United States Biden administration policies and actions - megathread

[Cherico]

I really don't understand why this has become a cause celebre among Americans; it seems like a very astroturfed issue, along with the Anti-China sentiment in general.

No anti-china sentiment is built upon 30 years of china acting in bad faith, from bashing down one of our spy planes over international waters, their maximalist claims in the south china seas, the constant breaking of their word in any trade deal we make with them, product dumping, stealing our technology when ever possible and a host of other issues America had a whole bunch of stuff to be pissed at with china over before covid came and futher poisoned the well.

A American Chinese trade war is envitable, there is too much bad blood between us to have any other out come.

 

[History Learner]

No anti-china sentiment is built upon 30 years of china acting in bad faith, from bashing down one of our spy planes over international waters, their maximalist claims in the south china seas, the constant breaking of their word in any trade deal we make with them, product dumping, stealing our technology when ever possible and a host of other issues America had a whole bunch of stuff to be pissed at with china over before covid came and futher poisoned the well.

A American Chinese trade war is envitable, there is too much bad blood between us to have any other out come.

As I said, it seems very artificial; you could only complain and act upon said issues in the last two-three years despite the past 30 years? You're slapping trade regulations on the Chinese but not doing anything about our Capital classes that were the entire reason for most of those economic issues? Case in point on the "stealing" of technology is that the Chinese-at least on the civilian side-got most of said tech as price of entry into their market on the part of private American businesses. For things like military tech, you might want to be looking at entities like Israel which have been the middleman in that racket since the 1990s.

Not saying the United States should not confront China long term, but it seems like it's being used as a scapegoat by our own elites for the most part and only now are they deploying this issue because it seems increasingly likely China will displace the Neoliberal American global order.

 

[Abhorsen]

I really don't understand why this has become a cause celebre among Americans; it seems like a very astroturfed issue, along with the Anti-China sentiment in general.

Mass rape isn't an astroturfed issue.

 

[History Learner]

Mass rape isn't an astroturfed issue.

Sure, but I'm talking about the broader issue. This isn't a sudden development with the Chinese; I'm old enough to remember them and the Russians using 9/11 to crack down on the Hui and Chechens hard, respectively, and no one said much from then until now. I don't doubt the sincerity of the people in this thread concerning the matter, but I do think the same need to stop and take a step back to consider the full picture; on a whole, it very much seems like our own political elites are using this as a scapegoat for their own failings and tapping into latent Cold War-era Anti-Communism to their benefit.

 

[Bear Ribs]

As I said, it seems very artificial; you could only complain and act upon said issues in the last two-three years despite the past 30 years? You're slapping trade regulations on the Chinese but not doing anything about our Capital classes that were the entire reason for most of those economic issues? Case in point on the "stealing" of technology is that the Chinese-at least on the civilian side-got most of said tech as price of entry into their market on the part of private American businesses. For things like military tech, you might want to be looking at entities like Israel which have been the middleman in that racket since the 1990s.

Not saying the United States should not confront China long term, but it seems like it's being used as a scapegoat by our own elites for the most part and only now are they deploying this issue because it seems increasingly likely China will displace the Neoliberal American global order.

Yes, it would only have been possible in the last 3-4 years. Bill Clinton was extremely friendly to China (actually the one who booted their economy into high gear via promoting them to the WTO). George W. Bush pushed somewhat against China by boosting India, but had his hands full after 9/11 and couldn't deal with China and the Taliban at the same time. Obama was, again, friendly to China and boosted their economy greatly via his Pivot To East Asia policy. Obama also notably snubbed the Dalai Lama when human rights abuses in Tibet came out. Trump was the first president in a long time that both didn't have another major war to deal with, and wasn't in China's pocket.

 

[History Learner]

Yes, it would only have been possible in the last 3-4 years. Bill Clinton was extremely friendly to China (actually the one who booted their economy into high gear via promoting them to the WTO). George W. Bush pushed somewhat against China by boosting India, but had his hands full after 9/11 and couldn't deal with China and the Taliban at the same time. Obama was, again, friendly to China and boosted their economy greatly via his Pivot To East Asia policy. Obama also notably snubbed the Dalai Lama when human rights abuses in Tibet came out. Trump was the first president in a long time that both didn't have another major war to deal with, and wasn't in China's pocket.

That's kinda my point; the Elites have shifted their stance on China and now the common man is able to do so. That should, in of itself, raise questions particularly for those on here who hate Neocons but then have jumped on the Anti-China bandwagon; again, not saying China is some great place, but with Human Rights abuses as the basis of the campaign, extreme caution should be used given the 2003 Iraq War and the whole Assad ordeal.

Also, Dubya nor Trump have any excuses on China either, for the record; this isn't some Left/Right issue despite the very clear astroturfing on that.

 

[History Learner]

On another note, all of the tepid hopes I had for the Biden Administration have been shot in the course of a week lol; the $15 minimum wage, the student loan debt relief and the $2,000 checks lol.

