Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

... Maybe watch the video, and believe your own eyes. It doesn't take the NYT to do this research, just matching up two pictures from different angles.

Also, I don't know where you're getting the fresh blood from either.

Finally, seriously, please take a serious critical look at what you read. You are just as dumb as the Ghost of Ukraine people, but from the other side. You'd believe anything Papa Putin said at this point, and that's depressing. You don't put any thought into your opinions, any more than the average NYT reader.

Seriously, I challenge you, again, to honestly argue from the Ukrainian side about a victory or an atrocity or really anything. Do research in hopes of proving your prior opinions wrong. That's how people learn. I did it already with Russia. Now you.
1.There was no mention of mass shootings in the area of Bucha throughout the whole time while it was under Russian control.Remember, phones and internet still work in Ukraine, we are getting tons of video from all over, this would have been huge news long ago.
2. Neither did the mayor mention such an event after the Russians pulled out.
3. Not giving the NYT any clicks or looking at any of their stuff, not even for comedic value.
4. I posted an analysis of the video already, take a look at that.
5. I doubt that the Russians would have left the corpses to sit there for weeks, or shot dissidents right there on the street.That stuff is usually done at night, and far away from prying eyes.Even the dumbest African warlords drag their political enemies to a secluded spot, kill them, and dump them into mass graves.
 
My point is that people do not easily forget territory being forcibly taken from their land and these types of memories last longer than you in the USA think they last.
I mean, look at Marduk, he is triggered by stuff that happened back in the 17th century.That is, the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth not managing to turn a weakened Russia into its puppet state.
Ah, i see you learn fake propaganda reality for 17th century history too.
No, that mess goes further back, and out of all the triggering the other stuff that happened later is generally at the forefront.
 
Ah, i see you learn fake propaganda reality for 17th century history too.
No, that mess goes further back, and out of all the triggering the other stuff that happened later is generally at the forefront.
My point exactly!
Thanks for corroborating my thesis, lol.
But I am tired and give very few fucks atm, so I shall not make you sing me the song of your people.
Oh, and btw, the only Polish figure of note I ever heard of in school was Vladislav III of Varna.The siege of Vienna was mentioned, but the Western participants were not.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have never had much of an interest in Polish history.
 
My point exactly!
Thanks for corroborating my thesis, lol.
But I am tired and give very few fucks atm, so I shall not make you sing me the song of your people.
Oh, and btw, the only Polish figure of note I ever heard of in school was Vladislav III of Varna.The siege of Vienna was mentioned, but the Western participants were not.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have never had much of an interest in Polish history.
So you talk shit about stuff you don't know about, got it.
What part of "the stuff that happened later" do you struggle to understand?
 
The Wallonia-Flanders situation is real, the other, similar problems in the Balkans, which like Kosovo, the USA helped foment, are real.

Oh, yeah, right, that is an invented country right there you Americans decided to claim as a thing, Kosovo.
...US really had no role whatsoever in fomenting ethnic conflict or nationalism in the Balkans. That cat was thoroughly and completely out of the bag and running around the block impregnating strays since the Hapsburgs.

American didn't have to do shit to foment Albanians. The impetus for the shit existed long before the US was in any place to poke at the region, and Yugoslavia's collapse meant the central authority was not in the position it had been to forcibly put a lid on it. You'd be more accurate to pin the blame on Milosivic's revocation of autonomy fomenting the situation.

Also, you are kinda-sorta trying to create a Kurdistan, too.
Ha! That's a good one. America has done basically jack-all for Kurdish nationalism beyond supplying guns, ammo, and gun-pointing-training to both/all-three Kurdish shitshow power-bases in the region so they could be pointed at Iraq or ISIS. Our fear of angering Erdogan or, more recently, creating another Middle East perpetual occupation zone, has kept us far away from the thing.

The extent of US attempting to create a Kurdistan is giving away military shit (that we do for everyone we're semi-friendly with who can conveniently fight in 'our' interests) and the idea getting the occasional rhetorical bone by US politicians or some bits of the vet scene (or the odd hard-left supporter who went over to Rojava, or more commonly just looked it up on wikipedia, with stars in their eyes).
 
