sillygoose
Well-known member
I didn't claim they imported >90% from Russia and Belarus, I said they imported it period and of that of that 1 million tons came from Russia.
Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)
- Thread starter ParadiseLost
- Start date
If you think western oligarch rule sucks, you don't want to see eastern oligarch rule up close.
sillygoose
Well-known member
Why is China backing Russia so hard then? They are explicitly sending messages that they are not going along with the US up to the point of being sanctioned.
Not really all that different. You're underselling how bad the American ones are. Are the eastern ones trying to incite half their population against the other?
Dude, they wrote the book on that which the former are now copying ineptly. Half? That's rookie numbers, think moving around dozens of ethnic groups and getting them to supervise each other and have frozen conflicts that will blow up into a Balkans scenario the moment oligarch's boot is lifted.
And they were doing this shit long before America's ruling class even knew terms like "affirmative action".
So, I have a quick question here.
Ukraine or pro Ukrainian source posts something that suggests Russia is getting owned, you response is "well anyone could just use a stencil on that/you can be the reflections it's been photoshopped/cleans hands means the body was staged which I know for reasons".
Russia posts about a captured ATGM, or has like two guys out in a field with one, obviously they must have captured loads of them, because of course it's totally impossible to have a handful of guys stand around in a field for a minute in order to lie about having captured tons and tons of enemy weapons, a handful of soldiers and one missile is a huge investment that couldn't be faked. You continue to believe this despite these alleged training videos showing up for weeks, but footage of captured weapons actually being used hasn't surfaced.
Can you explain this odd disparity of trust and differing standards here?
Yes,but american or european oligarchs do not want kill you becouse of your nationality.
When Putin started war he said that ukrainians do not exist and he must denazify Ukraine.
In translation from Mordor speech to our - it means,that every ukrainian who do not agree to be russian would end in mass grave or gulag.
In that case ,all ukrainians must fight - becouse they fight not for their oligarchs,but their own lives.
sillygoose
Well-known member
You live in Poland right? Not America? The US elite have always been extremely shitty, we just had a period of relative wealth due to Europe self immolating (with help from the US) and mass movements by the public for better living standards that has largely been eroding. Now we've gotten to the point where the country is hollowed out and is experiencing a situation like Russia with major drug overdose deaths, deaths from poor nutrition and life style, house shortage, rampant inflation, crippling culture war, collapse of governance, etc.
What you're talking is oligarchs in the east responding to massive ethnic conflict and trying to control it rather than in the US where it is actively cultivated by our ruling class. You go back to the 1600s they created racism to justify slavery, genocide of the native Americans, and impoverishment of the working class/poor. Affirmative action is simply the latest in their gambits to divide and conquer.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
You said your list was from Wikipedia. Are you now saying you lied earlier and used a source other than Wikipedia?
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Are we really at the point where we can't agree that genocidal bootheels are worse than non-genocidal bootheels?
Chiron
Well-known member
Russia you can make deals with and get a fair shake and Putin being the moderate he is, doesn't try interfere in internal governance so long as said government doesn't threaten Russian Security Interests. US they will try to infiltrate your government and wreck it from within and break every damn agreement.
For China, its a no brainer.
Chiron
Well-known member
US actively targeted civilians in the GWOT and it sanctions and direct military actions have killed millions. Sorry but neither side we have as choices are good, in fact they are all shit.
US doesn't get to claim the high ground anymore than Russia does.
Floridaman
Well-known member
you do realize we are funding and participating in Saudi Arabia’s genocide in Yemen, so neither side here is non genocidal.
Genocide Emergency: Saudi Arabia and the war in Yemen
Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto leader of the kingdom [Cliff Owen/AP] Saudi Arabia's military intervention in Yemen has created what the U.N. calls "the worst humanitarian crisis in the world." South and North Yemen united in 1990 after centuries of separation. The current war in Yemen began...
www.genocidewatch.com
Not many countries are so wealthy as to they can complain about poor nutrition because their lazy ass population will stuff themselves with ridiculous amounts of high energy food while not exerting much physical effort, that you can't blame on the elites, or at least the governing elites, the cultural ones perhaps a bit.
House shortage? How many rich countries don't have some degree of that? USA is hardly the worst with that even.
Inflation? That's for everyone with stupid covid policies.
Culture war? You think Europe doesn't have that?
Not responding, that's their propaganda line. Creating it in new places where there is a chance the locals may get ideas like being independent. See - all Stalin era and Empire era forced mass population movements in Russia\Soviet Union. That's why there is a Russian majority in Crimea for example. Or why Transnistria exists.
Wargaming announces decision to leave Russia and Belarus | Press release | News | Wargaming
Over the past weeks, Wargaming has been conducting a strategic review of business operations worldwide. The company has decided it will not own or operate any businesses in Russia and Belarus and will leave both countries.
wargaming.com
Wargaming is leaving Russia and Belarus entirely, shutting down it's office/operations in Minsk, and seems like they shifted all the stuff in those countries over to a completely separate studio to take them over while keeping the games operational but will not be any part of Wargaming's company.
Because Russia is a 3rd rate power with an economy to match, China can pull them into thier sphere of influence as a junior partner for next to nothing, while backing the west gets nothing. The US and it's allies are already gearing up for a confrontation with China, China propping up Russia so it can be a distraction in Europe is a reasonable move to try and divert western forces.
you do realize we are funding and participating in Saudi Arabia’s genocide in Yemen, so neither side here is non genocidal.
