Trump Investigations Thread

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
How 'bout perpetrating fraud on the American people in order for them to give up more of their liberties? @Megadeath
-It's what Obama did during his tenure in office regarding Obamacare.

How 'bout conducting a mis-information campaign in order to force the populace to take experimental drugs that are provably harmful in order to gain more power, influence and money?
-It's what Biden & Co have done and are currently doing.

Neither of those is as bad as the degree of mishandling of state secrets, and the attempts to obfuscate and further them that trump engaged in.
Bullcrap. Your sense of proportion and scale is way off.
Neither of those is as bad as attempts to fundamentally undermine the basis of American democracy that trump has engaged in.
Undermine the democracy? That's a rather liberal interpretation that come straigth outta MSN and the rest of the leftist media.
I, and almost everyone else that is/was suspicious of the election, would have happily shut up if there had been even a smidge of actual court room investigation into at least half of the 'interesting' cases.
Investigating our elections should be a standard affair that happens EVERY time there is suspicion. THAT is what will safeguard our REPUBLIC. Refusing to aid and cooperate with those investigations is what makes the Dems and the rest of the Establishment look guilty as hell.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Yes, it could be considered a structure, though I'd even consider that debatable since "structure" implies organisation and a degree of control, rather than merely a group moving in the same direction by consensus. It sure as hell doesn't count as monlithic though, unless you're using some definition I've never seen. Monolithic literally means that it's one, single and united thing. That's the opposite of many disparate elements, regardless of whether those elements often have some or many overlapping goals.


Perhaps we could try dealing in specifics, rather than vague allusion if that's not too hard for you? I'll get you started; Clinton got a blow job and lied about it, and Obama occasionally blew up innocent people in targeted attacks. Neither of those is as bad as the degree of mishandling of state secrets, and the attempts to obfuscate and further them that trump engaged in. Neither of those is as bad as attempts to fundamentally undermine the basis of American democracy that trump has engaged in. Perhaps you had other specifics in mind though?

Clinton had a career-long track-record of sex crimes, including rape accusations, that were completely white-washed and brushed off by the political left. These came to some limited light during the impeachment, but the media went to bat for him, and would never have released the Lewinsky story if Matt Drudge hadn't broken it on the internet.

Obama administration scandals:
1. Fast and Furious armed cartels, some of these arms eventually were used to kill Americans.
2. Lois Lerner IRS tax persecution scandal. Blatant weaponization of the government against political opponents.
3. The Ben-Ghazi scandal. Both Obama and Hillary knowingly lied to the American public about this.
4. The entire Iran deal.

That's just off the top of my head. It also should be considered a scandal when Obama ordered production of the F-22 to stop, even though that was within his technical legal authority.
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
How 'bout perpetrating fraud on the American people in order for them to give up more of their liberties? @Megadeath
-It's what Obama did during his tenure in office regarding Obamacare.

How 'bout conducting a mis-information campaign in order to force the populace to take experimental drugs that are provably harmful in order to gain more power, influence and money?
-It's what Biden & Co have done and are currently doing.
That isn't actually being very specific now, is it? "Perpetrating fraud" how exactly? Which laws were broke, specifically, and by which particular actions? As for the drugs, I can only assume you're talking about the same vaccination trump also pushed/pushes, and that was developed under his administration so I'm not sure how you can argue that's something that makes Biden worse than trump, even if we accept your stupid beliefs as fact.

Clinton had a career-long track-record of sex crimes, including rape accusations, that were completely white-washed and brushed off by the political left. These came to some limited light during the impeachment, but the media went to bat for him, and would never have released the Lewinsky story if Matt Drudge hadn't broken it on the internet.

Obama administration scandals:
1. Fast and Furious armed cartels, some of these arms eventually were used to kill Americans.
2. Lois Lerner IRS tax persecution scandal. Blatant weaponization of the government against political opponents.
3. The Ben-Ghazi scandal. Both Obama and Hillary knowingly lied to the American public about this.
4. The entire Iran deal.

