But, it obviously doesn't take into account anyone who got a degree and couldn't get a job despite that. Now, you also said unemployment is lower amongst college graduates which I think answers that, but TBF that bit you just claimed, without the evidence you provided for the issue of better pay.
It also shows it excludes anyone who can't get a job; how much lower would the "average" be if the data included all those who made $0?
Here's evidence of that:
www.bls.gov
My statement was specifically that a) it's not hard to get a job with a degree, and b) those with jobs and degrees make six figures eventually. Adding people who don't work would obviously distort the statistic, as it tells the story of the average job only earning X amount a year, when in reality, the average job holder will earn about $100k, and there are 2% of people with degrees (from the link above) and without jobs as well.
Okay, I'll concede that your data is compelling. Still, the average is the average; so can we at least agree that those who can't make enough money to pay off their student loan debts, however many of them there are, do still need help?Here's evidence of that:
Unemployment rate 2.0 percent for college grads, 3.8 percent for high school grads in January 2020 : The Economics Daily: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
Among people age 25 and older with a bachelor's degree or higher, the unemployment rate was 2.0 percent in January 2020, down from 2.4 percent a year earlier. The national unemployment rate was 3.6 percent in January 2020, down from 4.0 percent in January 2019. (The national unemployment rate is...
Basically, unemployment for college grads is always lower than unemployment for other situations, and never goes above 5% either, even in the great recession. In January 2020, which is when the link cuts off.
My statement was specifically that a) it's not hard to get a job with a degree, and b) those with jobs. Adding people who don't work would obviously distort the statistic, as it tells the story of the average job only earning X amount a year, when in reality, the average job holder will earn about $100k, and there are 2% of people with degrees (from the link above) and without jobs as well.
But lets say we include unemployment statistics to this. Since all the salaries eventually hit about $110k, that times .98 is still $107.8k/year. So I'd still be correct. On top of that, older workers are even less likely to be unemployed, so the 2% was likely a high figure.
Also, I'm not sure if this uses the average or the median, but for people who earn above ~$300k (IIRC), the ACS basically cuts off the reported earnings there, so it isn't like one person's earning a billion, distorting the statistics.
I say if the reason for not paying student loan debt is not because of a useless degree, but other factors. It should be go to a org that goes through the apparel work and the like
So loan forgiveness but only if you work at a clothing store?
They put their trust in a 78 year old career politician. What did they expect?
No. Because many of the people who would get help are very recent college grads, and the ones who in the future will make enough money can't be easily separated from those who won't. Basically recent college grads will frequently end up still making good amounts of money in the future, and are just currently in debt, not stuck there forever.
And honestly all of that still doesn't go into why it is worth spending tax payer money and more public debt for a certain type of self accrued debt and not others.
Right; Ancap. I keep forgetting; you're utterly incapable of empathizing with anyone who fails to be financially successful. Why do I even bother?
My understanding is that this is the administration's reaction to the court blocking their attempt to put a moratorium on deportations for 100 days.
No. For people that we are sure are in trouble, I believe in making sure they have a well designed negative income tax or a UBI. But for people who are likely to be well off in the future? No, I don't believe in giving them money. College Loan Forgiveness is the absolute worst way to target people who need help. It's homeless shelters that are exclusive to people with zipcode of 90210.
Appeal
So you do agree, you just want to be pedantic about it. Fine; whatever. As long as we can agree that some people do need, and deserve, help.
There's also an argument to be made that we need to, as a society, reject the notion that everyone has to go to collage.
It's not pedantic. The method of giving help is very important, and giving it through college loans is one of the worst possible way, and unfortunately popular.
What are your feelings on abolishing interest on student loans then? Personally, I don't think they should have had them in the first place, because it's not like the profit they make off of it is likely to end in the pockets of the taxpayer who paid for the loan.
You need to estimate interest to match inflation at a minimum on any loan, otherwise the borrower just makes money. That's why the the 80's inflation was so good for people with a mortgage on their house: suddenly the principal of the loan was inflated away (not that many of them recognize this). On top of this, there needs to be interest to cover people defaulting on the loans, or using any of a number of loan forgiveness programs. A;; of this is just what is needed to break even.
