The Turkoman Sultan wants presents, as is his custom!
Yeah, Russotriumphalism tends to have a limited shelf life when things aren't going so well, thankfully!
Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion
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The Turkoman Sultan wants presents, as is his custom!
Yeah, Russotriumphalism tends to have a limited shelf life when things aren't going so well, thankfully!
Points at a random member of the Nazi Party in Germany just before WW2. It was just one Nazi after all.......... Really dude stop drinking Russian Kool Aid.
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History Learner
Well-known member
Uh, so possibly breaking developments on a ongoing coup against Putin, from multiple sources.
Coup to remove cancer-stricken Putin underway in Russia, Ukrainian intelligence chief says
The Sunday Times recently reported that Putin has blood cancer, citing an unnamed Russian oligarch with close ties to the Kremlin.fortune.com
Putin coup is underway and 'impossible to stop,' says Ukraine's military intelligence chief
The process of overthrowing Russian President Vladimir Putin has started and can't be stopped, Ukraine's military intelligence chief told Sky News.www.businessinsider.com
Remember when the same Ukrainian sources (read that again, if you're trusting them as objective purveyors of truth lol) were saying Shoigu was plotting a coup and the Russians only had enough resources for another two weeks of war....in early March?
I never saw those reports, I saw that they thought Shiogu had a heart attack and might have died. He obviously didn't die, but even Russian state media admitted he'd had heart problems.
But do you remember when Russian sources claimed they had destroyed all of Ukraine's Bayaktars, which somehow still ended up helping trash their positions on Snake Island and are still trashing Russia's to this day?
You remember when Putin said no invasion would happen?
Because Pepperridge Farm remembers.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
The Russians lie, the Ukrainians lie; everyone lies. It's war; the first causality of which is always the truth. Because nobody involved actually cares what the truth is; all they care about, once the shooting starts, is winning.
Sure, the Ukrainians are going to lie a bit, particularly with regards to actual locations of troops. Plus, well, fog of war is a thing.
However, the fact is, OSINT people can confirm and corroborate most of Ukraine's claims and are picking massive holes in Russia's claims. It's also not Ukraine going that is restaging a few downed drones or captured ATGM to make it seem like they are taking out or capturing tons of equipment.
Even Russian state TV is no longer able to deny that things are going rather badly for them, and are only likely to get worse.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Perhaps; or perhaps your own bias is coloring your perspective.
You seem to forget I vocally and repeatedly said I thought the build up to the invasion wasn't going to result in anything, till the stuff at Chernobyl showed up, and am very well aware of how corrupt Ukraine is/was with shit like Burisma and the Biden's.
However, I know what sort of biases to look at and account for when trying to figure out the actual situation on the ground, and nothing I've seen shows Ukraine to be deciveing the international public more than Russia is trying to deceive it's own citizens.
I would recommend you go to the War College threads and read through some of the leaks that have come out of Russian social media channels and @planefag's excellent OSINT summaries.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
There's a reason I stopped going to those threads, and people like planefag are pretty much the reason why. I wouldn't trust anything that asshole has to say about anything.
Why?
No seriously, why is his detailed breakdowns on OSINT work, and trying to confirm reported combat losses and their effect on the strategic and tactical situations something that drives you away?
Are you just afraid to admit you might have been wrong about things? I was wrong about the invasion not happening, but I didn't stake my pride or ego on it, and when new evidence came to light, I changed my view to fit the new data.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
No; I just think planefag is an asshole with a blatantly obvious bias, and I don't trust him as a source.
He isn't the source, he is just someone who collects them and backs up every single statement with a source, often more then one.
He may be bias, but he is actually able to make good assessments compared to other people on here who are trying and have failed since day 1.
Burisma is pro russian.
Can you provide anything to counter his sources or disprove what he claims/shows?
I mean aren't you the one arguing with me about 'dispassionate discourse' in another thread?
You think planefag's sources are wrong about stuff, put in the ground work to prove it.
Burisma was a Ukrainian company when they did shady shit with Biden, and it was a phone call to Zelensky asking about it which caused Trump's first impeachment.
Let's not try to pretend Ukrainian oligarchs weren't also corrupt asshats who tried to screw their own country over to enrich themselves and curry favor with corrupt asshats in DC.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
I don't know whether or not his sources are wrong; but his rhetoric and behavior towards everyone who disagreed with him was enough for me to not want to listen to anything he has to say (which is the danger when you lean on emotions; sometimes, you piss off the people you're trying to convince). Keep in mind; all of my focus has been on events that happened before the conflict, and whether or not that justified the invasion (I think it did; but you and others have disagreed with me on that, and fair enough). I'm not interested in which side did what, or who's winning; I just don't think we have any business being involved.
Millions fleeing thier homes and thousands being murdered is not justified.
He shoots down arguments that are probably false
You can feel we have no business being involved, which with all the problems we have at home is not a position I find completely unreasonable. Thinking the invasion is justified at this point...you really should go take a look at which side has been committing tons of documented war crimes and lying to their own citizens about the 'special military operation'.
And you should not dismiss massive amounts of work and detailed analysis, not just on the current situation, but on how it lead to this situation, just because someone isn't humoring shills just because the shills are the 'underdog'.
The underdog in a fight is not always the righteous side, and people who ignore reality because it doesn't fit Kremlin propaganda aren't worth more than detailed dunkings using evidence and mockery for being the shills they are.
And I guarantee you, you very much should care who does what here and who wins here, because if things go wrong (aka Russian goes even more retarded and tries for Poland or the Baltics) this fight may not stay confined to Ukraine.
I'll blunt, I think you are being stubborn and prideful in how you are dismissive of much of what is going on in this situation, simply because you are loath to admit you're wrong about things that are happening.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
What exactly do you think my opinions are about the things that are supposedly happening beyond "I don't know whether or not any of this is true, and I find it hard to believe any source"? Also, there's a difference between saying the invasion was justified, and saying the actions taken during the invasion are justified; and I have no recollection of arguing the later.
The war crimes being committed were often planned as part of the invasion; the Russian's went in there planning to do heinous shit and damn near reenact the Holomodor.
Here, even have a helpful link to documented war crime and how they fit into Russia's overall plans for Ukraine. This section only goes to April 7th, but should prove just how monstrous the Russian military is acting and on purpose.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Fair enough; but considering everything our country is guilty of, I don't think we have much room to criticize them. I'm sure they have their justifications for it; just as we had for all of our attacks on innocent civilians, including children.
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