The War in Afghanistan

[Husky_Khan]

Well it is for wheat yield, not acreage used for wheat or wheat cultivation. It could be very well the lack of Taliban Talibanning about allowed farmers incentive to grow wheat and deliver it out and about because they'd knew they'd get compensated for it.

 

[Marduk]

Interesting. Though it would be fascinating to know how much of these new areas farmed are marginal land only made useful through American fertilizers and equipment which will no longer by available. Because if they were good agricultural lands before then they would have been in use already. Look up the Soviet Virgin Lands campaign for what happens when you use land for something it is not meant for.

Another difficulty in the area is the difference between official statistics and actual conditions on the ground. With a lot of the information gathering left to corrupt local Afghan officials it could be difficult to get good information while we were there. I know for a fact that Afghanistan's production of opium has increased dramatically since we invaded. I wonder how much of the land listed as used for grain is actually used for drugs.

I think the starvation problem is less lack of physical access to food, or growing opium instead of food, its just that there is a large number of people, especially of urban population, who have fed themselves off the western aid and make work based economy. Afghanistan is not North Korea, they have as leaky border with Pakistan as ever, so they can import food, the problem is that farmers, whether they grow wheat or opium, are no more eager to give away food or money for food than traders are. Especially after the Taliban take their cut. And for all the PR about islamic charity and shit, Taliban give priority to paying the dudes with guns over feeding the poor.

Also reminder that when it comes to propaganda and covering their asses, the Taliban can easily compete with the slickest of western political critters.

Taliban 'Prime Minister' Tells Starving Afghans Famine Is a 'Test from Allah'

The Taliban "prime minister" of Afghanistan delivered a bizarre audio address claiming that famine is "a great test from Allah."

www.breitbart.com

Akhund described famine as a “great test of Allah” that has arrived because “the servants have begun to rebel against Allah.”


“May Allah Almighty help us to cry out to Allah Almighty and solve our problems,” he continued.


Akhund described gratitude to the Taliban, presumably for establishing radical jihadist rule in the country, as “obligatory” and insisted the Taliban have no responsibility for any problems in the country.


“There are cries of unemployment and, with the advent of the Emirate [the Taliban rule], prices have skyrocketed … would it be fair to associate this price hike with the Emirate?” he asked. “Did the famine come with the Emirate or did it already exist in this country?”


“God forbid that you should be suspicious of such a blessed system, security and government, or that a useless word should be uttered about it,” Akhund warned, “God Almighty will be displeased with you.”
“If we do not give thanks for this blessing, Allah will punish us severely,” he concluded.


The United Arab Emirates (UAE) newspaper The National reported many Afghans were outraged by the demand to absolve the Taliban of association with the country’s problems and Akhund’s lack of actionable tasks in his messaging – he notably did not mention anything the Taliban was actually doing to alleviate famine concerns.

Taliban: The famine was there all along, remember that its heresy to blame us for any problems.

 

[Bacle]

I may not like Omar, but she's got a point here.

 

[Zachowon]

Do you think our allies punish the drone operators for this stuff?
You acting like the US is the only one that does these things.
Also. What did he leak? And do not say "Go to wiki leaks" because I cant

 

[Bacle]

Do you think our allies punish the drone operators for this stuff?
You acting like the US is the only one that does these things.
Also. What did he leak? And do not say "Go to wiki leaks" because I cant

I have no idea what leak, but I know the drone strike in question, the one that killed no enemies, only innocents, in our bumbled withdrawal from A-stan.

Also, just because our allies are callous, doesn't mean we should be.

Unless of course the point is to create more insurgents/enemies to fight later, to help justify DoD budgets, by allowing bad calls and strikes to go unpunished, which will anger and radicalize people who knew those innocents.

You watch the Expanse, right? You remember Avasarala's speech after the first rocks hit Earth, and they struck back at Pallus Station, the one about creating ng more extremists and radical when we strike civies?

Maybe you should pay more attention to the ripples of the actions the US military takes, instead of being damn near an uncritical cheerleader.

