Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Political Discussion

[Bacle]

Oh look, we get to the name calling. Brilliant.

I never claimed that Russia didn’t launch this war. As for who started it, that involves a whole lot of digging through the agreements Russia and Ukraine had beforehand; agreements that neither side fully went along with.

And your demonstrating why this damn war is still going on. It’s ‘my way or the highway’ all the way.Stop trying to pull the same crap the government has since WW2. ‘If you don’t blindly support the latest military-industrial venture, then you are sympathizing with THE ENEMY. Or are too stupid to know What’s Good For The World.

This is Ukraine's war for independence from Russia/Russian control, and the right to determine their own future, not just some 'MIC romp in the Sandbox'.

And I wouldn't feel the need to insult you if you had not repeatedly shown you do not actually care to know what is going on on the ground in Ukraine from any source that doesn't tell Kyiv it needs to prepare to surrender.

 

[LordsFire]

And your demonstrating why this damn war is still going on. It’s ‘my way or the highway’ all the way.Stop trying to pull the same crap the government has since WW2. ‘If you don’t blindly support the latest military-industrial venture, then you are sympathizing with THE ENEMY. Or are too stupid to know What’s Good For The World.

The war is going on for one and only one reason.

The Russians refuse to leave Ukraine.

That's it. That's literally it.


If the Russians left Ukraine, it wouldn't matter how much aid the US, NATO, or anyone else was giving them. It wouldn't matter how much NATO mobilizes in Eastern Europe.

The war would end. Russia would no longer be losing men and material at torrential paces. Their national security would no longer be threatened by their real and perceived strength and competence being destroyed on the international stage.

The only option available aside from fighting the Russians until they leave, is capitulating to Putin's demands, which will tell him that he made the right move, and he should do this again in a few years.

Claiming any other options remain on the table after Russia declared they've annexed eastern and southeastern Ukraine is to live in a fantasy land.

 

[mrttao]

What on earth makes you think I like Russia?!

The part where you are not a rabid zealot warmonger who wants to escalate at all cost.
there is a clear "you are with or against us" mindset going on lately

 

[ATP]

I mean yes, biblically the anti christ will lead the most powerful nation or lead a coalition that will dominate the world. That is suspiciously close to the west. It is the sole hyperpower that can exceed everyone else maybe even if they teamed up.

The Russians and Chinese. They are a diffrent type of evil. I'm not saying they are good, far from it. I'd be saying similar things if China was the one that was leading the world. The problem is that all of humanity is coalescing under one system. This would be less bad if we had better space technology so that groups could just fuck off to another asteroid in the solar system. But you yourself said because of our elections we are a bannana republic, well I think it's not good to let one bannana republic have an iron grip on humanity forever. Having two equal evils that are competing against each other is better than having one all powerful evil that is now free to direct it's attention on innocent people instead of fighting against the other evil.

I am catholic.And,i knew,that one day antichrist come.
But,it is not that time.We woud have signs of heaven and 3 days of darkness,when most of vicked die,but - not Antichrist yet.

And,you are right that USA had evil elite/Wall Street/,but they wanted gave Ukraine to Moscov,not defend them.
Remember Biden speech from 19.2.22? he basically gave Putin permission to take part of Ukraine.He lifted sanctions on NS2.
And where Putin attacked to take all,USA started sending real weapons after few months.
And even now do not send tanks or planes.
Why? becouse they do not want destroy kgb,only made deal with them.

So,Putin is not katechon - but idiot who refused deal with USA over Europe corpse,becouse wanted show world that he could take it by strenght of his arm.

Well,we could see how strong he is now.
You want blame somebody? blame kgb for fucking their army.Becouse any competent army would take Ukraine in 3-4 months in their place.

P.S do not fear,Democrats would never destroy Moscov - they need them.Somebody must genocide Poland,right?
And USA could not do that ,at least not now.
After few years lying about bad polish antisemites....

