Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[WolfBear]

We have an entire unit of the U.S. military posted there doing full spectrum activities including equipment and training centers at a facility. Let's be honest and call a spade a spade because that is a base.

A unit is just how many men?

Poland has been the one constantly pushing for anti-Russian policies within the EU and supporting Ukraine.

Can't blame the Polonkadonks when they have an over two-centuries-long history of tasting Russian shit!

 

[History Learner]

If that's true (considering your previous chatposting, quite an odd excuse to use), why not a month? Hell, give your family a whole year, why do you care for shilling Putin instead? Why that coincidental timing?

Or, better idea, you go look at my posting history and see for the past month I almost solely post on Mondays and Tuesdays. Or you can continue with these dumbass takes, I find them amusing.

As we all know anarcho-communist organizations go great with Labour supporting media.

Stop being a kek and read the dates and places. The location shifted ownership quite recently, while the supposed order is from a week ago.
Obviously it wasn't a massive production, that would imply a better quality video for one, it was an amateur hour.

You're a bad faith take.

Except they were able to use the weather in the video to discern it was indeed recorded around the 26th; can you show me a source that claims that location changed hands within the past week? Again, can you stop being a hack and explain why the Russian order you're holding up as evidence is signed in Latin script but wrote in Cyrillic, an obvious discrepancy in style? As for amateur hour, it's odd you classify it as such when the meta data was scraped off of it; again, another inconsistency that shows its real.

It's further notable that not even civilian Ukrainian authorities are dismissing it out of hand as you are. As I've said before, you're an absolute joke for carrying water for obvious war crimes.

 

[Spartan303]

Wow...if this is true...

 

[Agent23]

Wow...if this is true...

Dunno, Doc Turley has the habit to hyperbolize and over-exaggerate quite often, he is too eager to give people white pills.
Will watch tomorrow.

 

[Spartan303]

Dunno, Doc Turley has the habit to hyperbolize and over-exaggerate quite often, he is too eager to give people white pills.
Will watch tomorrow.

He's often right though. Not always. But I'd practically believe anything about CIA and NSA at this point until they're cleared out.

 

[Marduk]

Except they were able to use the weather in the video to discern it was indeed recorded around the 26th; can you show me a source that claims that location changed hands within the past week?

Have you even read your own source?
It claims the prisoners were taken there on 25th.
Other sources claim the village was fully taken over on 27th or 28th.
So we know there was fighting there around that time.

Ukrainian defenders liberate Vilkhivka village near Kharkiv

Ukrainian defenders liberated the village of Vilkhivka, a few kilometers of Kharkiv, killing about 70 occupiers and taking captive another 27. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

'Caught Them by Surprise': Ukraine Troops take Kharkiv Village - News18

Ukraine launched its attack on the Russian-controlled village last week, but it took several days to root out Moscow's troops hiding in cellars and nearby forests

www.news18.com

Ukraine forces retake village outside Kharkiv | News24

Ukrainian forces recaptured a small village on the outskirts of Ukraine's second-largest city Kharkiv, as Kyiv's forces mount counterattacks against a stalling Russian invasion.

www.news24.com

So we are talking several days between the supposed order and the filming.

Again, can you stop being a hack and explain why the Russian order you're holding up as evidence is signed in Latin script but wrote in Cyrillic, an obvious discrepancy in style? As for amateur hour, it's odd you classify it as such when the meta data was scraped off of it; again, another inconsistency that shows its real.

How can you tell the script in such half-assed signature handwriting anyway?
Why would Ukrainians use Latin script even when they use Cyrillic in their own language?

It's further notable that not even civilian Ukrainian authorities are dismissing it out of hand as you are. As I've said before, you're an absolute joke for carrying water for obvious war crimes.

Because its their job to investigate first to be sure.
Your own preferred source seems that they have no conclusive evidence of who is even pictured doing the supposed war crime.

The accents of the captors are consistent with them being Ukrainians from the east of the country. That, however, does not confirm they are Ukrainian soldiers - it remains possible they could be pro-Russian separatists from this region.
They're also wearing uniforms with blue armbands as used by Ukrainian forces, although again this is by no means conclusive.

 

[Cherico]

He's often right though. Not always. But I'd practically believe anything about CIA and NSA at this point until they're cleared out.

