'Climate Change' and the coming 'Climate Lockdown'

[Bacle]

you're basically telling cows "Thou shall not fart."

No, you just change their diet a bit to mean the farts have less methane in them.

Think of it as giving cows organic Beano as part of their diet.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

No, you just change their diet a bit to mean the farts have less methane in them.

Think of it as giving cows organic Beano as part of their diet.

and again, your basscially saying the diet nature gave them is not good enough. They have to be given artificial diets and vitamans to eat proper. Aren't these the same people that say climate change was man's fault in the first place. Is man the enemy or is nature the enemy? Pick a lane.

 

[Bacle]

and again, your basscially saying the diet nature gave them is not good enough. They have to be given artificial diets and vitamans to eat proper. Aren't these the same people that say climate change was man's fault in the first place. Is man the enemy or is nature the enemy. Pick a lane.

I know what I know, and I am a Registered Independent precisely because of the attitudes I see about the environment on the part of some many on the Right.

The Left isn't completely wrong on the environment, even if their solutions can often times make it worse. That's why we need to be trying to find the sane ways for the Right to address this shit. Take over the conversation and show the Dems to be hollow fools in regards to the environment, instead of denying shit is going on.

I have a geology degree, and I understand the process at work here.

I wish I had time to do a fucking TEDTalk and forward a copy of all my textbooks and notes to everyone, to help get layman up to speed, because it might help solve some communication issues. The Left do often blow things out of proportion, but there is often a core of truth in their concerns that at least warrants watching and planning about.

The whole damn debate over even the term 'climate change' is fucking retarded; the climate has always changed and will always change, the geological record proves this. I get this; a lot of people on the Left don't, or feel we are accelerating natural feedback cycles faster than normal biological process are usually capable of handling.

Also cattle have no 'natural diet'; they eat a lot of things in a lot of locations, and depending on what you want to feed the cow they taste vastly different. Compare Wagyu beef to feed lot beef to milk cow beef; all have different flavor profiles because they get different diets. Changing cattle's diet is something we've done since ancient times.

It also provides another economic opportunity the Right could go for; inland kelp farms and expanded coastal kelp farms. Kelp itself is really useful for helping preserve coastal ecosystems, and good management practices can provide a stable ecosystem while also providing a profitable enterprise that is environmentally friendly in a simple but impactful way.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I wish I had time to do a fucking TEDTalk and forward a copy of all my textbooks and notes to everyone, to help get layman up to speed, because it might help solve some communication issues. The Left do often blow things out of proportion, but there is often a core of truth in their concerns that at least warrants watching and planning about.

this is one of those times where whether you don't have time or not your going to have to make time and explain things in laymans terms with Peer reviewed evidence and sources. Otherwise people like me are going to dismiss it. The burden of proof is on you.

 

[Captain X]

@Bacle, at some point, you're going to have to realize that you've simply bought into leftist propaganda. The same push behind climate alarmism is the same push behind the COVID scare and the "Great Reset." It all serves the same globalist master.

 

[Marduk]

I know what I know, and I am a Registered Independent precisely because of the attitudes I see about the environment on the part of some many on the Right.

The Left isn't completely wrong on the environment, even if their solutions can often times make it worse. That's why we need to be trying to find the sane ways for the Right to address this shit. Take over the conversation and show the Dems to be hollow fools in regards to the environment, instead of denying shit is going on.

Also the left's framing and prioritization of issues can be wrong. See: the abovementioned foreign countries problem regarding all environmental issues of globally distributed nature.
The left is more than enthusiastic about turning such issues into self-flagellation initiatives, virtue signalling opportunities and thinly veiled global wealth redistribution programs.
If the right is to have any sensible place in debate about such issues, it still can't have any of that shit, rather than just picking which poison is least bad and acting moderate about the dosage.

Also cattle have no 'natural diet'; they eat a lot of things in a lot of locations, and depending on what you want to feed the cow they taste vastly different. Compare Wagyu beef to feed lot beef to milk cow beef; all have different flavor profiles because they get different diets. Changing cattle's diet is something we've done since ancient times.

Again, yet another case of "doesn't matter if USA does something about it, in the global scale of things". Brazil alone accounts for more than double of US cattle, and a lot of that probably gets imported to USA anyway.

What would be far more impactful if someone changed what India, South America and Africa feed their cattle, for which the agricultural, economic and political calculus is very different.

It also provides another economic opportunity the Right could go for; inland kelp farms and expanded coastal kelp farms. Kelp itself is really useful for helping preserve coastal ecosystems, and good management practices can provide a stable ecosystem while also providing a profitable enterprise that is environmentally friendly in a simple but impactful way.