Genocide Emergency: Saudi Arabia and the war in Yemen
Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto leader of the kingdom [Cliff Owen/AP] Saudi Arabia's military intervention in Yemen has created what the U.N. calls "the worst humanitarian crisis in the world." South and North Yemen united in 1990 after centuries of separation. The current war in Yemen began...
The war in Yeman isn't genocidal. It's terrible and about as full of war crimes as every middle east war is, but genocide is a stretch. By the definition used there, the british blockade of Germany during WW1 was genocide.
Sandbox problems...you do realize we are funding and participating in Saudi Arabia’s genocide in Yemen, so neither side here is non genocidal.
Genocide Emergency: Saudi Arabia and the war in Yemen
Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto leader of the kingdom [Cliff Owen/AP] Saudi Arabia's military intervention in Yemen has created what the U.N. calls "the worst humanitarian crisis in the world." South and North Yemen united in 1990 after centuries of separation. The current war in Yemen began...
Obviously some "anti imperialist" west hating writer had to forget to write about... the other side of that war.
Yemen’s Houthis accused of committing ‘genocide’ with blockade on key district
Cutting off humanitarian aid and halting movement of its 37,000 people, rebels aim to take power in the energy-rich city of Marib and complete their control of the country's north
www.timesofisrael.com
Floridaman
Well-known member
There is no good side in any conflict, and my answer is we should support neither side, the US can and should be self sufficient. And as others pointed out Ukraine shelled the Donbas for years ignoring the Minsk agreement, so no side in either conflict has clean hands.Sandbox problems...
Obviously some "anti imperialist" west hating writer had to forget to write about... the other side of that war.
There are no "good guys" in that war, so US is supporting "our bastards", while this "muh Yemen war" line of thinking about US alliances is "our bastards are bastards, so we should let the enemy bastards win instead", and is mostly repeated by rather left leaning and pro-Iran factions for obvious reasons.Yemen’s Houthis accused of committing ‘genocide’ with blockade on key district
Cutting off humanitarian aid and halting movement of its 37,000 people, rebels aim to take power in the energy-rich city of Marib and complete their control of the country's north
Biden’s broken promise on Yemen | Brookings
The Biden administration has failed not only to end the war in Yemen, but also to end U.S. support for Saudi Arabia's offensive operations as promised, Annelle R. Sheline and Bruce Riedel argue.
www.brookings.edu
And Donbas shelled Ukraine for years, so...
Lets not forget Donbas was not internationally recognized (and still isn't except by Russia and its cronies) so in theory it should not exist and have warlords larping as an army anyway.
USA is supporting Ukraine to support its own alliances, just like with Saudi Arabia.
Isolationism is silly and American voters would not want to see or even think of the costs of practicing it, they would rather practice moralistic hand-wringing about "clean hands" while competing powers laugh all the way to victory parade at stupid sentimental westerners.
Who's going to stop Iran's offensive operations in Yemen or elsewhere?Biden’s broken promise on Yemen | Brookings
The Biden administration has failed not only to end the war in Yemen, but also to end U.S. support for Saudi Arabia's offensive operations as promised, Annelle R. Sheline and Bruce Riedel argue.
sillygoose
Well-known member
PPP adjusted (which is the more accurate measure) they are a >$4 trillion dollar economy, which is barely behind Germany:
List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Some rankings of international militaries still have Russia ahead of China and a close second to the US:
2023 Military Strength Ranking
Ranking the nations of the world based on current available firepower.
www.globalfirepower.com
They have just focused their military on land to control their borders and deal with nearby threats in Europe. The US is more focused on the navy and air force than their ground forces, while Russia is more focused on their army and supporting air force:
Why Russian Military Expenditure Is Much Higher Than Commonly Understood (As Is China’s) - War on the Rocks
Gresham’s Law states that bad money drives out good money, but anyone who has spent time around Washington, D.C., knows that this law can safely be
warontherocks.com
People don't think about PPP adjusted budgets as the nominal spending in dollars doesn't really tell you what can be actually be bought for that budget. So fighting Russia where they would have to be fought, their backyard, actually leaves the US military at a severe disadvantage. Not only that, but Euro NATO has demonstrated they are effectively useless in such a war as would be required to beat Russia, as the core of it, Germany, is completely impotent, while France and Britain are only set up to fight insurgents abroad, so their spending is on things useless to fighting the Russians.
Far from being a junior partner Russia is quite formidable an ally on its own especially because if push came to shove China couldn't function without Russian resources in the event of war with the US.
sillygoose
Well-known member
People only being able to afford calorie rich, nutrient poor soylent green knock offs is not the mark of a wealthy society. People become lazy due to only being stuffed with 'food' that breaks their metabolism. That's not counting all the drugs people consume to be able to psychologically function in a messed up society. The elites created this food situation, polluted the hell out of the country and water supply, destroyed education, closed down society for a year to force people to stay inside and consume, and propagandize the public into demoralization. This is all a relatively new development since the 1960s.
There are more houses than families/people, but the system has effectively turned them over to investment firms to rent out to the point that people cannot afford what is even available to rent. That's a broken system.
Inflation in the US couple with the debt crisis and unsustainable printing of money has financially crippled the state as we will find out the hard way probably later this year.
Europe doesn't have the culture war like the US has. I've lived there and saw nothing like what I see here.
WW2 created all sorts of mass population transfers that the US largely endorsed. The US forces people to do it themselves to find work. See the hollowing out of the middle of the country.
Plus now we get to see how bad things are going to get in the west now that we're reenacting the 1970s again:
U.S. oil prices settle back above $100 as Europe weighs additional Russia sanctions
Oil futures settle higher on Monday, with U.S. prices back above the $100 mark after posting the biggest weekly drop in two years.
www.marketwatch.com