I think he's correct but not in time frame. I think he's off in his predictions by decades.

 

[History Learner]

Have you even read your own source?
It claims the prisoners were taken there on 25th.
Other sources claim the village was fully taken over on 27th or 28th.
So we know there was fighting there around that time.

Ukrainian defenders liberate Vilkhivka village near Kharkiv

Ukrainian defenders liberated the village of Vilkhivka, a few kilometers of Kharkiv, killing about 70 occupiers and taking captive another 27. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

'Caught Them by Surprise': Ukraine Troops take Kharkiv Village - News18

Ukraine launched its attack on the Russian-controlled village last week, but it took several days to root out Moscow's troops hiding in cellars and nearby forests

www.news18.com

Ukraine forces retake village outside Kharkiv | News24

Ukrainian forces recaptured a small village on the outskirts of Ukraine's second-largest city Kharkiv, as Kyiv's forces mount counterattacks against a stalling Russian invasion.

www.news24.com

So we are talking several days between the supposed order and the filming.


How can you tell the script in such half-assed signature handwriting anyway?
Why would Ukrainians use Latin script even when they use Cyrillic in their own language?



Because its their job to investigate first to be sure.
Your own preferred source seems that they have no conclusive evidence of who is even pictured doing the supposed war crime.

Indeed I have read the source, but it's clear you haven't or you proving my point again about you being a hack. Namely, you mind find it worthwhile to actually know what village we are talking about before attempting to argue on it:

By Sunday evening, a Twitter user had suggested the video was filmed in a dairy plant in Malaya Rohan, to the south east of Kharkiv. The BBC has used geo-location tools to confirm the location. The area had recently been re-taken by Ukrainian troops from Russian forces.​

​

Vilkhivka is several kilometers to the North of the location so, again, can you verify to me that Malaya Rohan was taken over by the Russians and retaken by the Ukrainians consistent with the timeframe in question? Let's also run through what you've posted so we can really drill home just how lame and pathetic your lying here is:

• We have a location confirmed to be behind Ukrainian lines.
• We have fighting to the North where the Ukrainians claim they took about two dozen prisoners.
• We have a video where the war criminals depicted are speaking Russian in Ukrainian accents.
• They have Ukrainian uniforms and identifying armbands.
• The atrocity occurred in Kharkov province, which has no active separatist forces.
• Neither Ukraine, Russia, the LPR, or DPR claim the latter two have forces there.

So we have all of this, and you really want to advance the theory it is was done by the Russian separatists? I know you're being a hack at this point, but do you really want to double down on this stupidity? You don't even know what the village in question is, so I'm not going to be surprised if its a yes but that really just proves the point home for me of how out of reality on this you are.

As for the "document", I never advanced the claim it was produced by the Ukrainians, you did and I specifically noted it came from the Anarcho Communists of Anonymous. If you're going to take the position its too sloppy to tell the hand writing on it is in Latin script, despite the fact you can literally enlarge it to see it in cursive (which doesn't exist in Cyrillic btw), then perhaps you should take a second to examine the document in full and realize there is no supporting evidence to it? Like, I don't know, a physical copy or signs it was scanned to be uploaded? Associated meta data too, since that is much harder to forge than the aforementioned?

Or you can continue being comically wrong like a modern day Baghdad Bob. That's fine, but I'm going to continue pointing out how much of a joke your arguments and position are.

 

[SchrodingersWehraboo]

So you had to spend a week waiting to reply so that Putinists could take their time to fake some war crimes poorly? You poor sod...



And you of all people calling people bigots while shilling for BBC, how hilarious.
After shilling fake right wing movements on the forum, you yet again prove yourself to be a great connoisseur of fake things.

That “leaked document” is fake, and proof aside that fact that it comes from CIA asset anonymous is reason enough to doubt it:



Nice Qanon-tier schizo “breakdown” video from reddit btw. Reminds me of the “christchurch debunked” videos on bitchute where people ironically enough seem to have gotten their ideas of what happens when a human body is hit by bullets from Hollywood and Video games.