 

[Marduk]

Look, Ukraine is not a member of NATO. It is not an American ally.

Budapest Memorandum. Read it.

If the US wanted to say, sell them old weapons at a reduce cost or something, I’d be fine with that. But instead we gave them those weapons for free; weapons that NO ONE knows the exact were abouts of now.

Stop repeating the silly muh black market roundabout argument. Crappy, used up ex-soviet shit is even more likely to end up there (no clear source and low price is a bonus), but no one cares.

But we do have evidence that at least a not-insignificant amount of them ended up on the black market.

Can i see it?

Then there’s the billions and billions of dollars of aid that we’ve sent. Aid that, ONCE AGAIN, has vanished into thin air. Never mind that even before this war started, corrupt Western politicians used Ukraine and Zelensky to create their own private piggybanks and money-laundry schemes.

And that’s ignoring how Americans and Europeans are suffering because of idiotic leadership of their countries decided to get involved with seemingly little or no thoughts to the consequences.

In the words of Smedley D. Butler “War is a Racket.” And this one more so then most.

Remind me, what did Putin's professional mentors do in Vietnam, and how did that work out for them in terms of cost to effect ratio?

 

[Zachowon]

Budapest Memorandum. Read it.

Stop repeating the silly muh black market roundabout argument. Crappy, used up ex-soviet shit is even more likely to end up there (no clear source and low price is a bonus), but no one cares.

Can i see it?

Remind me, what did Putin's professional mentors do in Vietnam, and how did that work out for them in terms of cost to effect ratio?

He is talking about footage that is outdated and from I think Syria(?) Of what looks to be US good

 

[Terthna]

This is Ukraine's war for independence from Russia/Russian control, and the right to determine their own future, not just some 'MIC romp in the Sandbox'.

And I wouldn't feel the need to insult you if you had not repeatedly shown you do not actually care to know what is going on on the ground in Ukraine from any source that doesn't tell Kyiv it needs to prepare to surrender.

What exactly are you expecting to accomplish with insults though?

 

[PsihoKekec]

And I wouldn't feel the need to insult you if you had not repeatedly shown you do not actually care to know what is going on on the ground in Ukraine from any source that doesn't tell Kyiv it needs to prepare to surrender.

And that's different from you how exactly? You absolutely refuse to consider any source that is not approved by State Department and uncritically accept these sources, no matter how much they lie. Don't hate your mirror image just because it moved it's left hand when you moved your right.

 

[History Learner]

New poll signals Americans are growing tired of support for Ukraine without diplomacy as the war against Russia drags on

According to a poll conducted by the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress, 57% of likely voters strongly or somewhat support the US pursuing diplomatic negotiations as soon as possible to end the war in Ukraine, even if it requires Ukraine making compromises with Russia. Just 32% of respondents were strongly or somewhat opposed to this.​

​

And nearly half of the respondents (47%) said they only support the continuation of US military aid to Ukraine if the US is involved in ongoing diplomacy to end the war, while 41% said they support the continuation of US military aid to Ukraine whether the US is involved in ongoing diplomacy or not.​

​

The Biden administration and Congress need to do more diplomatically to help end the war, according to 49% of likely voters, while 37% said they have done enough in this regard, the poll showed.​

Likely a very big factor explaining both Trump and Musk getting behind Pro-Peace movement lately; it's politically popular, given 61% of Americans are now reporting economic pain related to the war.

 

[Marduk]

New poll signals Americans are growing tired of support for Ukraine without diplomacy as the war against Russia drags on

According to a poll conducted by the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress,​

>Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress,
Hello Soros Learner, congratulations on shilling an actual, honest to Marx Soros influence op.