If this was profitable on its own merits, people would be doing that already.
The right has no appetite to play even more silly subsidy games.

 

[Bacle]

this is one of those times where whether you don't have time or not your going to have to make time and explain things in laymans terms with Peer reviewed evidence and sources. Otherwise people like me are going to dismiss it. The burden of proof is on you.

I did provide links, and even those article get farther into the actual scientific papers, and parts of geological expereince/knowledge are not something that can be communicated via computer very well.

If I had a JSTOR account I'd be spamming links to actual hard science papers on stuff, the real nitty-gritty stuff that doesn't make the news because it's too full of jargon and/or only relevant to a small specialty. However database like JSTOR have high paywalls and I only know because of the access I had during college.

@Bacle, at some point, you're going to have to realize that you've simply bought into leftist propaganda. The same push behind climate alarmism is the same push behind the COVID scare and the "Great Reset." It all serves the same globalist master.

I'm not going to play along with the false narratives of the Right, any more than I will the false narratives of the Left.

This is a subject I know most here do not agree with me on, and I've made peace with that.

 

[LordsFire]

It Came From Beneath the Sea

Giant methane bubbles rising from the sea floor are capable of swamping a ship and sinking it, new research shows. The North Sea, which has a rich deposit of solid methane, is especially perilous.

www.wired.com

Right at the start:
Methane bubbles from the sea floor could, in theory, sink ships and may explain the odd disappearances of some vessels

Methane Bubbles Could Sink Ships - Slashdot

An anonymous reader writes "Joseph J Monaghan and David May, of Australia's Monash University, have proposed a novel theory for Bermuda-Triangle-like disappearance of ships at sea: They were swallowed in giant methane bubbles released by undersea vents. Monaghan & May point to sonar of a ship wr...

science.slashdot.org

"Joseph J Monaghan and David May, of Australia's Monash University, have proposed a novel theory for Bermuda-Triangle-like disappearance of ships at sea: They were swallowed in giant methane bubbles released by undersea vents. Monaghan & May point to sonar of a ship wreck that's sitting in the center of a known methane eruption site, and they've developed a mathematical model that predicts how an eruption could take down a ship

Thousands of Mysterious Holes Discovered on Seafloor Off California Coast

It is unclear how the holes were formed, although marine trash could partly be responsible.

www.newsweek.com

In research presented at the Fall 2019 meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco, the researchers say it is unclear how the pockmarks and MDs were formed.

The micro depressions, on the other hand, formed more recently, although, again, it is unclear how.

Massive release of methane gas from the seafloor discovered for the first time in the Southern Hemisphere

Gas hydrate is an ice-like substance formed by water and methane at depths of several hundred meters at the bottom of our oceans at high pressure and low temperatures. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, roughly 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide, and it is estimated that methane frozen in...

phys.org

"It has been estimated that there are more organic carbon in the form of methane in hydrates than in all fossil fuels combined. The leakage of methane could lead to a feedback loop in which the ocean warming melts gas hydrates resulting in the release of methane from the ocean floor into the water.

It's already happening on the small scale, and we know there are larger deposits. At minimum it is a risk to maritime traffic, and it is something that can do something about if we keep an eye on it.

Worse comes to worse, create giant refrigeration spikes and stick them in strategic loactions.

Embrace geoengineering and off-planet settlement, instead of trying to claiming shit isn't happening/it's all a hoax. At worst, we speed up space colonization and terraforming tech.
Do beavers defy God's will when they build beaver dams and alter their world in ways that end up in the geological record?

"In theory," "Proposed a novel theory," "It is unclear," "It has been estimated," "Could lead to."

You link a bunch of articles which are all speculation and possibilities, and then claim that 'it's already happening on the small scale' and 'we know there are larger deposits,' so we should 'embrace geoengineering' and outright move off of the planet to deal with this.


This is absolutely alarmism, based entirely on hypotheticals, which the sources you yourself link to demonstrate. Maybe in five or ten years what you are proposing will be substantiated, and if it is, then maybe some appropriate ways of reacting can be developed and implemented.

Right now, this is showing the exact same form and function as every other bit of eco-alarmism over the last sixty years. All flash, no substance, and demanding draconian social controls to deal with it.

You are wasting our time with this garbage.

 

[Bacle]

Right at the start:
Methane bubbles from the sea floor could, in theory, sink ships and may explain the odd disappearances of some vessels

"Joseph J Monaghan and David May, of Australia's Monash University, have proposed a novel theory for Bermuda-Triangle-like disappearance of ships at sea: They were swallowed in giant methane bubbles released by undersea vents. Monaghan & May point to sonar of a ship wreck that's sitting in the center of a known methane eruption site, and they've developed a mathematical model that predicts how an eruption could take down a ship

In research presented at the Fall 2019 meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco, the researchers say it is unclear how the pockmarks and MDs were formed.

