Except CO2 can be taken up by plants and animals for basic life functions.
That doesn't happen with methane.
'Climate Change' and the coming 'Climate Lockdown'
- Thread starter DarthOne
- Start date
That doesn't happen with methane.
But it is going to be gone within 10 years, or even 20 if you take a pessimistic view on its decay, still long before all but craziest apocalyptic scenarios have the slightest chance of appearing, if ever.
'Gone within 10-20 years' doesn't matter when more and more keeps getting dumped in all the time.
Bacle, I think you've embraced one of the tools of the climate hoax. Nothing I'm seeing shows methane as any sort of global threat. At least not from anyone I'd call unbiased or unpayed for their opinion/study.
Yeah, I fully expect people here to not believe it, even if basic chemistry and physics disagree.
This is why the Left has the driver seat on these issues, because even admitting their might be issues is damn near like pulling teeth on the Right.
On methane emissions
And it also means that means technological changes can impact the levels quickly, and if the situation becomes balls to the wall other means can also change the levels relatively quickly, compared to CO2 levels.
Besides, even more than CO2, you are falling for western green "WE must do something" psychological manipulation. Doesn't matter if it will even impact the problem to a meaningful degree, western countries must to do something, and once they do something, they must do something more, the more costly and onerous the better, because that's the point - it's economic self-flagellation.
Meanwhile in data:
Long story short, US methane emissions have fallen by about a fifth since the bloody 70's. But it doesn't matter, because while in western countries these emissions are stable or slowly falling, few third world countries are growing theirs at a truly breakneck pace. So, any "do something" strategies in the west, all crazy investment and regulatory sacrifices, even if they manage to achieve double digit percent results, are not going to have much effect in the real world, it will just make some ideological zealots feel good about themselves. If on the other hand you want to get something done on global scale, go yell at China, India, Iran, Pakistan, Indonesia and Brazil, or better yet, get them interested in similar ideology. Oh, wait, they don't give a fuck.
Let's assume you're correct for a moment.
When it comes to Methane, what can be done? Most of the items you listed earlier for methane release are part of natural processes, and most landfills in the developed world already use methane capture technology as released methane can be immediately used as a fuel to generate power. My local landfill, for instance, actually uses this methane capture to run an on site power plant that provides power not just to the landfill, but also contributes to the local power grid.
Further, this seems to fall into the similar problem with limiting carbon emissions. The primary country putting out Methane is China, and not by a small amount either. From the data I could find China put out three to four times more methane than the next largest contributor, which is Russia, with the US placing either fourth below China, Russia, and India (with Brazil nearly matching the US' production). Neither China nor Russia is going to seriously look at reducing their Methane emissions nor are India and Brazil, and as such once again we run into the same problem with Carbon... the largest contributors ASIDE from the US won't do anything... and when it comes to the numbers even if the US managed to reduce it's contribution to ZERO it wouldn't make enough of an impact all while severely reducing American standards of living and adding massive additional costs to energy, food, and waste disposal...
Landfill methane capture is a useful tool, and the local ones use it as well.
Cow farts...I talked about the seaweed diet option, which has been shown to cut methane production in bovine guts/farts.
As for sea floor releases, well we could work on trying to isolate and extract the methane beds before they release, but there are problems with fears trying to extracted it might cause whole deposits to let loose at once.
Permafrost methane is...yeah, not a lot we can do there besides try to put things on the permafrost to try to keep it insulated from rising air temps. But that's a double edged sword, because insulating it could increase it's rate of thaw.
As for the foreign nation situations, that is not something we can control, and there are ways to help the environment without gutting the economy, people just have to be willing to admit there is an issue to begin with so we can have the conversations about how to help the environment without fucking our already shaky economy.
I guess we can just leave it up to the Left to make all the public decisions and be the ones explaining data on this issue, if people on the Right do not want to even address the subject in a meaningful way besides going 'lalala, it's all a hoax'.
The numbers are mercilless. If you want to "help the environment" in this matter, willingness to ignore the "foreign nations situation" is the line between treating environmental problems as engineering problems, where the central goal is to get global numbers into a reasonable range, or as pseudo-religious problems, where the central goal is to attain personal or group "atonement" by doing "good deeds", to which what the pagans in other, distant, exotic societies do is obviously irrelevant.