So you talk shit about stuff you don't know about, got it.
What part of "the stuff that happened later" do you struggle to understand?
Dunno, the other Pole tends to be rather fond of that Commonwealth of yours.
Also, if you are butthurt about the partition of Poland and the Molotov-Ribentropp thing you should be barking up Germany and Georgia's trees, since those were done by two Krauts and a Georgian.
Also it is not like you didn't antagonize the Russians on numerous occasions before and in between those, so yeah, you might own up to your own part in any mess you got into with the Russians.
 
...US really had no role whatsoever in fomenting ethnic conflict or nationalism in the Balkans. That cat was thoroughly and completely out of the bag and running around the block impregnating strays since the Hapsburgs.

American didn't have to do shit to foment Albanians. The impetus for the shit existed long before the US was in any place to poke at the region, and Yugoslavia's collapse meant the central authority was not in the position it had been to forcibly put a lid on it. You'd be more accurate to pin the blame on Milosivic's revocation of autonomy fomenting the situation.


Ha! That's a good one. America has done basically jack-all for Kurdish nationalism beyond supplying guns, ammo, and gun-pointing-training to both/all-three Kurdish shitshow power-bases in the region so they could be pointed at Iraq or ISIS. Our fear of angering Erdogan or, more recently, creating another Middle East perpetual occupation zone, has kept us far away from the thing.

The extent of US attempting to create a Kurdistan is giving away military shit (that we do for everyone we're semi-friendly with who can conveniently fight in 'our' interests) and the idea getting the occasional rhetorical bone by US politicians or some bits of the vet scene (or the odd hard-left supporter who went over to Rojava, or more commonly just looked it up on wikipedia, with stars in their eyes).
And you bombed the shit out of Serbia because of the invented country of Kosovo, and you bombed the shit out of Saddam because of the Kurds.
Military assistance is the most concrete form of state recognition, IMHO.
Oh, and there is also Taiwan.
Remember, that part of China that is still Nationalist, while the real China has the political recongition which you first gave to Taiwan, then handed it back to China, the seat at the UN, which you forcibly took from Taiwan and gave to China also.
 
As bad as the US recruiting situation might be, I'm pretty sure Russia is worse off. We're not the ones sending half trained conscripts off the frontlines.



We have captured documents and an overstretched and at points collapsed logistics traun on the Russia side to suggest they they did intend to finish this quickly, with the only counterpoint being the Russians and their various "I meant to do that!" announcements as the war drags on.

Also, "they're fighting this with technology, not manpower", lol. I'm pretty sure it's news to to the guys in the Scooby-Doo Vans carting around tacticool maxim guns that they're the high tech side.



Ok, so first off the US is looking for old Soviet gear to send to Ukraine because that's what they're trained on, we'll gladly ship them modern stuff (IE Javelin) if it can be brought to the fight quickly, but you can't just wing it when you it comes to flying a totally new type of jet or tank.

Second, the West is resupplying Ukraine with more weapons and equipment to replace lost equipment (as is Russia, if the tractor mines are to be believed). Who's resupplying Russia again? This isn't WW2, you go to war with the equipment you have and that's basically it, building and buying new stuff takes far too long to replace destroyed equipment. Ukraine getting resupplyed and Russia not benefits Ukraine, not Russia.



Which was, for the dozenth time, a political decision and not a military defeat.



Actually, I'm going by the Russian's admission that they're falling back from Kyiv, backed up by the on the ground information.



Yeah, I bet Brazil is just sittng there, looking at the crippling sanctions and column of exploded tanks leading away from Kyiv going "Darn it, that's not fair, that should be me!"



Ok, first off that was a joke post, so "well actually" isn't really welcome here.

Secondly, if you must correct the record, can you maybe not do so by citing things that happened 200 years ago and/or actually happened in the first place?
At least in the US, just because the Army has a horrible ad at one point in time, doesn't mean there are not other ways we are recruiting.
The south is still the biggest supplier of Troops for the US
You think this is new? We had left-wing terrorist groups running terror bombing campaigns on US soil at the peak of the Cold War, while the entire Democratic Party and major cultural institutions like Hollywood simped for the fucking Soviets.

And they still lost. You do the math.



This. 95% of the stupidity seems to stem from "well, this side bad, so other side good, right?" No. No, not one fucking bit.