 

[Zachowon]

I have no idea what leak, but I know the drone strike in question, the one that killed no enemies, only innocents, in our bumbled withdrawal from A-stan.

Also, just because our allies are callous, doesn't mean we should be.

Unless of course the point is to create more insurgents/enemies to fight later, to help justify DoD budgets, by allowing bad calls and strikes to go unpunished, which will anger and radicalize people who knew those innocents.

You watch the Expanse, right? You remember Avasarala's speech after the first rocks hit Earth, and they struck back at Pallus Station, the one about creating ng more extremists and radical when we strike civies?

Maybe you should pay more attention to the ripples of the actions the US military takes, instead of being damn near an uncritical cheerleader.

I havnt seen expanse. Gonna watch it and do a whole let's watch here for yall to see my reactions.

Okay. Part of the MDMP and the IPB process is knowing the 2nd and 3rd orders of effects.
Do you think the higher ups will always listen to Intel? Majority do, but if the president says shoot they bypass further intel on it.

 

[Bacle]

I havnt seen expanse. Gonna watch it and do a whole let's watch here for yall to see my reactions.

Okay. Part of the MDMP and the IPB process is knowing the 2nd and 3rd orders of effects.
Do you think the higher ups will always listen to Intel? Majority do, but if the president says shoot they bypass further intel on it.

My understanding is that the order for that strike was locally authorized, not dictated by DC.

Edit: In fact I'm pretty sure DC had to pay out a settlement of some sort because of that strike.

I'll try to find the article.

Edit 2: Here we go:

U.S. Vows to Pay Families of Afghans Killed in Drone Strike

The U.S. announced it is committed to giving condolence payments to the families of those killed during an errant U.S. drone strike in Kabul.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Marduk]

I may not like Omar, but she's got a point here.

No she doesn't. Do the Taliban routinely punish their own if they accidentally some civilians?
Do Russians?
Do Syrians?
Do Turks?
Do Iranians and their militias?

Yeah, any military who did that would be insane to do that, as indicated by the fact that none of your more or less competent but certainly experienced with ME insurgencies competitors do.

I have no idea what leak, but I know the drone strike in question, the one that killed no enemies, only innocents, in our bumbled withdrawal from A-stan.

Also, just because our allies are callous, doesn't mean we should be.

No, you shouldn't be because your allies are, you should be because it works.

Unless of course the point is to create more insurgents/enemies to fight later, to help justify DoD budgets, by allowing bad calls and strikes to go unpunished, which will anger and radicalize people who knew those innocents.

You watch the Expanse, right? You remember Avasarala's speech after the first rocks hit Earth, and they struck back at Pallus Station, the one about creating ng more extremists and radical when we strike civies?

That's a very simplistic take common among the left, because it agrees with what their want in this sphere of things.
In reality, its much more complicated. You think that if there was no civilians accidentaly'd by the west, the Taliban, AQ, ISIL and the like would go "oh shit, we've got nothing, we can't make any new propaganda anymore"
Of course not. Yeah, they use this stuff when it happens, but that's just opportunistic, they can do well enough without it too.
There is also a hard limit in the other direction - there are only so many people who are going to be radicalized by this sort of propaganda. If there was no such limit, Assad would have drowned in human waves of terrorists considering the shit he did to win the war. Yet he's still there, somehow. What's his magic trick that prevents his countless war crimes from producing more and more terrorists?
I for one think there is no magic trick. He just killed off all who would do that.

Edit: In fact I'm pretty sure DC had to pay out a settlement of some sort because of that strike.

According to this article, its less a case of "had to pay" and more "stupidly volunteered to give them money and resettle them in USA, so that just in case they still hold a grievance after being given the money they can have targets close at hand, rather than on the other side of the world".

 

[Arch Dornan]

Death to Pakistan?

You need someone who can understand what they're saying if it's true or not.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

Death to Pakistan?

You need someone who can understand what they're saying if it's true or not.