The micro depressions, on the other hand, formed more recently, although, again, it is unclear how.

"It has been estimated that there are more organic carbon in the form of methane in hydrates than in all fossil fuels combined. The leakage of methane could lead to a feedback loop in which the ocean warming melts gas hydrates resulting in the release of methane from the ocean floor into the water.


"In theory," "Proposed a novel theory," "It is unclear," "It has been estimated," "Could lead to."

You link a bunch of articles which are all speculation and possibilities, and then claim that 'it's already happening on the small scale' and 'we know there are larger deposits,' so we should 'embrace geoengineering' and outright move off of the planet to deal with this.


This is absolutely alarmism, based entirely on hypotheticals, which the sources you yourself link to demonstrate. Maybe in five or ten years what you are proposing will be substantiated, and if it is, then maybe some appropriate ways of reacting can be developed and implemented.

Right now, this is showing the exact same form and function as every other bit of eco-alarmism over the last sixty years. All flash, no substance, and demanding draconian social controls to deal with it.

You are wasting our time with this garbage.

Ok, how about sources that should be closer to 'non-partisan' and 'it is happening'.

Off Siberia’s Arctic coast, the seafloor belches methane

And it's belching more than we had thought it was.

arstechnica.com

Climate crisis: Siberian heatwave led to new methane emissions, study says

Leak of potent greenhouse gas is currently small but further research is urgently needed, say scientists

www.theguardian.com

Also, how many sources and article do you want on the subject; would you be willing to pay for a JSTOR account for me to dive into to get you the nitty-gritty?

I could link and cite a hundred papers, and IT WOULDN'T MATTER, because like with the Dems and election irrgularities, a lot of the Right don't actually want to look at the data on the environment, they just want to call any environmental concern that exists beyond a single nations borders a 'hoax'.

 

[Captain X]

It's hilarious that "feed cattle seaweed" is being proposed as some kind of a solution when all this will do is make the price of beef skyrocket. Which fits right in with the crowd that wants all us peons to eat bugs while they make actual meat a luxury item only they can afford.

 

[Bear Ribs]

Also cattle have no 'natural diet'; they eat a lot of things in a lot of locations, and depending on what you want to feed the cow they taste vastly different. Compare Wagyu beef to feed lot beef to milk cow beef; all have different flavor profiles because they get different diets. Changing cattle's diet is something we've done since ancient times.

It also provides another economic opportunity the Right could go for; inland kelp farms and expanded coastal kelp farms. Kelp itself is really useful for helping preserve coastal ecosystems, and good management practices can provide a stable ecosystem while also providing a profitable enterprise that is environmentally friendly in a simple but impactful way.

While I'm in general agreement on the environment, this is insanity. The entire beef cattle industry is based on the fact that the great plains are covered in quick-growing grass that seems custom-designed for ruminants (they supported herds of bison so large they spread from one horizon to the other), which grows by itself and thus makes raising beef affordable. A small ration of grain is used for polishing off and adding a last few pounds, but it's that free grass that does all the heavy lifting.

There is no feed, period, that you can introduce that won't destroy the beef industry like a chainsaw murderer destroys a freshly devirginalized cheerleader, unless you can manage to reduce costs to "it grows itself, in the field, requiring no effort to produce nor transport to the cattle." There is no economic opportunity there, this is literally equivalent to wanting people to block out the sun to burn more candles. They won't do it, because sunlight is free, and the candles will cost so much in comparison that anybody who complies will suffer financial ruin.

Edit: And should add, there is no ecological threat from cow farts. Again, bison herds so vast you could see nothing but bison from one horizon to the other. Their farts did not destroy the ecology, nor did their feces and urine ruin the waterways, nor whatever other climate emergency requires destroying small farmers and ranchers this week. If your climate model does not include "millions of ruminants twelve feet tall and weighing upwards of 3,000 pounds do nothing harmful" your model needs to be revised to accommodate that.

 

[LordsFire]

Ok, how about sources that should be closer to 'non-partisan' and 'it is happening'.

Off Siberia’s Arctic coast, the seafloor belches methane

And it's belching more than we had thought it was.

arstechnica.com

Climate crisis: Siberian heatwave led to new methane emissions, study says

Leak of potent greenhouse gas is currently small but further research is urgently needed, say scientists

www.theguardian.com

Also, how many sources and article do you want on the subject; would you be willing to pay for a JSTOR account for me to dive into to get you the nitty-gritty?