That's just off the top of my head. It also should be considered a scandal when Obama ordered production of the F-22 to stop, even though that was within his technical legal authority.
Yep, Clinton had sex problems. But, a) So did trump and b) Neither of their sex crimes real or imagined are significant against the major charges here.

As for the Obama issues:
1. Yep, US governments always seem to be involved with various shady organisations, and often times that comes back around and bites them. But it's both common, and very limited in the damage it can do to America as a country.
2. Lois Lerner isn't actually Obama.
3. Politicians lie to the American people. Also, water is wet and the sky is blue. It can even at times be the morally right thing to do. It certainly isn't a crime though under most circumstances.
4. The Iran deal, what exactly? Beyond trump's insistence it was bad I mean?

Bonus round; the F-22 is one if not the best planes in the world. It's fantastic, and god I'm glad America has it. Even just working off publicly available information though, it's reasonable that it was discontinued. The f-35 is close enough, or more importantly better enough than everyone else's fighter's. It's also cheaper, and much better designed to accommodate improvements over it's service life. We're also already hearing the first publicly available information about successor programs, and several new and maturing technologies are likely to change the paradigm of future air warfare so significantly that heavy investment in the extra edge the f-22 gives now is irrelevant. American air power is more than good enough if a shooting war kicks off with China tomorrow. If it happens on a more plausible time frame, newer and even better stuff is coming down thr pipeline. I won't say that discontinuing it was definitely the best choice, but like I say, even with just what's widely known, it hardly seems to rise to the level of a scandal. Considering all the development and knowledge we are not privy to, the case is presumably even stronger.

Regardless... You're talking about scandals when we're discussing concrete and demonstrable serious crimes trump has committed. I don't really give that much of a shit if the saxophone player can't keep it in his pants, beyond not really liking him as a person for it. I don't like American involvement with cartels and even sometimes terrorists, but I do accept that sometimes it can seem like the right idea at the time. I'm no moral absolutist, and I'm quite prepared to accept working with the lesser of two evils to prevent a worse one, and I acknowledge that hindsight will sometimes show that a choice wasn't right. That can call for examination to make sure what was known when and by who, and if they made a good choice with that information. When not, there should indeed be some consequences. Regardless... Nothing you've said is even vaguely comparable in a legal sense to stealing government secrets, lying about it and hiding them from the government whilst flaunting them to random members of the public, nor to attempts to undermine the basis of american democracy and the transfer of administrational power.
 

Vyor

My influence grows!
They are trying to punish him for committing a large number of very serious crimes.
he reason that trump is facing legal trouble, and other presidents haven't, is because his crimes are so much more serious and blatant.
... really? No, really? There is maybe a case for the documents if he wasn't the, you know, fucking president.

There is nothing for january 6th or the election lawsuits. Literally nothing. He is not the first president to have sued over elections, he isn't the first president to have lost those lawsuits, he isn't even the first president to have argued against the results. Fuck, he isn't even the first president to have asked the senate and the vice president to discard elector slates.

This has never been illegal. Ever. The things that allow it are written straight into the constitution

Clinton got a blow job and lied about it,

Committed perjury, he was on trial for different things at the time and the republicans in charge of the investigation thought that the best way to prove that Clinton would and had lied under oath was to catch him in an easier to swallow(ha) lie and expose it on the national stage.

They didn't take into account that the media would only cover that and would use it to paint the entire investigation and trial with, but the media did because they've always been democrat stooges.
 

Megadeath

Well-known member
... really? No, really? There is maybe a case for the documents if he wasn't the, you know, fucking president.
Except, he wasn't the president. Having served as president in the past doesn't give you the right in perpetuity to just call dibbs on government documents, nor the right to lie to and obstruct organs of government.
There is nothing for january 6th or the election lawsuits. Literally nothing. He is not the first president to have sued over elections, he isn't the first president to have lost those lawsuits, he isn't even the first president to have argued against the results. Fuck, he isn't even the first president to have asked the senate and the vice president to discard elector slates.

