Well guess that was a reconciliation too by your logic.
It may have had something to do with Germany which was always pro-Russian being in that group despite Kaliningrad not bordering Germany, lol.
Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
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History Learner
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No, because Biden didn't go to Russia for a bilateral summit in which his speech was to say they forgave Russia and were ready to move on their relations. The U.S. were not deepening their ties with Russia either.
Okay? And Poland went along with it.
Have fun looking for the quote where a Polish president actually says that.
Poland goes along with a lot of things it doesn't like in the EU.
History Learner
Well-known member
If you would read the articles I cite, you would know I already did:
Nevertheless, Kaczyński had intended to respond to Putin’s gesture. The text of the speech that he was preparing to deliver says: “Let us finally heal the wound of Katyn. We have already started out on this road. We Poles appreciate what has been done by Russians in recent years.”
If you recall, this was the original point of contention between me and ATP.
Congratulations on cutting context to try make small gestures look like a general reconciliation.
For comparison, what you claimed:
History Learner
Well-known member
Because it was a big effort, as you note they only started holding these joint bilateral deals when the reconciliation started? Likewise, we know from his remarks your President at the time was going to say it was time to put Katyn behind them and begin moving forward with Russian relations.
Which is exactly what I said? Biden didn't do that, Lech was planning to. You're not very good at this, Marduk.
I don't need you rewording that speech to serve your axe grinding better than it really does, which isn't good, which in turn is why you have put this effort to reword it.
Gesture or big effort, pick one. Even the politico article admits that it was not going particularly well due to Russia sticking to Soviet era line on this matter.
And neither did Lech.
"We have already started out on this road " =\= "yay reconciliation has happened, all is forgiven".
History Learner
Well-known member
Given I cited his statements verbatim, I don't think you understand what axe grinding is, unfortunately.
Both, given the gesture came in the context of a big effort, as you phrase it. Likewise, it also notes this:
In Katyn, Putin placed the crime within the context of “Stalinist repressions” and the “nightmare of the civil war, forced collectivisation, the 1930s purges”. He sought to bind together Russia and Poland as “those two European nations that have suffered practically all the tragedies of the 20th century”.
The bit you quoted was about May 9th celebrations.
Well, when you're making up claims, anything is true. I've already cited Lech was putting Katyn behind them in their relations, that reconciliation was a completed process was never claimed.
"start of the road" is a beginning of something implied to be a long and uncertain way ahead, not a successful reconciliation. In fact referring to events after the crash in fact the relations didn't get worse right after it.
History Learner
Well-known member
I'm not sure how Lech could be referring to events after his death?
1.He go to postsoviets to remind world,that soviets murdered polish prisoners.And died for that.
2.PIS is party made of socialists,so they support EU.And they are stupid,too,becouse UE mean germany now,and they want destroy us.
3.&4 - no soviets parties,but either serving germans/PO/ or whatever pay more/germans now - Lewica,PSL/
And germans ordered them support postsoviets,BECOUSE THEY ARE POSTSOVIET ALLIES.
You should notice it by now,after haw they "supported" Ukraine.
@ATP did you see the latest State Propaganda the Russians are spouting? That this is now an forever war and will not end until the "American Empire and its NATO puppets have been crushed by the Might of Mother Russia!" That about face is amusing. For two years before the invasion Putin boasted Russia would take Kyiv in a day. Now it's the return of the "Great Patriotic War and every citizen must sacrifice for Mother Russia!"
Government criticism is allowed unless you mention Putin. If you criticize Putin directly you accidentally fall from the nearest rooftop.
Latest update from Denys.
Anyone know anything more about the new B-21 stealth bomber? Is it as capable as the USAF is touting? If the Russians are having trouble with the F-22 the B-21 should be invisible to the Russians and Chinese.
Government criticism is allowed unless you mention Putin. If you criticize Putin directly you accidentally fall from the nearest rooftop.
Latest update from Denys.
Anyone know anything more about the new B-21 stealth bomber? Is it as capable as the USAF is touting? If the Russians are having trouble with the F-22 the B-21 should be invisible to the Russians and Chinese.
Top Secret basically besides what they chose to release.
We know it is supposed to be better in stealth and capabilities besides lower bomb load then the B2
Yes,it is amusing.But,they are postsoviets,and they supposed to use soviet-like propaganda.
I read some book in Poland few years ago,about powerpuff putin who conqer Poland with T.14 tanks,loosing only 20 of them.Alternate History novel - funny,what author would wrote now.If i only remember his name!
But,jokes aside - IT IS FUCKING KGB.THEY COULD HAVE HIDDEN ARMY,AND WAIT FOR RIGHT HOUR.
So,there is still possible,that they would take world,or at least Europe.
But - i would not bet much money on it.
I doubt it. Russia produces 6 cruise missiles a month. They used 72 missiles, an entire year of production yesterday and 90% were shot down.
They have no equipment for a hidden army. The troops are starving and freezing to death in the trenches with civilian hunting camo clothing. Their officers send them fight to the death orders as they abandon their soldiers and flee to the rear.
Meanwhile Putin just threatened to nuke the Yellowstone supervolcano. What a delusional twit.
Correction. Putin's propaganda puppets threatened nuking Yellowstone. But since it's state TV he would not have said it without orders from the top
I knew that,but - they are FUCKING KGB.They supposed to have super plan to take over world.If any other country behaved like them,i would be sure that they lost -
But,kgbstan is different,becouse they are secret services running country.They do not care,how many peons would die,as long as they would win in the end.
Putin is KGB. All the Old Guard who ran the KGB either got purged or fled when Putin took over. The little bastard was too paranoid to allow any threat to him to exist. A lot of the Old Guard wanted Putin to do what he was told. Putin killed them all.
Yeah. . . If Russia thinks massing troops in Belarus for a straight assault to Kiev will protect them they are delusional. Once those staging bases are filled Ukraine will bomb them to oblivion. They wont make that mistake twice. Belarus will be treated as a co-belligerent and get flattened.
The costs of Chinese friendship:
www.technology.org
Sanctions do work! Now you can get Chinese cars in Russia for the price of Mercedes - Technology Org
It seems economic canctions to work - judging by a sudden deformation of the Russian automotive market and a spike in car prices.
They already severed all easy connections to Belarus and set up a wall. So, um, yeah.
I just find it fucking hilarious that the former Russian satellite states, like Kazakhstan, are now looking at Russia and their threats of "de-Nazification" with gimlet eyes.
I mean, fucking hell, Russia is barely holding itself versus Ukraine: if Kazakhstan invaded, it's likely they could penetrate Mother Russia's ass like a pizza delivery guy does in a stereotypical porno. smh
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