 

[Cherico]

On another note, all of the tepid hopes for the Biden Administration have been shot in the course of a week lol; the $15 minimum wage, the student loan debt relief and the $2,000 checks lol.

looking for laughing emogi found it

yeah not feeling a lot of sympathy.

 

[History Learner]

looking for laughing emogi found it

yeah not feeling a lot of sympathy.

Disappointed but not surprised feels apt but on the bright side I have no reason to regret my write in vote for Huey Long at all yet.

 

[Abhorsen]

Sure, but I'm talking about the broader issue. This isn't a sudden development with the Chinese; I'm old enough to remember them and the Russians using 9/11 to crack down on the Hui and Chechens hard, respectively, and no one said much from then until now. I don't doubt the sincerity of the people in this thread concerning the matter, but I do think the same need to stop and take a step back to consider the full picture; on a whole, it very much seems like our own political elites are using this as a scapegoat for their own failings and tapping into latent Cold War-era Anti-Communism to their benefit.

If we could as a nation tap into anticommunism, that would actually be a step forward.

But the reason this is coming out now is that we are, as a nation, finally learning about it. The elites actually don't want complaints about China: it's cheap and makes them a lot of money. That outrage is happening is a good thing.

As for why the outrage now, mass, organized rape is the sorta thing that gets everyone mad, and its much more provable now than it was in the past, with information flowing much more freely.

On another note, all of the tepid hopes I had for the Biden Administration have been shot in the course of a week lol; the $15 minimum wage, the student loan debt relief and the $2,000 checks lol.

And many of my fears were laid to rest.

 

[Rocinante]

Let's also not forget that everyone is afraid of how fast China has been and is growing, and that they're our #1 economic competition and #1 military rival.

We like being the top dogs. China being the top dog or having more influence, when they are demonstratably an evil dictatorship going through with a genocide right now, is not good for anyone who calls themselves a free country.

 

[Zachowon]

Their ratings are indeed dropping, which is why I predict they will continue to jump in and use the same format as the alternative media. They're already starting to follow that model to a degree. You see a lot more youtube streams and clips these days.

That and once they have a new person to freak everyone out over, ratings will go back up.

And I anticipate big tech will start to crack down on the independent journalists out there too. Didn't Tim Pool just catch a ban on one of them last week?


Less than two months ago, all these companies got together and banned the sitting president of the United States, along with a mass ban of thousands of other people, along with a coordinated takedown of alternative platforms.

The radical left controls the dissemination of information. These right wing youtubers are on there because youtube is allowing them to be. For now.

FB is in legal trouble, and so will the rest of the Leftist SM before the end of the year.

That's kinda my point; the Elites have shifted their stance on China and now the common man is able to do so. That should, in of itself, raise questions particularly for those on here who hate Neocons but then have jumped on the Anti-China bandwagon; again, not saying China is some great place, but with Human Rights abuses as the basis of the campaign, extreme caution should be used given the 2003 Iraq War and the whole Assad ordeal.

Also, Dubya nor Trump have any excuses on China either, for the record; this isn't some Left/Right issue despite the very clear astroturfing on that.

China is a major miliitary threat and threatens our allied countries in East Asia, Mainly Korea, Taiwan and Japan. Hate for China is not artificial, as they have killed plenty of Americans in history past, and would gladly do so to further their economic goals. Remember, they are the second most powerful country on earth, and have what equates to a dictator, they arnt going to play ncie and never will. CHina has money and ways to make the rich richer. The US shoud not support them, especially since they are a threat to our space network and militarily.
THough I doubt you would seem to care that we have been preparing for a force on forcewar for them for roughly6 years at this point

 

[History Learner]

If we could as a nation tap into anticommunism, that would actually be a step forward.

But the reason this is coming out now is that we are, as a nation, finally learning about it. The elites actually don't want complaints about China: it's cheap and makes them a lot of money. That outrage is happening is a good thing.

As for why the outrage now, mass, organized rape is the sorta thing that gets everyone mad, and its much more provable now than it was in the past, with information flowing much more freely.

Yeah, not really buying it because the same issues were present in the 2000s and the information flowed a lot more freely before Xi Jinping took over; people forget how open China was under guys like Hu Jintao. The simple fact of the matter is the Elites don't care about China at best now or are actively opposed to it because of the reasons others have cited given the growing power of China.

Case in point: China Labor Costs back in 2016 reached parity with American rates. That they are making a lot of money off China just simply doesn't cut it as an excuse.

And many of my fears were laid to rest.

Such as?

China is a major miliitary threat and threatens our allied countries in East Asia, Mainly Korea, Taiwan and Japan. Hate for China is not artificial, as they have killed plenty of Americans in history past, and would gladly do so to further their economic goals. Remember, they are the second most powerful country on earth, and have what equates to a dictator, they arnt going to play ncie and never will. CHina has money and ways to make the rich richer. The US shoud not support them, especially since they are a threat to our space network and militarily.
THough I doubt you would seem to care that we have been preparing for a force on forcewar for them for roughly6 years at this point

Shades of Neocons in 2003.