This has never been illegal. Ever. The things that allow it are written straight into the constitution
He lied, repeatedly, knowingly and blatantly. He pressured, coerced and encouraged others to commit crimes to support his lies and ambitions. That has always been illegal.
Committed perjury, he was on trial for different things at the time and the republicans in charge of the investigation thought that the best way to prove that Clinton would and had lied under oath was to catch him in an easier to swallow(ha) lie and expose it on the national stage.

They didn't take into account that the media would only cover that and would use it to paint the entire investigation and trial with, but the media did because they've always been democrat stooges.
Uh huh... And trump falsely attested to the return of all the documents. So, the worst crime you can point at for Clinton would be one of the least for trump. I'd be perfectly happy if Clinton were tried for perjury personally. On the other hand, it's often not pursued even when the defendant wasn't president at the time. It's hardly some insane double standard to let shit like that slide whilst still pursuing the much more serious charges trump faces.
 

DarthOne

☦️
Watch when he gets in office, not only will we get a war but only 9 million illegals this year and only a small fortune to Israel. I watched the media and nearly every single institution in America attack the man for the past 8 years. I know when i'm watching a fight to the death or WCW(utter fabricated nonsense)🤣

…the small fortune to Israel, I admittedly can see. Seriously, why are our politicians so focused on a small, foreign nation?
 

Cherico

Well-known member
…the small fortune to Israel, I admittedly can see. Seriously, why are our politicians so focused on a small, foreign nation?

Its a part of the deal we have to keep the strait of Suez open, we basically agreed to bribe Israel and Egypt to not fight. Egypt likewise gets money and gear as a part of this deal but since their not surrounded by enemies we don't hear as much about it.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Its a part of the deal we have to keep the strait of Suez open, we basically agreed to bribe Israel and Egypt to not fight. Egypt likewise gets money and gear as a part of this deal but since their not surrounded by enemies we don't hear as much about it.
The Israeli/Egyptian peace is a true success story for the Mid-east and world at large; neither party wants to engage in hostilities these against the other days, even without US 'bribes'.
 

LordsFire

Internet Wizard
Yep, Clinton had sex problems. But, a) So did trump and b) Neither of their sex crimes real or imagined are significant against the major charges here.

As for the Obama issues:
1. Yep, US governments always seem to be involved with various shady organisations, and often times that comes back around and bites them. But it's both common, and very limited in the damage it can do to America as a country.
2. Lois Lerner isn't actually Obama.
3. Politicians lie to the American people. Also, water is wet and the sky is blue. It can even at times be the morally right thing to do. It certainly isn't a crime though under most circumstances.
4. The Iran deal, what exactly? Beyond trump's insistence it was bad I mean?

You're literally just regurgitating leftist propaganda points.

The charges against Trump are a mixture of transparent nonsense, and potential minor procedural violations blown up into massive scale nonsense for nakedly partisan political reasons. How many people have died because of what he's accused of?

US Citizens died directly because of illegal and immoral things Obama did, things that there was absolutely zero excuse for doing. The Fast and Furious was particularly egregious in this regard.

Clinton normalizing not just promiscuity, but lying about it, has done horrendous damage to American culture. It was already over-saturated with sexualization, but that was basically the death knell to abstinence or restraint on such things in popular culture. And that's before you go into the fact that unlike Trump, the accusations of rape against him were very credible.
 

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
Founder
Oh good. So we can stop giving at least two foreign nations US taxpayer’s money.
Not really, they have a lot of money that flows both directions, including back to the US civie side with Egyptian cotton products, as well as some decent manufacturing of tooling and such.

And the Suez isn't going anywhere, and helping ensure it is a safe and steady transit point is in the general interests of not just the locals but the planet at large.