 

[Marduk]

Indeed I have read the source, but it's clear you haven't or you proving my point again about you being a hack. Namely, you mind find it worthwhile to actually know what village we are talking about before attempting to argue on it:

By Sunday evening, a Twitter user had suggested the video was filmed in a dairy plant in Malaya Rohan, to the south east of Kharkiv. The BBC has used geo-location tools to confirm the location. The area had recently been re-taken by Ukrainian troops from Russian forces.​

​

Vilkhivka is several kilometers to the North of the location so, again, can you verify to me that Malaya Rohan was taken over by the Russians and retaken by the Ukrainians? Let's also run through what you've posted so we can really drill home just how lame and pathetic your lying here is:

• We have a location confirmed to be behind Ukrainian lines.

You clearly didn't read the last link that mentions it specifically.

Ukrainian forces on Monday recaptured a small village on the outskirts of Ukraine's second-largest city Kharkiv, as Kyiv's forces mount counterattacks against a stalling Russian invasion.


Members of the Ukrainian army were clearing and securing destroyed homes in the settlement of Malaya Rohan, about five kilometres from Kharkiv, after pushing out Russian forces.

AFP journalists saw what appeared to be the bodies of two Russian soldiers in the streets of the village that was largely destroyed by the fighting.

Recaptured on Monday. Yeah, doesn't look good for the theory that its real, as the video came out earlier than that...
So either Ukrainians filmed their war crime behind enemy lines or at best in a contested area, or it was done earlier, by those who were holding it.

• We have fighting to the North where the Ukrainians claim they took about two dozen prisoners.
• We have a video where the war criminals depicted are speaking Russian in Ukrainian accents.

So could be LPR\DPR inhabitants, as they specifically speak east Ukrainian accented Russian.

• They have Ukrainian uniforms and identifying armbands.

You can get that. I can get that. Anyone can, especially in a warzone where both sides take prisoners and facilities every now and then.

• The atrocity occurred in Kharkov province, which has no active separatist forces.
• Neither Ukraine, Russia, the LPR, or DPR claim the latter two have forces there.

And here's the fun part where knowing things from before the conflict can come handy.

Donbas ‘conscripts’ into Russia’s army could be deployed to fight Ukrainians

While Russia claims that Ukraine is failing to comply with the Minsk Accord, it is actively creating a situation where a significant number of young Ukrainians from Donbas could, in principle, be liable for conscription into the Russian army

khpg.org

A large number of DPR and LPR residents from the last few years were granted Russian citizenship, and as such, were legally and practically suitable for conscription and contract service in Russian military.
And then there are Wagner mercenaries, specifically recruiting from that region, including from the ranks of separatists:

War in Ukraine: How Russia is recruiting mercenaries

Social media channels and private messaging groups are being used to recruit, the BBC has learned.

www.bbc.com

Wagner mercenaries are a quite plausible unit to assign recording fake war crimes to.

So we have all of this, and you really want to advance the theory it is was done by the Russian separatists? I know you're being a hack at this point, but do you really want to double down on this stupidity? You don't even know what the village in question is, so I'm not going to be surprised if its a yes but that really just proves the point home for me of how out of reality on this you are.

I do know, wanted to show the changing of hands in the region.

As for the "document", I never advanced the claim it was produced by the Ukrainians, you did and I specifically noted it came from the Anarcho Communists of Anonymous. If you're going to take the position its too sloppy to tell the hand writing on it is in Latin script, despite the fact you can literally enlarge it to see it in cursive (which doesn't exist in Cyrillic btw), then perhaps you should take a second to examine the document in full and realize there is no supporting evidence to it? Like, I don't know, a physical copy or signs it was scanned to be uploaded? Associated meta data too, since that is much harder to forge than the aforementioned?

Umm, now you are just making shit up.
No cursive in Cyrillic?

Владимир Путин и Александр Лукашенко на заседании Высшего госсовета утвердили 28 союзных программ

belros.tv

Clearly Russia and Belarus governments sign their documents wrong. You need to tell them.

 

[History Learner]

You clearly didn't read the last link that mentions it specifically.

Recaptured on Monday. Yeah, doesn't look good for the theory that its real, as the video came out earlier than that...
So either Ukrainians filmed their war crime behind enemy lines or at best in a contested area, or it was done earlier, by those who were holding it.


