Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[LordsFire]

One interesting, yet virtually unseen facet of this war is that since 2014 Ukraine was reliant (more than before that is) on IMF loans to function and since the war started it got much worse. Not to mention that while Europe is sending weapons to Ukraine for free, USA is sending weapons on loan, further deepening the debt hole the Ukraine is. And with all talk of helping Ukraine, there is no talk of easing their debt, so it can be fully expected that the country will get fucked hard once the war is over. The biggest asset the country has is some of the most fertile agricultural lands in the world, the state owns or has options on most of it and it is the kind of asset that corporations/billionaires, with connections in Washington, crave.
It wouldn't be much different from how USA picked the UK to the bones in exchange for lend-lease.

I can see what you're getting at here, however I also have a counter-question regarding Lend-Lease, both for the UK and the now.

Should people not be expected to pay for their own defense?

 

[Arch Dornan]

I can see what you're getting at here, however I also have a counter-question regarding Lend-Lease, both for the UK and the now.

Should people not be expected to pay for their own defense?

Everyone loves freebies.

 

[DarthOne]

 

[Bacle]

Edit: Also:

 

[Iconoclast]

What a tremendous shitshow:

Inside NATO Bio-Lab in Ukraine

NATO laboratory in Mariupol was burned on the first day of the start of the war.

odysee.com

 

[Bacle]

So this is why Rand Paul did not vote for the Ukraine aid package; no oversight mechanism. Which is a fairly reasonable request to be put into said aid package, and lack of it is a reason I could accept for why he would not vote for it.

 

[LordsFire]

So this is why Rand Paul did not vote for the Ukraine aid package; no oversight mechanism. Which is a fairly reasonable request to be put into said aid package, and lack of it is a reason I could accept for why he would not vote for it.

For once, we agree on something.

 

[Arch Dornan]

What a tremendous shitshow:

Inside NATO Bio-Lab in Ukraine

NATO laboratory in Mariupol was burned on the first day of the start of the war.

odysee.com

So that's what one of the labs looked like.

 

[Zachowon]

They arnt bio weapon and even lower level then that of Wuhan

 

[Iconoclast]

They arnt bio weapon and even lower level then that of Wuhan

All I can really see are what look like a few autoclaves and some glassware and stuff. I don't see any spray dryers or anything you'd expect in a bioweapon lab, and given the layout, it's got to be a fairly low biosecurity level. Looks like an ordinary microbiology lab to me, to be honest.

The slit-like windows, like gun ports, are a little odd. It's also odd how quickly they destroyed everything and carted off their samples.

 

[Zachowon]

All I can really see are what look like a few autoclaves and some glassware and stuff. I don't see any spray dryers or anything you'd expect in a bioweapon lab, and given the layout, it's got to be a fairly low biosecurity level. Looks like an ordinary microbiology lab to me, to be honest.

The slit-like windows, like gun ports, are a little odd. It's also odd how quickly they destroyed everything and carted off their samples.

It is ex Soviet. Thier design.
And yeah. Every lab there are ex Soviet and probably had little to no actual lab work or just simple stuff.

 

[Bacle]

*Article 5 meme* goes here.

 

[Tiamat]

*Article 5 meme* goes here.

My first instinct would be to chalk it up to "politicians saying stupid things".

My second thought would be "NO, that's a deliberate threat right there, remind said moron of Article 5 of the NATO treaty." Considering Poland's own history with Russia, I don't think they take such threats lightly.

 

[lloyd007]

My first instinct would be to chalk it up to "politicians saying stupid things".

My second thought would be "NO, that's a deliberate threat right there, remind said moron of Article 5 of the NATO treaty." Considering Poland's own history with Russia, I don't think they take such threats lightly.

If it was Putin himself saying it or the entire Duma voting for it, that would be one thing, but as it is it's just your first instinct.

 

[planefag]

If it was Putin himself saying it or the entire Duma voting for it, that would be one thing, but as it is it's just your first instinct.

Indeed. As we all know, in a brutal dictatorship where regime-critical journalists routinely commit autodefenestration, government officials routinely go off and issue genocidal threats to NATO member nations without authorization or permission from higher authorities.

 

[lloyd007]

Indeed. As we all know, in a brutal dictatorship where regime-critical journalists routinely commit autodefenestration, government officials routinely go off and issue genocidal threats to NATO member nations without authorization or permission from higher authorities.

This is the exact opposite of dissidence, it's nothing more than reinforcement of the domestic party line narrative.

 

[Megadeath]

This is the exact opposite of dissidence, it's nothing more than reinforcement of the domestic party line narrative.

Yes, that's the problem. When the official party line is "You're next!" coming from a country that's shown they will launch aggressive military action on the flimsiest of pretext, you'd be an idiot to ignore or laugh it off.

 

[paulobrito]

Well, to be fair in the US you also have politicians - like the late John McCarty - that said idiotic things like that time and again.

 

[PsihoKekec]

We had the current POTUS saying Putin should not stay in power and senator calling for his assassination, not to mention how back in 2003, after invasion of Iraq, American politicians openly championed for invasion of Syria and Iran. So we could say that the two countries are not that different, they just use different excuses for the things they do.

 

[Bacle]

Well, to be fair in the US you also have politicians - like the late John McCarty - that said idiotic things like that time and again.

We had the current POTUS saying Putin should not stay in power and senator calling for his assassination, not to mention how back in 2003, after invasion of Iraq, American politicians openly championed for invasion of Syria and Iran. So we could say that the two countries are not that different, they just use different excuses for the things they do.

Seriously?!

This is a direct and deliberate threat to current NATO member that Russia has already fucked over for decades after WW2.

Do you really think playing the 'whatabout' game is going to matter worth a damn if Russia actually makes a move against Poland directly? Piss on the US for our mistakes all you want, but do not pretend Poland does not have every reason to take this threat seriously.