Quincy Institute For Responsible Statecraft - InfluenceWatch

The Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft is a non-interventionist foreign policy advocacy organization founded in 2019 with support from two major political donors, liberal George Soros and libertarian Charles Koch. It officially launches in Fall 2019, though its existence was announced...

www.influencewatch.org

The Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft is a non-interventionist foreign policy advocacy organization founded in 2019 with support from two major political donors, liberal George Soros and libertarian Charles Koch. [1]

 

[History Learner]

>Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft and Data for Progress,
Hello Soros Learner, congratulations on shilling an actual, honest to Marx Soros influence op.

Quincy Institute For Responsible Statecraft - InfluenceWatch

The Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft is a non-interventionist foreign policy advocacy organization founded in 2019 with support from two major political donors, liberal George Soros and libertarian Charles Koch. It officially launches in Fall 2019, though its existence was announced...

www.influencewatch.org

Your capacity for self owns based on a desire to justify your own specific ethnic grievances is simply astounding :









Needed reminder that the Open Society Foundation helped organize the Maidan:

The International Renaissance Foundation, part of the Open Society family of foundations, has supported civil society in Ukraine since 1990. For 25 years, the International Renaissance Foundation has worked with civil society organizations defending human rights and justice, tackling corruption, supporting Ukrainian minorities including Tatars and Roma, pursuing health and education reform, and helping to facilitate Ukraine’s European integration.​

​

The International Renaissance Foundation played an important role supporting civil society during the Euromaidan protests. The foundation ensured that legal aid was made available throughout the crisis to civic activists, protesters, and journalists; supplied victims of violence with medical care; enabled civil society solidarity and organization; supported channels like Hromadske TV in independent, live reporting about events on the Maidan; and documented cases of torture, beatings, and police and courts abuse.​

 

[Marduk]

Your capacity for self owns based on a desire to justify your own specific ethnic grievances is simply astounding :









Needed reminder that the Open Society Foundation helped organize the Maidan:

The International Renaissance Foundation, part of the Open Society family of foundations, has supported civil society in Ukraine since 1990. For 25 years, the International Renaissance Foundation has worked with civil society organizations defending human rights and justice, tackling corruption, supporting Ukrainian minorities including Tatars and Roma, pursuing health and education reform, and helping to facilitate Ukraine’s European integration.​

​

The International Renaissance Foundation played an important role supporting civil society during the Euromaidan protests. The foundation ensured that legal aid was made available throughout the crisis to civic activists, protesters, and journalists; supplied victims of violence with medical care; enabled civil society solidarity and organization; supported channels like Hromadske TV in independent, live reporting about events on the Maidan; and documented cases of torture, beatings, and police and courts abuse.​

Self own? What, does what Soros thought half a year ago make this not a Soros influence op? As usual from ya, zero content, just childish rhetorical tricks.
Go shill for Soros cuck pacifists some more, like the "right winger" you are.
Of course Soros would make such controversial points through an influence op, not personally.

 

[DarthOne]

And that's different from you how exactly? You absolutely refuse to consider any source that is not approved by State Department and uncritically accept these sources, no matter how much they lie. Don't hate your mirror image just because it moved it's left hand when you moved your right.

Do not compare me to him. I actually do listen to both sides here; even if I admit I haven’t been doing such a great job at demonstrating that at the moment.

 

[History Learner]

Self own? What, does what Soros thought half a year ago make this not a Soros influence op? As usual from ya, zero content, just childish rhetorical tricks.
Go shill for Soros cuck pacifists some more, like the "right winger" you are.

Soros providing $500,000 in initial funding to this think tank in 2019 is something but $255 Million to Ukraine is nothing? An interesting concept, certainly proving my suspicions about your mathematical abilities:

​

In addition to expanding its direct funding of IRF, Open Society has also launched the Ukraine Democracy Fund. With an initial $25 million from Open Society, the fund seeks to raise $100 million with other independent funders to support and protect human rights organizations, independent journalists, and other civil society groups.​

​

Open Society has contributed over $230 million in grants to Ukraine, benefiting millions of people—including more project funding over the past decade than to any other country in Europe.​

​

Beyond Soros repeatedly tweeting his support of Ukraine this year, here's an interview with him from 2014 saying the same thing after the Maidan.