So could be LPR\DPR inhabitants, as they specifically speak east Ukrainian accented Russian.


You can get that. I can get that. Anyone can, especially in a warzone where both sides take prisoners and facilities every now and then.


And here's the fun part where knowing things from before the conflict can come handy.

Donbas ‘conscripts’ into Russia’s army could be deployed to fight Ukrainians

While Russia claims that Ukraine is failing to comply with the Minsk Accord, it is actively creating a situation where a significant number of young Ukrainians from Donbas could, in principle, be liable for conscription into the Russian army

khpg.org

A large number of DPR and LPR residents from the last few years were granted Russian citizenship, and as such, were legally and practically suitable for conscription and contract service in Russian military.
And then there are Wagner mercenaries, specifically recruiting from that region, including from the ranks of separatists:

War in Ukraine: How Russia is recruiting mercenaries

Social media channels and private messaging groups are being used to recruit, the BBC has learned.

www.bbc.com

Wagner mercenaries are a quite plausible unit to assign recording fake war crimes to.


I do know, wanted to show the changing of hands in the region.


Umm, now you are just making shit up.
No cursive in Cyrillic?

Владимир Путин и Александр Лукашенко на заседании Высшего госсовета утвердили 28 союзных программ

belros.tv

Clearly Russia and Belarus governments sign their documents wrong. You need to tell them.

You're full of it dude, and these pathetic attempts to get out of it are becoming more and more comical in how wrong and bullshit they are. Let's see what your source actually says:

AFP journalists also observed remnants of several Russian armoured vehicles abandoned in the yards of homes in the village.​

​

Ukraine launched its attack on the Russian-controlled village in the middle of last week, but it took several days to rout Moscow's troops hiding in cellars and nearby forests, the military said.​

​

"Our troops are liberating Malaya Rohan, and this is hugely important because Russian troops are constantly shelling residential areas of Kharkiv from there," the mayor of Ukraine's second-most populated city, Igor Terekhov said earlier.​

So no, you got the basic detail of when the counter-attack even happened wrong; once again, are you being a hack or am I forced to conclude you really just don't even read what you post?

In Malaya Rohan, the situation was relatively calm on Monday, with the deep sounds of shelling in the distance.​

​

An advisor to the head of the president's office, Oleksiy Arestovich, said that Ukrainian forces were counter attacking against invading Russian troops in the northeast, referring to small, tactical offensives.​

The weather places the event on Saturday, the situation in the village was calm by Monday with the front several kilometers away and the article specifically noting clearing operations in the woods and in cellars were going on in the days before; how exactly are the Russians supposed to be conducting an hours long propaganda exercise among the Ukrainian Army doing clearing operations with no one noticing? Seriously dude, very basic thinking would suggest what actually happened here.

As for the other specifics, no one-not the Ukrainians, the Russians or the LPR/DPR-claim the latter have forces there. If the Russians deployed Wagner with LPR/DPR citizens-because claiming they used conscripts is not backed up by any evidence at all and thus can be dismissed out of hand-becomes even more questionable of claim because how exactly do they get them there and get set up for the propaganda exercise in the middle of the Ukrainians clearing the village out?

You're contorting yourself into so many knots it's hilarious at this point, and invalidating yourself by not even being able to get basic details right. As for the forged paperwork, that's already been disproven but I'm eagerly awaiting an explanation of why a link to Belarussian TV is supposed to confirm the authenticity of Russian documents.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

All those neocons and warmongers with boners are super mega excited about the fact that half the population of America is about to be wiped out

 

[History Learner]

All those neocons and warmongers with boners are super mega excited about the fact that half the population of America is about to be wiped out

Given they recently claimed Shoigu had been fired, I find it odd he's residing in a nuclear bunker lol. That's what has driven me absolutely mad about this conflict; the amount of outright lies made are bad enough, but then when easily disproven in many cases, the complete refusal to even stop and evaluate based on that, to admit error, or anything. It's a never ending of propaganda being made to cater to the exact same fucks that got us into Iraq while playing to the political sympathies of a Left driven wild by years of Russiagate and a Right that turns into good sockpuppets as long as you utter a few choice words.

It's insanity, and it's going to get us all killed.