Hey @Chiron I'd like an answer to this too.



Ah yes, we blew up a wedding once upon a time so that's totally the same as systematically targeting hospitals, laying waste to entire suburban neighborhoods with sustained area bombardment with MLRS and using incendiary weapons - not white phosphorus, but outright thermite incendiaries, on suburbs.

Hey check this shit out. It's called a DIME bomb; Dense Inert Metal Explosive. Basically it's a bomb that uses tungsten dust as its shrapnel - it vaporizes anything within 15 feet or so, but as the air resistance slows down the tiny tungsten particles very fast, anything 17 feet away survives unscathed. Or how about that fabled Hellfire missile with pop-out sword blades? Specifically so you can take out some bastard in the left-hand seat without hurting the guy on the right. But yeah, go on and tell me about how America makes mass-murder of civilians a fucking doctrinal norm.



Which is a dogshit plan given that you need manpower to take cities, even with all the technology in the world on your side, and since Russian logistics are rail dependent they have to take cities since they control crucial rail yard junctions. Chernihiv and Konotop being two key ones they never took, which effectively cost them the battle of Kyiv. And if they want to work around the problem that means running supply convoys around the major road junctions in those cities on shitty, narrow surface roads that provide great cover for ambushes. And the fact that Ukraine was going to use such strategies isn't a shock, the US has been openly training the Baltic states to use unconventional/asymmetric warfare strategies against a potential Russian invasion for years now. So their inability to even provide a single IFV's worth of convoy escort at the beginning speaks to fucking stupidity. And even after they wised up, you know what you simply cannot do without when it comes to securing long supply routes? Local control and local patrols. And that equals manpower.



What the fuck are you babbling about? Of course they would. Ukraine started this war with less of every kind of equipment than Russia did, so even if they had not lost a single tank NATO would still want to get them as many weapons as possible. Even if they started with more, NATO would still want to do that because the sooner the war ends and the more damage inflicted on the Russian army the better it is for NATO. This is a full scale war, you fucking numpty. You don't take half-measures, you don't fuck around, you go all in, balls deep. Capiche?



"MUH AFGHANISTAN!" cries the vatnik as he wishes away eleven carrier battle groups and the most powerful airforce on the planet. "MUUUH AFGHANISTAAAAAAAAAAAAN!"



Coming from someone licking Putin's taint that's not very convincing.



lmao this



It's called being able to read a fucking book, zoomer. I know something of computer networking, oil extraction, military matters, political science and economics myself. I even know something about nutrition and diet because I lift. You don't have to be a fucking expert to call out clowns making shit up as they go along.



In term of priority ranking, "resisting the pedo globalists" is less pressing than "survive and defeat the nation literally invading your sovereign soil in order to systematically destroy your state and genocide your people." Best part is, nation that has done the latter will have a much stronger sense of identity and thus ability to resist the former.
Almost like we know the Baltic States won't be able to hold Russian by themselves. So make them suffer till we arrive.
 
I posted them way back, you refused to watch them on Telegram as you did not want to download the app on your phone. Those were your words. If you don't want to use Mash, Telegram, etc where Russia posts its stuff due to censorship on Western Platforms, you don't get to turn around and say I did not post sources.

I'm making the effort to host images/videos separately if the original tweet is behind a content wall in my big document. If you can't be bothered don't be surprised if people tell you to piss off. Besides, I'm seeing these videos reposted on Twitter anyways, and 3/4ths of them are of such poor resolution all you can tell is that a dot was killed. And sometimes you can't even see the dot.

And they overran the South, the economic heartland of Ukraine, caused the entire civilian economy to collapse, destroyed the UkA military industry, reduced them to moving at night, and got UkA to commit its mobile reserves to defend their capital instead of preventing the encirclement of Mariupol or stopping the Kherson Lodgment while it was weakly held.

So when Ukraine refuses to fight on open flat terrain that plays to all of Russia's strengths its a big failure but when Russia attempts a "feint" with 60% of their forces in urban/wooded/wet terrain that plays to all of Ukraine's strengths and neutralizes their own that's a brilliant strategy guys just read their doctrine. Lol. lmao

Even then they can't really stop the Russian Airstrikes which generally are able to hit what they want and operate openly during the day.