In May 2014, he spoke with CNN host Fareed Zakaria about his philanthropic efforts in relation to the conflict then occurring between Ukraine and Russia.​

​

Zakaria first asked about revolutions among Eastern bloc countries in 1989 that led to the end of communist regimes in Eastern Europe.​

​

“One of the things that many people recognized about you was that you, during the revolutions of 1989, funded a lot of dissident activities, civil society groups in Eastern Europe and Poland, the Czech Republic,” Zakaria said. “Are you doing similar things in Ukraine?”​

​

Soros responded: “Well, I set up a foundation in Ukraine before Ukraine became independent of Russia. And the foundation has been functioning ever since. And it played a — an important part in events now.”​

 

[PsihoKekec]

Do not compare me to him.

That was meant for you? Sorry, in all this back and fourth I must have lost trace who answered to whom.

 

[Marduk]

Soros providing $500,000 in initial funding to this think tank in 2019 is something but $255 Million to Ukraine is nothing? An interesting concept, certainly proving my suspicions about your mathematical abilities:

Not for Ukraine, for Soros influence op in Ukraine, learn to fucking read for once.
Soros donates even more money to his influence ops in America, does that make him a red blooded American patriot who supports USA?

​

​

Beyond Soros repeatedly tweeting his support of Ukraine this year, here's an interview with him from 2014 saying the same thing after the Maidan.

So fucking what?
>this year
WHEN this year? You can fuck off with these childish rhetorical tricks to make obviously
ridiculous things sound plausible.
Let's see, despite a war going on, he spends loads on influence ops there, obviously they aren't where he needs them to be politically. And now his US influence op shills for the typical pacifist cuck take on the situation. Coincidence? That's called pressure.

 

[History Learner]

Not for Ukraine, for Soros influence op in Ukraine, learn to fucking read for once.
Soros donates even more money to his influence ops in America, does that make him a red blooded American patriot who supports USA?

So what does that mean when Soros directly takes credit for playing a leading role in helping to foment the Maidan? I've directly quoted him on this and showed the Open Society Foundation admitting they played a leading role in the protests as a whole. I'm fully content to say Soros spent his money on influence operations, but whom did he spend it on? That's the part your loathe to admit here and it's why you're getting so angry; you're experiencing the cognitive dissonance of your own position in supporting the Maidan for being Anti-Russia.

So fucking what?
>this year
WHEN this year? You can fuck off with these childish rhetorical tricks to make obviously
ridiculous things sound plausible.

Marduk, sweetie, perhaps you should learn to follow your own advice and "learn to fucking read for once". All of that has already been shown to you; the when this year was the last quoted tweet:



March 24th is when they launched the fund with the initial $25 million.

Let's see, despite a war going on, he spends loads on influence ops there, obviously they aren't where he needs them to be politically. And now his US influence op shills for the typical pacifist cuck take on the situation. Coincidence? That's called pressure.

In his own words and on the OSF's own website, he/they admit to spending money on Ukraine since 1990. He directly called them an Open Society in the Tweets and a Liberal Democracy, so if they aren't where he wants them to be according to you, you now have to explain why he was saying they were months ago and as far back as 2014 was saying his influence was playing a leading role:



So, which way is it dear Marduk? You can't have it both ways here; you want nuance when it pertains to Ukraine but for me citing a poll on American public opinion you want guilt by association. Either all Soros-influenced things are bad or they are not, so choose wisely sweetie.

 

[Bacle]

What exactly are you expecting to accomplish with insults though?

What I am trying to accomplish is to get through to him how stupid his actions are in light of developments in the actual invasion thread, which he never seems to visit.

Likely because he doesn't want to see hard evidence of how much Ru propaganda he's sucked down and see evidence of how good the Ukrainian military is doing.

And that's different from you how exactly? You absolutely refuse to consider any source that is not approved by State Department and uncritically accept these sources, no matter how much they lie. Don't hate your mirror image just because it moved it's left hand when you moved your right.

