Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

[Marduk]

Pre 1900's style isolationism basically we just tell and force anyone from the old world to fuck off from North and South America. Doesn't sound so bad to me tbh.

It doesn't sound bad for new world country in 19th century.
Unfortunately we can't shove them into a time machine to send them there, and USA is a very different country with a very different position in the world now.
Also even in that obsolete view, we both know that China is the elephant in the room and is absolutely not going to fuck off from Americas willingly (look up how they are getting their influence into SA), and these "geniuses" are absolutely not focusing on that either, just on Russia being bled in Ukraine as if that was a bad thing.

Horseshoe theory of politics keeps rearing it's ugly heads.

Ukraine is paying the price for Biden's shit-tastic withdrawal from A-stan because of how it burned so many on foreign policy, while the stolen election means some simply will not accept that someone can be ok on domestic issues, but have massive blindspots on foreign affairs.

There is also huge irony in that logic. The biggest problem with Afghanistan was that despite massive resources pumped into it, the whole project turned out to be a house of cards in the end.

Meanwhile Ukraine is doing some quite impressive things for a fraction of the same resources... and the malcontents are complaining about it more than they did about Afghanistan, where's the fucking logic?

 

[Carrot of Truth]

It doesn't sound bad for new world country in 19th century.
Unfortunately we can't shove them into a time machine to send them there, and USA is a very different country with a very different position in the world now.
Also even in that obsolete view, we both know that China is the elephant in the room and is absolutely not going to fuck off from Americas willingly (look up how they are getting their influence into SA), and these "geniuses" are absolutely not focusing on that either, just on Russia being bled in Ukraine as if that was a bad thing.

I mean what are they actually going to acheve with influence over Europe and Africa and we prevent them from any influence in our sphere? Seems like they would find themselves in a dick measuring contest with someone else probably India.

 

[Marduk]

I mean what are they actually going to acheve with influence over Europe and Africa and we prevent them from any influence in our sphere? Seems like they would find themselves in a dick measuring contest with someone else probably India.

USA, Europe and East Asia are world's 3 high tech hubs.
Only a total idiot would forget the value of having influence there just because of geopolitical theories from fucking 19th century when this stuff didn't exist.
And that's without even getting into exotic resources and global energy market.
Long story short, let 19th century have its foreign policy, it was not designed for 21st century and so it is ridiculous to insist it be practiced because reasons. Reasons usually being some sort of massive delusions about how economies and geopolitics work that ideological isolationists love.

India? Pfffff, yeah, right, you might want to not point at random countries with too many internal problems for that.

 

[Carrot of Truth]

USA, Europe and East Asia are world's 3 high tech hubs.
Only a total idiot would forget the value of having influence there just because of geopolitical theories from fucking 19th century when this stuff didn't exist.
And that's without even getting into exotic resources and global energy market.
Long story short, let 19th century have its foreign policy, it was not designed for 21st century and so it is ridiculous to insist it be practiced because reasons. Reasons usually being some sort of massive delusions about how economies and geopolitics work that ideological isolationists love.

India? Pfffff, yeah, right, you might want to not point at random countries with too many internal problems for that.

I mean for most of human history India and the middle east have been the more advanced area's. Like if we are going to just keep screwing around then we should tangibly benefit from this somehow and forcefully take land from them and colonize it.

 

[Aaron Fox]

Horseshoe theory of politics keeps rearing it's ugly heads.

Ukraine is paying the price for Biden's shit-tastic withdrawal from A-stan because of how it burned so many on foreign policy, while the stolen election means some simply will not accept that someone can be ok on domestic issues, but have massive blindspots on foreign affairs.

This was done by Trump, who stabbed our allies in Afghanistan in the back, mind you. Biden was the poor sap with the bag, so to speak.

There is also huge irony in that logic. The biggest problem with Afghanistan was that despite massive resources pumped into it, the whole project turned out to be a house of cards in the end.

Meanwhile Ukraine is doing some quite impressive things for a fraction of the same resources... and the malcontents are complaining about it more than they did about Afghanistan, where's the fucking logic?

It should be noted that Trump did everything in his power to ensure that would happen, up to and including releasing a few hundred officers of the Taliban... against pretty much all advice and common sense. Oh, he didn't talk to the government we set up in Afghanistan and kept them out of the loop until Biden became president.

I mean for most of human history India and the middle east have been the more advanced area's

Only because they didn't have Rome, for Rome is both a boon and a bane to Europe in general.

 

[Bacle]

This was done by Trump, who stabbed our allies in Afghanistan in the back, mind you. Biden was the poor sap with the bag, so to speak.

It was not Trump who decided to evac out of Kabul international instead of Bagram, and Trump himself said he would have used Bagram instead of closing it first.

Would have been a whole different ballgame if the evac had happened out of Bagram instead of Kabul.