"Flagellate yourself or the left will flagellate you harder" is a false binary that no sane person should accept.
As i said, even if its not a hoax, addressing the "foreign nation situation" in such global issues is pretty fucking central - especially when it is those nations which, if this is not a hoax, stand to be hit the hardest.
If they don't give a fuck, why should anyone else?
So because the CCP are callous retards killing thier own nation, we should just ignore issues?
Because Russia actually is taking it seriously, just not in the same alarmist fashion the Left in the west have. Russia has actually put in programs to try to find ways to reduce the thawing of the permafrost, partly by trying to reintroduce old species via things like Pleistocene Park and game management practices to try to rebuild the insulating layers over the permafrost. Even as a petro-state Russia is being realistic, instead of alarmist about this stuff, and not just burying its head in the sand.
India is an issue, but more because they just have shit environment regs overall and have for a while (Bhorpal ring a bell).
Pursuing sane environmental policies at home will help, even if the CCP and India remain willingly retarded on this for economic reasons, because others will follow our lead, and it can put pressure on the CCP and India in the long run.
Though I guess you could always just say fuck it, just toss more money at space programs to get us and the planet's genetics to back-up situations (O'Niell cylinder nature preserves and colonies are an option for preseving life if shit down here gets fucked) and not worry about the environment beyond getting samples/specimens for the space-borne nature preserves.
If enough nations will that the whole thing is going to shit either way, what choice do you have? Buckle down for the ride i guess.
Nice, they can do it, they own a huge chunk of the world's permafrost. USA has a bit of it in Alaska, but that's it. The rest is Greenland and Canada.
Are they doing it for that specific reason, or a dozen other, more self interested ones?
How much money are they throwing at it?
That is no reason to ignore its numbers still.
No, when it comes to these problems of purely global nature, it won't help. If you sacrifice billions of dollars and slap your industry with a bunch of silly regulations to cut methane emissions by X, while a bunch of third world countries happily increase theirs by 4X, that is the definition of wasting money, because in the end you will get both the costs of said regulations and the cost of having too much methane in atmosphere anyway.
Rationally you would be better off spending the money on becoming more resilient to the consequences of the inevitable.
Still less of a waste of money than above, if only because getting to the point where we can build O'Neill cylinders in any number at all would represent massive technological advances - nevermind making them so cheap that it is possible to build them for such luxurious purposes as having space nature preserves.
Better yet, this technology has plenty of uses no matter how much bullshit exactly have green ideological alarmists managed to sneak into the environmental models.
Or try to mitigate damage before it becomes catastrophic.
There are ways to do it that do not require gutting our economy or giving the rad greens everything they want.
Not sure the exact dollar amount, but I know they are putting serious money into trying to de-extinct mammoths, due to their ability to help manage permafrost, so I'd guess a lot of money, public and private, is going into these projects.
It's not about ignoring numbers, it's about trying to handle what we can at home, and trying to get others to pressure the CCP and India to clean up their act.
It would also help American conservatives reach back to one of their old standby's of environmental conservatism, like we had with TR and which resulted in our National Parks.
True, this has uses beyond environmental concerns.
However, you hit the nail on the head of why the Right needs to be active on this instead of just calling it a hoax and ignoring it; sussing out bad data from good can only happen when people on the Right are in a position to question and analysis the raw data themselves, on the ground, in the environmental movement itself.
This:
Clathrate_gun_hypothesis
Clathrate gun hypothesis The clathrate gun hypothesis states that as sea temperatures rise the sudden release of methane from methane clathrate compounds
www.chemeurope.com
Think all the sea floor methane releasing nearly at once, or at least a large part of it, and then that methane cloud getting mixed with the normal atmo and either posioning it, cooking it, or becoming the mother of all thermobarics the second a lightening strike or static spark happens in/near it.
It's been partially linked to the Permian Extinction/Great Dying, due to how the Earth heated up do to volcanic activity, and likely cause methane releases on the sea floor as things got hotter.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Actually, has any greenhouse gas been experimentally verified to actually be a greenhouse gas?