 

[Marduk]

You're full of it dude, and these pathetic attempts to get out of it are becoming more and more comical in how wrong and bullshit they are. Let's see what your source actually says:

AFP journalists also observed remnants of several Russian armoured vehicles abandoned in the yards of homes in the village.​

​

Ukraine launched its attack on the Russian-controlled village in the middle of last week, but it took several days to rout Moscow's troops hiding in cellars and nearby forests, the military said.​

​

"Our troops are liberating Malaya Rohan, and this is hugely important because Russian troops are constantly shelling residential areas of Kharkiv from there," the mayor of Ukraine's second-most populated city, Igor Terekhov said earlier.​

So no, you got the basic detail of when the counter-attack even happened wrong; once again, are you being a hack or am I forced to conclude you really just don't even read what you post?

Lol, and now you are mendaciously twisting terms between the issue of when the counter-attack happened and who controlled territory. Obviously Ukraine couldn't control the territory when the counter-attack started, they had to be launching it against enemy controlled territory. Until the "clearing" was at least mostly done we can hardly talk of fully controlling the territory.

In Malaya Rohan, the situation was relatively calm on Monday, with the deep sounds of shelling in the distance.​

​

An advisor to the head of the president's office, Oleksiy Arestovich, said that Ukrainian forces were counter attacking against invading Russian troops in the northeast, referring to small, tactical offensives.​

The weather places the event on Saturday, the situation in the village was calm by Monday with the front several kilometers away and the article specifically noting clearing operations in the woods and in cellars were going on in the days before; how exactly are the Russians supposed to be conducting an hours long propaganda exercise among the Ukrainian Army doing clearing operations with no one noticing? Seriously dude, very basic thinking would suggest what actually happened here.

Weather, on a low quality, short video at that, is not a foolproof, unique identifier of time, you know...
Do you have evidence that there was no similar weather at all in earlier week or two?
You know, when they were controlling the area yet there was no fighting there?
Since when is that video hours long?

As for the other specifics, no one-not the Ukrainians, the Russians or the LPR/DPR-claim the latter have forces there. If the Russians deployed Wagner with LPR/DPR citizens-because claiming they used conscripts is not backed up by any evidence at all and thus can be dismissed out of hand-becomes even more questionable of claim because how exactly do they get them there and get set up for the propaganda exercise in the middle of the Ukrainians clearing the village out?

As if Russia would be blasting to the whole world that they used conscripts even though its kinda sorta illegal by their law to do so even when they do.

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-admits-sent-young-conscripts-175114980.html

Which part of village was being cleared and which still was held by Russia at that point?
No one knows.

You're contorting yourself into so many knots it's hilarious at this point, and invalidating yourself by not even being able to get basic details right. As for the forged paperwork, that's already been disproven but I'm eagerly awaiting an explanation of why a link to Belarussian TV is supposed to confirm the authenticity of Russian documents.

3\10 for poetry attempt and pretending you forgot about your stupid cursive comment.

 

[History Learner]

Lol, and now you are mendaciously twisting terms between the issue of when the counter-attack happened and who controlled territory. Obviously Ukraine couldn't control the territory when the counter-attack started, they had to be launching it against enemy controlled territory. Until the "clearing" was at least mostly done we can hardly talk of fully controlling the territory.

In which case you've invalidated your own argument by talking about control of the territory lol. At least be consistent if you're going to make comically bad arguments. Your own article notes the counter-attack happened last week, clearing operations were occurring over the past few days and were totally over by Monday with the front in the distance.

Weather, on a low quality, short video at that, is not a foolproof, unique identifier of time, you know...
Do you have evidence that there was no similar weather at all in earlier week or two?
You know, when they were controlling the area yet there was no fighting there?
Since when is that video hours long?

Actually it is, because if there is only one day that week that was sunny and mostly clear, then yes, we can determine the video was taken that day as opposed to days it was raining/snowing no? And yes, I can; the BBC, if you had actually read the article, pulled the weather data. If you had actually read the article, you would know the videos went on for sometime given it was an interrogation of prisoners and went on long enough for them to die of shock and blood loss.

As if Russia would be blasting to the whole world that they used conscripts even though its kinda sorta illegal by their law to do so even when they do.

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-admits-sent-young-conscripts-175114980.html

Which part of village was being cleared and which still was held by Russia at that point?
No one knows.