 

[Abhorsen]

Yeah, not really buying it because the same issues were present in the 2000s and the information flowed a lot more freely before Xi Jinping took over; people forget how open China was under guys like Hu Jintao. The simple fact of the matter is the Elites don't care about China at best now or are actively opposed to it because of the reasons others have cited given the growing power of China.

Case in point: China Labor Costs back in 2016 reached parity with American rates. That they are making a lot of money off China just simply doesn't cut it as an excuse.

They're not making money off of cheap labor. They're making money off of the Chinese market. Look at the NBA squashing criticism of China, Disney thanking the SS 2.0 in the credits of Mulan, or many other movies altering plots (notably Disney again) to get money from China or access to the market.

Such as?

The bolded parts below:

On another note, all of the tepid hopes I had for the Biden Administration have been shot in the course of a week lol; the $15 minimum wage, the student loan debt relief and the $2,000 checks lol.

 

[History Learner]

They're not making money off of cheap labor. They're making money off of the Chinese market. Look at the NBA squashing criticism of China, Disney thanking the SS 2.0 in the credits of Mulan, or many other movies altering plots (notably Disney again) to get money from China or access to the market.

First, aren't you a Libertarian?

I don't think anybody can credibly claim Adam Silver or Bob Chapek as major, influential political players in the U.S. to be honest, to say the least. For the vast majority of our political elites, regular business has been their source of income from China; that's declined, largely due to China growing into its own and associated political changes. As others have noted now, China poses a credible challenge to the Liberal American world order which, combined with the closure of money making for most, is the main reason the Anti-China sentiment has become politically acceptable. For those old enough to remember, it's a very, very clear throwback to the way Islam was talked about back in the 2000s.

The bolded parts below:

Yeah, I'm not really understanding your concern on said issues?

 

[Buba]

Disney thanking the SS 2.0 in the credits of Mulan, or many other movies altering plots (notably Disney again) to get money from China

Sorry for derailing - indeed IMO Star Wars Ep.VIII simply screams "Chinese market" in your face ...

 

[LordsFire]

First, aren't you a Libertarian?

I don't think anybody can credibly claim Adam Silver or Bob Chapek as major, influential political players in the U.S. to be honest, to say the least. For the vast majority of our political elites, regular business has been their source of income from China; that's declined, largely due to China growing into its own and associated political changes. As others have noted now, China poses a credible challenge to the Liberal American world order which, combined with the closure of money making for most, is the main reason the Anti-China sentiment has become politically acceptable. For those old enough to remember, it's a very, very clear throwback to the way Islam was talked about back in the 2000s.



Yeah, I'm not really understanding your concern on said issues?

China isn't a meaningful threat to the American world order. It has no military power projection past its borders, and is economically dependent upon US guarantees of free trade. It is entirely possible (though not necessarily likely) that China will pick a fight with a bordering nation, and an alliance of nations that are fed up with China's shit will fight back and defeat it without even needing US support. If India, Vietnam, Japan, the Philipines and the key Oceania nations all allied together, China would be in deep shit. US support would just guarantee a Chinese loss.

What poses a threat to the American world order, is our own political and moral corruption, and China is very willing to take advantage of that for our own gain.

Edit: It is possible for China to grow into a threat in the future, but currently it's a regional superpower, not a world superpower.

 

[History Learner]

China isn't a meaningful threat to the American world order. It has no military power projection past its borders, and is economically dependent upon US guarantees of free trade. It is entirely possible (though not necessarily likely) that China will pick a fight with a bordering nation, and an alliance of nations that are fed up with China's shit will fight back and defeat it without even needing US support. If India, Vietnam, Japan, the Philipines and the key Oceania nations all allied together, China would be in deep shit. US support would just guarantee a Chinese loss.

What poses a threat to the American world order, is our own political and moral corruption, and China is very willing to take advantage of that for our own gain.

Taking this argument at face value as a whole, we've circled back to what I was originally saying: why the sudden Anti-China sentiment?

 

[Largo]

Yeah, I'm not really understanding your concern on said issues?

All of them are generally bad policies. The check is the least bad, though that's more "It's not awful under the circumstances, but the fact that we aren't talking of the far superior methods of using that money is because the middle class wants to extract its pound of flesh and politicians gonna politician."

 

[Bear Ribs]

Taking this argument at face value as a whole, we've circled back to what I was originally saying: why the sudden Anti-China sentiment?

Well there's your problem, you're seeing a pattern that doesn't exist outside your own imagination. Let's take a look:

Anti-China sentiment is hardly sudden, it's been higher than not since 2011. There was a dip around 2016, when big media went up against Trump who was sanctioning them. The real rise was right at the tail end of 2019, almost like some sort of virulent plague came out of China that was handled poorly....