Then explain why Russian choppers are lofting rockets from as far away as possible, a strategy that makes it totally impossible to actually precisely target individual units. All that can do is mimic blast-frag MLRS bombardment, except without an airburst option and shittier coverage, so against anything except infantry exposed in the open its useless. Especially useless at doing what attack helicopters are supposed to do - hunt down and eliminate enemy Armored Fighting Vehicles.

Nor have they been able to sweep Russian Drones out of the sky. Given the Circumstances, the UkA air defense is doing everything right it can, its just not enough.

I've started to notice a lot of downed Orlan-10 drones. I didn't think much of it before because they're relatively small and cheap and thus can take some losses and they occasionally malfunction on their own. But the rate is ticking up fast. The entire Western defense industry has been investing heavily in EW and soft-kill countermeasures for drones in the last several years. It'd be very easy for NATO to buy some off-the-shelf tech and give it to Ukraine.


See, was that so fucking hard? Not that it much matters, because the petroleum supply chain is a constant one; especially since so much of the product is gasoline and that has a limited shelf life. You can't just subtract days elapsed since that article and claim Europe only has X days of diesel fuel left. Most people don't realize just how little gas is actually stored at a gas station; any station that's decently busy can expect at least one tanker delivery from a refinery a day, and busy ones will get two, maybe even three deliveries.

To say nothing of the civilian market's fuel availability having little bearing on longer-term military stockpiles of diesel (it keeps better) and straight petroleum itself. You think the US is the only nation with a strategic reserve?

Oh for fuck's sake the UkA OOB is on fucking Wikipedia, a quick cut and paste as I not bulleting this. All of these units are effectively destroyed. Their bases overran. Also Mariupol had a large number of men from other units retreat to it and raised Territorial Troops for defense. But since you like Planefag drink your Kool-Aid, I can't help you.

You think military units just sit in their garrison bases on the eve of invasion twiddling their fucking thumbs waiting to be attacked? You know the entire fucking point of mechanized forces is that they can carry their support equipment with them, right? And they don't do depot-level maintenance at a garrison base, that's where soldiers train and stand around in the yard mopping rain and shit. Seriously, if you don't know the barest minimum about military affairs why are you wasting our time by running your mouth?

1st and 17th armored brigades turned to 4 tank platoons, 14 tank companies, which would put them up to 132 tanks + brigade command element, but there is talk that there were simply not enough tanks and crews to make the full transition so most companies of brigade are using two platoons + command element, so before the war they were above the old authorised strength and below the new authorised strength. To make everything more complex, before the war vehicles and crews were sometimes seconded to units deploying to Donbass frontline.

Ah, thank you kindly, I wasn't aware of that information!
 
Dunno, the other Pole tends to be rather fond of that Commonwealth of yours.
Also, if you are butthurt about the partition of Poland and the Molotov-Ribentropp thing you should be barking up Germany and Georgia's trees, since those were done by two Krauts and a Georgian.
Why shouldn't we be? At least it wasn't Russian Empire.
Yes, sure, fucking tiny Georgia conquered Russia, i know you are willing to go to any lengths necessary to excuse everything Russia ever does, no need to repeat *these* bullshit lines.
For your information, Germany is currently occupying the honorable second place on the list of countries never to be trusted in Poland.
Russia was a perfectly willing and meaningful participant in both these events.
Also it is not like you didn't antagonize the Russians on numerous occasions before and in between those, so yeah, you might own up to your own part in any mess you got into with the Russians.
Russia will find a reason to be antagonized whenever they see an opportunity for a victorious war, so why the fuck bother trying to appear as a harmless doormat begging for peace. The only thing that prevents them being "antagonized" is fear of stronger force. If you want Russia to be peaceful, you need to convince Kremlin that it is them who should worry about antagonizing neighbors.
If you want to understand how ridiculous you sound, try to apply these recommendations towards the Turks.
 
Why shouldn't we be? At least it wasn't Russian Empire.
Yes, sure, fucking tiny Georgia conquered Russia, i know you are willing to go to any lengths necessary to excuse everything Russia ever does, no need to repeat *these* bullshit lines.
For your information, Germany is currently occupying the honorable second place on the list of countries never to be trusted in Poland.
Russia was a perfectly willing and meaningful participant in both these events.