Has anyone ever put the gas in a long tube and verified that it blocks infrared light? At the temperature and gas pressure that it is claimed to act as a greenhouse gas?
Has anyone ever put the gas in a long tube and verified that it blocks infrared light? At the temperature and gas pressure that it is claimed to act as a greenhouse gas?
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
...So, another environmental doomsday prediction. That's the threat.
Do we need to go over, again, how literally every single one of these is wrong?
Give some actual chemistry and physics beyond 'people theorize that millions of years ago this thing happened over the course of tens of thousands of years' if you want to try to claim some high ground.
Your elitist attitude is frankly pretty obnoxious, especially about this issue where the left has been proven to just be rotating through an endless succession of lies for decades.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
so if we don't stop cows from farting (A natural process that has to do with thier natural diet) it'll cause massive climate disasters that will destroy the world. When you start to say nature itself is broken and must be corrected you are heading into religious territory. I mean you do you. Christanity is all about trying to get man to defy it's natural instinct, but call it what it is.
It Came From Beneath the Sea
Giant methane bubbles rising from the sea floor are capable of swamping a ship and sinking it, new research shows. The North Sea, which has a rich deposit of solid methane, is especially perilous.
Methane Bubbles Could Sink Ships - Slashdot
An anonymous reader writes "Joseph J Monaghan and David May, of Australia's Monash University, have proposed a novel theory for Bermuda-Triangle-like disappearance of ships at sea: They were swallowed in giant methane bubbles released by undersea vents. Monaghan & May point to sonar of a ship wr...
science.slashdot.org
Thousands of Mysterious Holes Discovered on Seafloor Off California Coast
It is unclear how the holes were formed, although marine trash could partly be responsible.
www.newsweek.com
Massive release of methane gas from the seafloor discovered for the first time in the Southern Hemisphere
Gas hydrate is an ice-like substance formed by water and methane at depths of several hundred meters at the bottom of our oceans at high pressure and low temperatures. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, roughly 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide, and it is estimated that methane frozen in...
It's already happening on the small scale, and we know there are larger deposits. At minimum it is a risk to maritime traffic, and it is something that can do something about if we keep an eye on it.
Worse comes to worse, create giant refrigeration spikes and stick them in strategic loactions.
Embrace geoengineering and off-planet settlement, instead of trying to claiming shit isn't happening/it's all a hoax. At worst, we speed up space colonization and terraforming tech.
Do beavers defy God's will when they build beaver dams and alter their world in ways that end up in the geological record?
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
It Came From Beneath the Sea
Giant methane bubbles rising from the sea floor are capable of swamping a ship and sinking it, new research shows. The North Sea, which has a rich deposit of solid methane, is especially perilous.www.wired.com
Methane Bubbles Could Sink Ships - Slashdot
An anonymous reader writes "Joseph J Monaghan and David May, of Australia's Monash University, have proposed a novel theory for Bermuda-Triangle-like disappearance of ships at sea: They were swallowed in giant methane bubbles released by undersea vents. Monaghan & May point to sonar of a ship wr...science.slashdot.org
Thousands of Mysterious Holes Discovered on Seafloor Off California Coast
It is unclear how the holes were formed, although marine trash could partly be responsible.
Massive release of methane gas from the seafloor discovered for the first time in the Southern Hemisphere
Gas hydrate is an ice-like substance formed by water and methane at depths of several hundred meters at the bottom of our oceans at high pressure and low temperatures. Methane is a potent greenhouse gas, roughly 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide, and it is estimated that methane frozen in...phys.org
It's already happening on the small scale, and we know there are larger deposits. At minimum it is a risk to maritime traffic, and it is something that can
Do beavers defy God's will when they build beaver damns and alter their world in ways that end up in the geological record?
beaver's aren't commanded to not build dams.
humans however are commanded to not rape and kill each other, not to get drunk on wine just because their instincts says it feels good. Not to stick their sex organs in everything they see just because they are in heat. Heck we are told specifically that our heart (our instincts) will lead us a stray without wisdom and guidance.
And that has what to do with the climate topic?
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
you're basically telling cows "Thou shall not fart."