And with the Israeli's, you seem to forget there are a lot of American Jews who have family who live in Israel for some length of time in their life if they are dual citizens.

I put 'bribes' in quotes because I knew that some fools would think of a very beneficial mutual relationship on the part of all parties, based on trade, family ties (Egyptian Americans are a thing to), religious ties to your church (Copt's say hello), and a geographic/economic position on the Suez and Nile and Jordan rivers.

Trying to fuck up the relationships with either Israel or Egypt on America's part is something only a fool would desire.
 

Vyor

My influence grows!
Except, he wasn't the president. Having served as president in the past doesn't give you the right in perpetuity to just call dibbs on government documents, nor the right to lie to and obstruct organs of government.

Was president when he took them.

And define "obstruct organs of government" please.

He lied, repeatedly, knowingly and blatantly. He pressured, coerced and encouraged others to commit crimes to support his lies and ambitions. That has always been illegal.

Lying isn't against the law. No one committed any crimes because he asked them to. You are a liar.

Uh huh... And trump falsely attested to the return of all the documents

No, he said that he complied with FBI requests and recommendations on how and where to secure the documents and said that he gave all requested documents to them.

Which he did.
 

The Immortal Watch Dog

Well-known member
Hetman
1- the United States Government is completely at odds with the American people.

2- the Department of Justice has committed treason, multiple times throughout the last 60 years, most egregiously during the cold war most recently during the Trump administration

3- There is a concentrated cabal of internationalists and domestic traitors who are trying to destroy the republic.

4- They couldn't even handle a moderate populist opposing their big gay lunacy l, literal big gay lunacy

5- any American who supports the Trump indictments does not love the United States and harbors loyalty to hostile foreign powers in his heart any foreigner who does is just an example of why our allies are worthless ingrates who should be left to their fate
 
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Terthna

Professional Lurker
"Perjury (also known as foreswearing) is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding."

he's wrong about everything else, but i'll remind you that Perjury is a serious enough charge that Clinton was impeached for it.
Lying to the government isn't against the law; so long are you're a politician or have decent political connections. Or at least, that's how things always seem to work out; as Clinton himself proved by being acquitted (thanks to the Republicans) and going on to serve out his second term.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
5- any American who supports the Trump indictments does not love the United States and harbors loyalty to hostile foreign powers in his heart any foreigner who does is just an example of why are allies are worthless ingrates who should be left to their fate
That is complete and utter whargrrbl.

No one should be exempt from the law. Those indictments charge Trump with crimes procsecutors have evidence for. Whether there is enough evidence to secure convictions remains to be seen.
 

Rocinante

Russian Bot
Founder
That is complete and utter whargrrbl.

No one should be exempt from the law. Those indictments charge Trump with crimes procsecutors have evidence for. Whether there is enough evidence to secure convictions remains to be seen.
Yeah but as long as others are exempt, I don't support them just going for one political party.

All or nothing.

I'd prefer the go after everyone, or no one. What's really bad is just going after one side.

What's REALLY bad is when it's an ex-president, and the current president's primary rival.

When they lock up Joe Biden, Fauci, etc for their crimes and corruption, I'll no longer care if they arrest Trump for crimes.

But I refuse to accept a legal system that only goes for one side, even if there might be some legitimacy to those charges.
 

bintananth

behind a desk
Yeah but as long as others are exempt, I don't support them just going for one political party.

All or nothing.

I'd prefer the go after everyone, or no one. What's really bad is just going after one side.

What's REALLY bad is when it's an ex-president, and the current president's primary rival.

When they lock up Joe Biden, Fauci, etc for their crimes and corruption, I'll no longer care if they arrest Trump for crimes.

But I refuse to accept a legal system that only goes for one side, even if there might be some legitimacy to those charges.
I'm in agreement that both sides should be treated equally.

I, however, do not think that using examples of other people getting away with misdeeds is in any way a valid reason for not punishing whoever is currently under scrutiny for their misdeeds.
 

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