Russia will find a reason to be antagonized whenever they see an opportunity for a victorious war, so why the fuck bother trying to appear as a harmless doormat begging for peace. The only thing that prevents them being "antagonized" is fear of stronger force. If you want Russia to be peaceful, you need to convince Kremlin that it is them who should worry about antagonizing neighbors.
If you want to understand how ridiculous you sound, try to apply these recommendations towards the Turks.
Yup, fun fact, Turkey was the only ally we had that didn't stab us in the back, also when they had their whole little xoup a few years ago we were happy to let them have their runaway mutineers that got to our territory, the Turks have tried shit with all their neighbors except us during Erdogan's tenure.
Wanting to have strong defenses is one thing, trying to do regime change and to constantly antrfonize them is another.

Also, you know full well what I am referring to, and the situation you are butthurt about was far more complex than 'Russia evil'.
For starters, back then, as now, you were quite belligerent and also managed to mess up any and all common European projects for German containment because you disliked the soviets more than you did the Nazis.(persistent behavior)
Also, you did fight a war with the soviets and had some expansionistic and empire building ambitions, just like now.
TL;DR I don't buy your little saintly Poland and evil Russia narrative, go try peddling it to somebody more romantically minded and allergic to complexity, like the Americans you think you are using in your little crusade against Russia, but that are actually using you.

Polish cycle in action.See memes thread for polandball example.
 
Yup, fun fact, Turkey was the only ally we had that didn't stab us in the back, also when they had their whole little xoup a few years ago we were happy to let them have their runaway mutineers that got to our territory, the Turks have tried shit with all their neighbors except us during Erdogan's tenure.
Wanting to have strong defenses is one thing, trying to do regime change and to constantly antrfonize them is another.
That's not a very long time historically...
Also, you know full well what I am referring to, and the situation you are butthurt about was far more complex than 'Russia evil'.
For starters, back then, as now, you were quite belligerent and also managed to mess up any and all common European projects for German containment because you disliked the soviets more than you did the Nazis.(persistent behavior)
Again i have no fucking idea what ridiculous theory that probably includes supporting commies you are talking about here.
Also, you did fight a war with the soviets and had some expansionistic and empire building ambitions, just like now.
>a war with fucking Soviets
>expansionist
No, a war against Soviets is by definition defensive on account of being on the same planet if nothing else, and there were plenty of other reasons.
Soviets were the ultimate expansionist force in Europe. They had ambitions going as far as Spain.
Is it more of the "if you don't give Russia everything it demands, when it wants it, you are antagonizing Russia" clownery?
TL;DR I don't buy your little saintly Poland and evil Russia narrative, go try peddling it to somebody more romantically minded and allergic to complexity, like the Americans you think you are using in your little crusade against Russia, but that are actually using you.

Polish cycle in action.See memes thread for polandball example.
Yadda yadda Russian cycle aswell.
Yeah, sure, go on, keep believing that Russia became the largest country in the world by being totally peaceful and non-expansionist :D
 
In fact i did hear of it. If USA was interpreting it the same way Russia is interpreting its "sphere of influence" now, there would have never been a Cuban Missile Crisis, because there would have never been a communist Cuba, at least not for very long.

What do you think the Platt Amendment was lol? The Banana Wars? Hell, for a Cuba specific example, what happened in Cuba in 1918?
 
And yet the USMC didn't make it happen, even though it certainly could.

You might find it useful to research things before attempting to speak on them:

On July 14, Menocal formally offered training camps in the province of Oriente to USA. The first contingent, consisting of under 1000 American Marines, came to Cuba in August 1917. Technically, the operation was not an intervention. Rather, the Cuban government formally invited the US army to train in a warm climate. As guests of the government, the US troops were obliged to stay in strict limits.[1]​
During the first year of arrival, the US Marines assumed responsibility for the objects of infrastructure related to sugar plantations. In October, they established a number of permanent camps. Already in November 1917, the presence of the troops caused anti-American protests. In December 1917, another thousand Marines arrived.[1]
The troops performed patrols of the countryside to ensure that sugar plantations were safe. In addition, they collected intelligence data, tried to obtain general information and passed it to the United States, as well as to authorities in Havana. They were instructed to fully cooperate with local authorities, in order to minimize frictions in Cuban-American relations. The population generally remained hostile to the Marines. In 1918, partially as a result of the measures undertaken, Cuba produced a record sugar harvest.[1]​
By mid-1918, the disturbance in the countryside ceased, and the main threat to sugar production was coming from the protests in the cities, mostly in form of strikes, which in particular targeted infrastructure for shipping and production of sugar. These protest were particularly strong in 1918 and 1919, spreading over the whole country. The American authorities preferred to represent these protests as political and leftist, which would justify intervention according to the Platt Amendment, even though such intervention would contradict to the original 1917 agreement with the Cuban Government. In December 1918, an additional 1,120 Marines arrived to the Guantánamo naval base. Additional six thousands were ready to arrive. The field operations were modified accordingly, and Marines were now patrolling the cities.[1]
 
In term of priority ranking, "resisting the pedo globalists" is less pressing than "survive and defeat the nation literally invading your sovereign soil in order to systematically destroy your state and genocide your people." Best part is, nation that has done the latter will have a much stronger sense of identity and thus ability to resist the former.

Since the globalist are ruling Spain, Portugal and Italy are making my life is miserable where I live, where my friends and family live. So causing a thermonuclear war for Ukraine backed by the same people that ostracized us IS DEFINITEVILY NOT ON THE PRIORITY LIST.
 
You might find it useful to research things before attempting to speak on them:

On July 14, Menocal formally offered training camps in the province of Oriente to USA. The first contingent, consisting of under 1000 American Marines, came to Cuba in August 1917. Technically, the operation was not an intervention. Rather, the Cuban government formally invited the US army to train in a warm climate. As guests of the government, the US troops were obliged to stay in strict limits.[1]​
During the first year of arrival, the US Marines assumed responsibility for the objects of infrastructure related to sugar plantations. In October, they established a number of permanent camps. Already in November 1917, the presence of the troops caused anti-American protests. In December 1917, another thousand Marines arrived.[1]
The troops performed patrols of the countryside to ensure that sugar plantations were safe. In addition, they collected intelligence data, tried to obtain general information and passed it to the United States, as well as to authorities in Havana. They were instructed to fully cooperate with local authorities, in order to minimize frictions in Cuban-American relations. The population generally remained hostile to the Marines. In 1918, partially as a result of the measures undertaken, Cuba produced a record sugar harvest.[1]​
By mid-1918, the disturbance in the countryside ceased, and the main threat to sugar production was coming from the protests in the cities, mostly in form of strikes, which in particular targeted infrastructure for shipping and production of sugar. These protest were particularly strong in 1918 and 1919, spreading over the whole country. The American authorities preferred to represent these protests as political and leftist, which would justify intervention according to the Platt Amendment, even though such intervention would contradict to the original 1917 agreement with the Cuban Government. In December 1918, an additional 1,120 Marines arrived to the Guantánamo naval base. Additional six thousands were ready to arrive. The field operations were modified accordingly, and Marines were now patrolling the cities.[1]
And yet Cuba turned communist in the end and USA didn't send the USMC to fix that.
What you are arguing here is that USA was trying to keep Cuba with a very light hand, and just let it go when it wasn't enough, which is about the opposite of what Russia is doing.
 
And yet Cuba turned communist in the end and USA didn't send the USMC to fix that.
What you are arguing here is that USA was trying to keep Cuba with a very light hand, and just let it go when it wasn't enough, which is about the opposite of what Russia is doing.

Sure, if you ignore the multiple times before the final success of Communism in Cuba we did intervene militarily (which was your actual argument until this goalpost shift), the decade long proxy war we fought beforehand by arming Batista, then the Bay of Pigs, the multi decade lone blockade that has continued to the modern day, and the literal hundreds of assassination attempts on Cuban leadership. Oh, and the fact the Soviets placed hundreds of tactical nuclear weapons in Cuba and threatened to use them in case we ever did send in the Marines; an effective deterrent, to be sure.

As for Russia and Ukraine, Cuba doesn't feature a large ethno-linguistic American minority being abused for eight years, isn't seeking to join the Neo-Warsaw Pact nor does it currently intend to host Sino-Russian weapon systems.
 

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