I doubt anything will come of it, both are puppets of the Chinese Communist Party

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Do not discount the Taliban's need to 'be in charge' of Afghanistan. IF they feel that Pakistan OR China is getting too uppity...it'll come to bloody fists.

 

[Zachowon]

Do not discount the Taliban's need to 'be in charge' of Afghanistan. IF they feel that Pakistan OR China is getting too uppity...it'll come to bloody fists.

Very much this.
People think "They hate America and work with China and Pakistan" and immediately think they want fight back.
Remember Russia also couldn't beat them

 

[Bacle]

Very much this.
People think "They hate America and work with China and Pakistan" and immediately think they want fight back.
Remember Russia also couldn't beat them

You seem to be forgetting the reason for that was US weapons, particularly Stingers and the like.

Without the US getting involved, the USSR probably would have taken A-stan.

 

[Zachowon]

You seem to be forgetting the reason for that was US weapons, particularly Stingers and the like.

Without the US getting involved, the USSR probably would have taken A-stan.

Uh...not true.
They wernt winning even before US intervention. They had grounds but still getting butt kicked

 

[Bacle]

Uh...not true.
They wernt winning even before US intervention. They had grounds but still getting butt kicked

Not really; before US involvement the Afghans barely had any AA to use against Hinds and other soviet aircraft.

Without our Stingers and such, USSR would have just ground A-stan down with air power, as they cared a lot less about collateral damage than we claim to.

 

[Zachowon]

Not really; before US involvement the Afghans barely had any AA to use against Hinds and other soviet aircraft.

Without our Stingers and such, USSR would have just ground A-stan down with air power, as they cared a lot less about collateral damage than we claim to.

I mean, it isn't an auto I win button. They also were still trying to run the country so they had to have people support.
China can't risk its best and road initiatives for rare metals in A-stan to he put at risk and they know they would not be able to do anything to the country should they try to invade.
Because the US would supply them once again.

 

[Bacle]

I mean, it isn't an auto I win button. They also were still trying to run the country so they had to have people support.
China can't risk its best and road initiatives for rare metals in A-stan to he put at risk and they know they would not be able to do anything to the country should they try to invade.
Because the US would supply them once again.

The difference between peossibe airspace and non-permissive airspace is night and day for COIN, which is why the US gave the Taliban and co Stingers during the Soviet invasion.

As for the current situation...I'm not holding my breath for the Taliban to actually resist the CCP, even if they start stuff with Pakistan.

 

[Zachowon]

The difference between peossibe airspace and non-permissive airspace is night and day for COIN, which is why the US gave the Taliban and co Stingers during the Soviet invasion.

As for the current situation...I'm not holding my breath for the Taliban to actually resist the CCP, even if they start stuff with Pakistan.

The Taliban will fight what ever they want. So yeah...

 

[Chiron]

Not really; before US involvement the Afghans barely had any AA to use against Hinds and other soviet aircraft.

Without our Stingers and such, USSR would have just ground A-stan down with air power, as they cared a lot less about collateral damage than we claim to.

Bulk of Soviet Fixed Wing and Rotary Wing losses were from RPG-7s. Stingers as given then were ineffective as you had to be behind the target and the Soviets easily countered them. Afghans preferred the Soviet MANPADS when they could get them as you could be in front of the target and it was easier to procure.

As it was, the Soviets lost 333 helicopters and 118 fixed Wing aircraft, the bulk of which were lost before the FIM-91 even arrived in late 1986 and didn't score kills till 1987.

 

[VictortheMonarch]

The Taliban will fight what ever they want. So yeah...

It's nearly impossible to root out the Taliban completely, religious fanatics will always be religious fanatics. They can be beat, but it would more than likely be a Taliban run government that has a shitload of communist in it. So yeah, I doubt anything could really stop the Taliban. It's best to leave the Guerilla alone, lest he hide in his mountains. What care we for the groveling of a Senseless Ape? Let them keep their patch of desert, and if they get uppity, drone strike them liberally.