 

[Marduk]

This was done by Trump, who stabbed our allies in Afghanistan in the back, mind you. Biden was the poor sap with the bag, so to speak.

It should be noted that Trump did everything in his power to ensure that would happen, up to and including releasing a few hundred officers of the Taliban... against pretty much all advice and common sense. Oh, he didn't talk to the government we set up in Afghanistan and kept them out of the loop until Biden became president.

Biden had half a fucking year to adjust or cancel the plan, it's not 40k, half a year is a lot of time to do things. The real problem is that over nearly 2 decades none of the several administrations has managed to get Afghan government to fix their crippling corruption problems to non-crippling level, and inspiring grassroots opposition to the Taliban also didn't appear to have gotten enough of a result to paper over the problem of government not being able to get shit done.

Come on, ~80k guerillas without heavy weapons don't take a mountainous country larger than Ukraine with famously violent population of 38 million in few months if they care even a bit about it not happening.

I mean for most of human history India and the middle east have been the more advanced area's. Like if we are going to just keep screwing around then we should tangibly benefit from this somehow and forcefully take land from them and colonize it.

Yeah, industrial revolution really left a huge mark on the world of geopolitics. I mean you don't even need to care much about how winds and currents go around oceans for your naval strategy, it's insane!

Obviously USA isn't in it for the land, got plenty of it close, only resources and trade deals with rich partners, so why bother taking and holding the land.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Wasn’t it that Biden changed the timetable of the pullout, and that really pissed off the Tribal Chiefs?

 

[Blasterbot]

Wasn’t it that Biden changed the timetable of the pullout, and that really pissed off the Tribal Chiefs?

yup. the original plan relied on those guys not supporting the taliban. we made promises to ensure that. we broke those promises and ruined our puppet regime's legitimacy because of it. following the Original plan? they may not have supported the regime we installed but they likely would have told the taliban to leave them out of it. we also would have wound things down differently rather than abandoning 80 billion dollars worth of equipment in the middle of the night without a heads up to the locals for a hand off. meaning locals who don't support our regime got first picks on looting that stuff. a fucking 10 year old would have had a better withdrawal plan than Biden. If the goal was to make us look foolish and weak to the international community though he definitely succeeded. Whoever was in charge of that made sure it was a shit show.

 

[Marduk]

Wasn’t it that Biden changed the timetable of the pullout, and that really pissed off the Tribal Chiefs?

yup. the original plan relied on those guys not supporting the taliban. we made promises to ensure that. we broke those promises and ruined our puppet regime's legitimacy because of it. following the Original plan? they may not have supported the regime we installed but they likely would have told the taliban to leave them out of it. we also would have wound things down differently rather than abandoning 80 billion dollars worth of equipment in the middle of the night without a heads up to the locals for a hand off. meaning locals who don't support our regime got first picks on looting that stuff. a fucking 10 year old would have had a better withdrawal plan than Biden. If the goal was to make us look foolish and weak to the international community though he definitely succeeded. Whoever was in charge of that made sure it was a shit show.

The problem is that since years the whole idea with Afghanistan relied on the central government being the go-to party for US to deal with, as if it was a normal well functioning country, so handing over military gear meant for it to tribal chiefs would be a sort of quick and optically illegitimate improvised solution that is way too demanding to expect from most establishment politicians.

 

[paulobrito]

After the first year, is evident to anyone with two working neurons that that war is a disaster in the making. Just takes about 20 years for the powers that be to reach the same conclusion - that tells you a lot about the interests involved/their intelligence.

 

[Husky_Khan]

My God.

Liberty Has Been Toppled in Russian Crimea...



They couldn't even handle a little bit of it.

Rest In Peace. 🫡

 

[lloyd007]

If it continue.I fear,that Ukraine become Germany puppet,made deal with german allies in Moscov,and attack us.
UPA was german toys after all,and germans and Moscov are allies.

I really don't think you have much to worry about for Molotov Ribbentrop 2 especially from the Ukrainian side considering how bad the blood is between Ukrainians and Russians now.

 

[History Learner]

52% of Slovaks are supportive of Russia, and the party likely to take power is likewise.

Now that Fico has been elected, I'd like to take this opportunity to say I told you so lol.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Now that Fico has been elected, I'd like to take this opportunity to say I told you so lol.

Oh no, who let you in?

 

[History Learner]

Oh no, who let you in?

Your fear is palpable.

 

[Bacle]

Oh no, who let you in?

Guess the vatnik/jihadi supporter had to come back around for his monthly trolling.

 

[History Learner]

Notice the anguish they're both under because they can't stand the fact I was 100% correct about Fico and Slovakia lol.

 

[Zachowon]

Guess the vatnik/jihadi supporter had to come back around for his monthly trolling.

Probably saw the stuff in Isreal and jumped on the chance to support Hamas

 

[History Learner]

Rent Free, baby.