That's a lot of words to say your claim was bullshit and now you're backtracking from it because it's obvious bullshit, which really fits most of what you claim. "No one knows", then you sure as shit have no room to be talking about it being a false flag.

3\10 for poetry attempt and pretending you forgot about your stupid cursive comment.

I'm still waiting for an explanation on the Belarussian TV being applicable to Russian documents, but the fact you're no longer arguing for the authenticity of the document is sounding loud and clear lol. While you're at it, can I get an apology for the insinuations about my posts you made earlier and never mentioned again after I pointed out I only post on Mondays or Tuesdays lol? You dropped that real fast, but I didn't forget.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Given they recently claimed Shoigu had been fired, I find it odd he's residing in a nuclear bunker lol. That's what has driven me absolutely mad about this conflict; the amount of outright lies made are bad enough, but then when easily disproven in many cases, the complete refusal to even stop and evaluate based on that, to admit error, or anything. It's a never ending of propaganda being made to cater to the exact same fucks that got us into Iraq while playing to the political sympathies of a Left driven wild by years of Russiagate and a Right that turns into good sockpuppets as long as you utter a few choice words.

It's insanity, and it's going to get us all killed.

Well that's my point, we don't know what's going on, this entire war is one gigantic false flag and it looks like it's all designed to cause a world war to keep the cattle from rising up and ousting their corrupt butchers.

They are pushing for nuclear war. We have users here cheering for it.

 

[SchrodingersWehraboo]

Given they recently claimed Shoigu had been fired, I find it odd he's residing in a nuclear bunker lol. That's what has driven me absolutely mad about this conflict; the amount of outright lies made are bad enough, but then when easily disproven in many cases, the complete refusal to even stop and evaluate based on that, to admit error, or anything. It's a never ending of propaganda being made to cater to the exact same fucks that got us into Iraq while playing to the political sympathies of a Left driven wild by years of Russiagate and a Right that turns into good sockpuppets as long as you utter a few choice words.

It's insanity, and it's going to get us all killed.

Christo Grozev also predicted that the Russian offensive would dissipate from ammo shortages 3 weeks ago. The nuttiness of these predictions should give anyone pause.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

When have silly issues like money, logistics and resources ever stopped Slav on Slav violence?

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Thank God for the New Right.

 

[Marduk]

In which case you've invalidated your own argument by talking about control of the territory lol. At least be consistent if you're going to make comically bad arguments. Your own article notes the counter-attack happened last week, clearing operations were occurring over the past few days and were totally over by Monday with the front in the distance.

So as i said, the area was contested. Yet for some reason they, whoever that is, are meant to be interrogating prisoners there, rather than away from the frontline.

Actually it is, because if there is only one day that week that was sunny and mostly clear, then yes, we can determine the video was taken that day as opposed to days it was raining/snowing no? And yes, I can; the BBC, if you had actually read the article, pulled the weather data. If you had actually read the article, you would know the videos went on for sometime given it was an interrogation of prisoners and went on long enough for them to die of shock and blood loss.

>that week
What about the earlier week?

That's a lot of words to say your claim was bullshit and now you're backtracking from it because it's obvious bullshit, which really fits most of what you claim. "No one knows", then you sure as shit have no room to be talking about it being a false flag.

Pure cope.
Can't know also doesn't mean its real. It does however make it suspicious as fuck.

I'm still waiting for an explanation on the Belarussian TV being applicable to Russian documents, but the fact you're no longer arguing for the authenticity of the document is sounding loud and clear lol.

No, its an obvious dunk at your comment about cursive.

While you're at it, can I get an apology for the insinuations about my posts you made earlier and never mentioned again after I pointed out I only post on Mondays or Tuesdays lol? You dropped that real fast, but I didn't forget.

You can kindly sod off with your excuses.
Or wait a moment, i need to search your post history.
What's that posting on Feb 2, 23 and 27? Doesn't seem like Mondays or Tuesdays to me...
You should have not mentioned it either. Would have worked better off for you.
Now you can sod off knowing that you tried to bullshit me again for no good reason and i found out, thanks to you pressing the matter.
So no, you can't get an apology, you can get a sod off and think of some less obvious bullshit.