No, I actually look through sources and get most of the stuff I post from OSINT accounts, and don't give a damn what the Deep State Dept thinks of them.

Of course, you would also know that if you came by the invasion thread to see what is actually going on, on the ground, and not just is the political arena or Ru-favoring channels.

And did you forget I wanted an OIG just for Ukraine, like Rand Paul wished for, to keep tabs on US/NATO equipment in the country?

Do not compare me to him. I actually do listen to both sides here; even if I admit I haven’t been doing such a great job at demonstrating that at the moment.

If you had been listening to 'both sides', you'd actually come by the invasion thread and see what is happening on the ground, not just parrot the contrarian-Right's anti-Ukraine political bullshit.

 

[Marduk]

So what does that mean when Soros directly takes credit for playing a leading role in helping to foment the Maidan? I've directly quoted him on this and showed the Open Society Foundation admitting they played a leading role in the protests as a whole. I'm fully content to say Soros spent his money on influence operations, but whom did he spend it on? That's the part your loathe to admit here and it's why you're getting so angry; you're experiencing the cognitive dissonance of your own position in supporting the Maidan for being Anti-Russia.

Your own link also states that Soros and his ops opposed the USSR...
He also opposes the CCP.

This comment is the crux of the claim that Soros admitted he’s behind upheaval in Ukraine. It’s not a secret that Soros’ Open Society Foundations funded projects in the 1980s aimed at “undermining the Communist Party’s grip on power,” as Politico put it several years ago.

Stick to your silly "Soros opposes Russia so Russia has to be a based bastion of conservative values" 12 year old smartass takes and eventually you're gonna become an actual communist party member to stick it to the libs.
Meanwhile i don't care for supporting old commies to stick it to new commies they are in a power struggle with, i hate both, ditto for any compromise deals of new commies with old commies, the more they fight the better.
I'm not getting "so angry", you are getting so stupid.

Marduk, sweetie, perhaps you should learn to follow your own advice and "learn to fucking read for once". All of that has already been shown to you; the when this year was the last quoted tweet:



March 24th is when they launched the fund with the initial $25 million.

My point exactly. It was half a fucking year ago. Long before the pacifist cuck article you have linked. Perhaps, idunno, Soros changed his mind for some reason?

In his own words and on the OSF's own website, he/they admit to spending money on Ukraine since 1990. He directly called them an Open Society in the Tweets and a Liberal Democracy, so if they aren't where he wants them to be according to you, you now have to explain why he was saying they were months ago and as far back as 2014 was saying his influence was playing a leading role:

So? Since when are they spending money on USA?

So, which way is it dear Marduk? You can't have it both ways here; you want nuance when it pertains to Ukraine but for me citing a poll on American public opinion you want guilt by association. Either all Soros-influenced things are bad or they are not, so choose wisely sweetie.

It's a poll by shitty Soros influence op. Why do you choose to shill that poll over any other?
Are you suggesting that Soros influence op polls are more trustworthy than others?
Oh, wait, i know, it's because the Soros influence op agrees with your preassumed views.
Meanwhile in a current Reuters poll:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-10-05/three-in-four-americans-say-u-s-should-support-ukraine-despite-russian-threats

 

[LordsFire]

Meanwhile in a corrent Reuters poll:

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-10-05/three-in-four-americans-say-u-s-should-support-ukraine-despite-russian-threats

Notably here, like most left-aligned media groups, Reuters are generally left-biased.

However, like most long-running left-aligned media groups, they also know that they can't warp their polling too far from what actual opinions are, or they'll completely destroy their credibility. Even if we assume that this poll is 5-10% off what an unbiased sample and questions would get you in the poll, that still shows solid majority support.

Which fits the general trend of 'Russia's invasion of Ukraine is bad' being about the only thing the left and right agree on these days, even if there is disagreement on how much to support the Ukrainians.