I could link and cite a hundred papers, and IT WOULDN'T MATTER, because like with the Dems and election irrgularities, a lot of the Right don't actually want to look at the data on the environment, they just want to call any environmental concern that exists beyond a single nations borders a 'hoax'.

First link:
"As the permafrost melts, the frozen organic matter can start to rot, generating carbon dioxide and methane. If the thaw were to reach down to the depths where methane hydrates are present, they could release their molecular prisoners too. "

"The researchers have discovered a number of these bubbling plumes, but it’s difficult to figure out just how important they are to the total amount of methane escaping from the Siberian Shelf. "

"Even in this area of intensive study, the picture isn't clear. We have no idea yet if the methane release from the Siberian Shelf is increasing or perfectly in line with what it’s been doing for the past few thousand years. "

Second article:

"Emissions of the potent greenhouse gas are currently small, the scientists said, but further research is urgently needed."

"However, if the climate crisis worsens and temperatures continue to rise, large methane releases remain possibility in the long term and must be better understood, the scientists said."

Did you even read these? Because it looks like what 'doesn't matter' is what the actual articles say, and you are the one it doesn't matter to.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

Pippi Greenwoke has also visited Vancouver, peddling this kind of nonsense too.

Climate lockdowns has been mentioned by Trudope as well, though the very idea of being forced to give up on meat, especially red meat, does go well with the whole WEF's predictions of 2030, on the part of "meat being a treat instead of a staple diet".

 

[Simonbob]

@Bacle, my dad is 80 years old.

He's seen so many scares like this. Peak Oil, Peak Food, Global Cooling, Global Warming, Climate Change, and more.

They were all fake. All.


You have got to stop listening to con artists. There's a lot of real enviromental problems that could use your help, but these Global things are not worth your time.

 

[Bigking321]

Don't we know that the earth used to be much warmer than it is now? Like the whole planet was tropical with no ice caps or something?

I think I remember seeing something like that on tv.

And then the climate changed and we had the ice age and glaciers nearly to the equator and stuff.

I think earth will be fine whatever climate socialists want to claim from week to week.

If you are on the same side as the insane socialist authoritarians on pretty much any issue, you are on the factually incorrect, lying, evil side.

 

[Rocinante]

Don't we know that the earth used to be much warmer than it is now? Like the whole planet was tropical with no ice caps or something?

I think I remember seeing something like that on tv.

And then the climate changed and we had the ice age and glaciers nearly to the equator and stuff.

I think earth will be fine whatever climate socialists want to claim from week to week.

If you are on the same side as the insane socialist authoritarians on pretty much any issue, you are on the factually incorrect, lying, evil side.

Well I mean, not that I agree with alarmists, but the idea is that major shifts like that cause major disruptions.

So yeah the human race would probably survive, but you'd see mass migrations and displacements, as things that are relatively stable right now collapse.

You think illegal immigration is bad now? Just wait.

That's their argument.

 

[Bigking321]

And I don't think anyone would argue that the climate changing wouldn't cause disruptions.

The argument is the cause (whether it's natural or caused by man) and the solution (giving insane socialists everything they want on a silver platter with no evidence whatsoever that it would help anything instead of leaving us in a dystopia where those same socialists rule with a iron fist and don't actually care about the environment at all just their power or not doing that and coming up with actual workable solutions like new technology or some such).

Don't get me wrong. There are environmental problems.

Local pollution levels. Over fishing. Improper land management. Ecological destruction. Dumping waste in rivers and oceans.

The problem is that the largest offender is China and China isn't a target of the left. America and the west is so that's where they spew their drivel and then give the biggest polluters a pass.

Screw the nebulous world is going to end unless we give up civilization and rights nonsense.

We can target specific problems that have specific causes and can actually be solved. Easily.

They just don't want to because that doesn't help them get power. They need the impossible to quantify problems with no confirmable cause with no realistic solutions because then they can fear monger and demand insane things because otherwise the world will end.

 

[Doomsought]

If they really cared about the environment, they would ask for the Chinese fish poaching fleets to be declared pirates.

 

[LordsFire]

If they really cared about the environment, they would ask for the Chinese fish poaching fleets to be declared pirates.

That sounds like an excellent idea.

 

[Scottty]

@Bacle, my dad is 80 years old.

He's seen so many scares like this. Peak Oil, Peak Food, Global Cooling, Global Warming, Climate Change, and more.

They were all fake. All.


You have got to stop listening to con artists. There's a lot of real enviromental problems that could use your help, but these Global things are not worth your time.