Skallagrim
Well-known member
Cut off all access to food and water and impose conditions for surrender that you believe to be impossible
I think "I plan to kill them" is a perfect description of the plan outlined above, notwithstanding that the plan is hypothetical. But I have been wrong before on things I thought were equally obvious, so I invite you to correct me.
I "believe" it impossible because I'm writing this months after the fact, and we now know that many hostages were brutally murdered on short notice. So, in retrospect, I can write about something I know "believe" to have been a certain way, because we know it was that was.
We didn't know that then. And I outlined the above suggestion at least twice before in this thread, including shortly after the terrorist acts that murdered thousands and instigated the conflict, and then proposed returning the hostages as a condition. Whivh I still firmly believe should have been a hard condition, because taking hostages must never be rewarded.
"Return them all alive" is a fully reasonable request.
In retrospect, we know it was impossible, because they never took the hostages in (relatively) "good faith", but went on a rape-and-murder bonanza right away. So writing in retrospect, I can say that the inevitable result would have been that we all know they can't meet these criteria, so the consequences of their monstrous actions are... their own demise. Additionally, I also indicated that I don't believe Hamas would surrender even if they had the hostages alive, because they're that fucking stupid. Which is entirely their own fault.
To summarise:
1) The long-standing aggressor in this conflict initiated this round of the conflict by way of an unprovoked attack on civilian targets that killed thousands.
2) This aggressor took hostages.
3) Unbeknownst to anyone at the time, they raped and murdered a bunch of them right away.
4) We have ample video evidence (and loudly stated opinions, and poll data) to show beyond doubt that the vast supermajority of Gaza's populace happily, eagerly and festively reacted to all of this... and participated in it. (Note that all freed hostages tell of being kept in the homes of supposedly "normal citizens" of Gaza.) The Gazans are thus culpable to the same degree as the Germans for Hitler and the Japanese for Tojo. Reprisals against all Gazans are thus as justified as the bombings of Dresden and Munster, or Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
5) This being the case, reasonable demands in response should include the return of all hostages alive, and the unconditional surrender of Hamas. These are by no means unreasonable goals, and represent the bare minimum of what's acceptable as a response.
6) To force compliance, I outlined steps (the only steps) that would work to ensure it.
7) After the fact, it has become clear that Hamas and the vast majority there that supports them is even more monstrous than most imagined, and that meeting the minimum conditions would be outright impossible, because they already compounded their numerous war crimes by yet more irreperable violations.
8) Due to this, the reasonable demand that I outlined would have, entirely due to horrific actions of the aggressors themselves, have unavoidably led to the annihilation of Gaza.
9) While regrettable, this would be their own fucking fault. Nobody asked them to butcher civilians. Nobody asked them to take hostages. Nobody suggested they should rape and murder a bunch of said hostages. They did that of their own accord. The consequences are on them.
10) "Fuck around and find out," as the saying goes.
Anyway, I'll justify myself on this no further. I'm convinced my position is both clear and morally just insofar as a position can be just in the chaos of a conflict. I don't claim it is pleasant, but that decisive action was (and due to nt having been taken, remains) necessary to break the enemy. If the enemy had not been a bunch of the vilest monsters ever to walk the Earth, this could then have been achieved by the infinitely preferable (and originally intended-by-me!) outcome of all hostages being released, Hamas fully surrendering, and a reasonable settlement being achieved. (I proposed deporting all disarmed Gazans to the West Bank, and all Jewish West Bank colonists to Gaza, as a reasonable first step to sorting things out.) That this was never possible only became clear after the fact. But I'll take no blame for the monstrosities of the Arabs, which bitterly made it so.
Their evil intentions will, I now clearly see, make the solution I've outlined inevitable. Delaying it is pointless cruelty, and I may be hard of heart at times, but I am not pointlessly cruel. I leave that to Hamas, and to their supporters, and to all the useful idiots whose lily-livered bullshit keeps delaying a clear end to this festering conflict. Whereas all my ideas have purely been in service of achieving that goal.
Here's the summary, for the real knuckle-heads who still somehow don't get it, in the form of a quote attributed to Golda Meir (although I'm always critical of those, on the internet):
“If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence. If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel.”
And that's the long and short of it.
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