restore trade with the West. They may not like it, but if they have to choose between that and never returning to the lucrative status quo...

Then they may decide to not trade with the west anymore and will only trade with China, or Africa, or India.
The west is more likely to want to open trade, as they have used force all over the world to open borders to trade from Japan, to South America.

 

[Marduk]

Then they may decide to not trade with the west anymore and will only trade with China, or Africa, or India.

So they will self-impose those sanctions anyway just to not pay an extra 10-30% overhead?
If that's how far they will go, it's definitely deserved and necessary.

The west is more likely to want to open trade, as they have used force all over the world to open borders to trade from Japan, to South America.

Then it shall use its time traveling powers to get back to the world of 2 centuries ago and trade with it.
Many things have changed since then...

 

[King Arts]

So they will self-impose those sanctions anyway just to not pay an extra 10-30% overhead?
If that's how far they will go, it's definitely deserved and necessary.

Lol you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. They must pay reparations, if they refuse no matter what. Then it's neccessary and we must virtue signal and they deserve to pay reparations.

Then it shall use its time traveling powers to get back to the world of 2 centuries ago and trade with it.
Many things have changed since then...

Again most nations won't want to virtue signal if they can just do bussness and get cheaper gas. It's like Japan and apology over ww2 stuff. The right thing to do is not acknowledge it like Germany. Turkey also does this.

 

[Marduk]

Lol you are trying to have your cake and eat it too. They must pay reparations, if they refuse no matter what. Then it's neccessary and we must virtue signal and they deserve to pay reparations.

How do they not owe reparations for all the damage done in Ukraine by their military?
If they want to refuse at any cost and be unwilling to settle the matter for good, complete with paying what they owe, then they need to be treated accordingly - it's basically a North Korea situation in that case.

Again most nations won't want to virtue signal if they can just do bussness and get cheaper gas. It's like Japan and apology over ww2 stuff. The right thing to do is not acknowledge it like Germany. Turkey also does this.

Cheaper gas that's cheaper only because it's sanctioned - Russia was never a charity and always sold it at best price market would take, unless favors were involved, but then one paid with a piece of sovereignty. Acknowledge it or not, apologize or not, Japan still had to pay reparations, and not just to USA.

War reparations - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org