The War in Afghanistan

[PsihoKekec]

CIA proxies or true believers? In any case, this really isn't gonna end well for them.

There a plenty of Uighur and Baloch extremists willing to join either Al-Kaida or ISIS. Now since the policy of local Al-Kaida franchise is to play nice with Talibans, who are not looking for trouble abroad, those whose goal is making trouble abroad (Xingyang or Balochistan) are switching to the local ISIL franchise, which is not burdened with realpolitik.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Taliban 'BEHEAD women's youth volleyball player', report claims

Mahjabin Hakimi, a rising star of Kabul Municipality Volleyball Club, was mercilessly slaughtered by the jihadists earlier this month, her coach told The Persian Independent.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Another victim.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Senior Taliban commander, several civilians killed in Kabul hospital attack

The Islamic State group claimed responsibility for an attack at a military hospital in Kabul that killed several people including a senior Taliban commander on Tuesday, in the latest assault to rock…

www.france24.com

It begins.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

This is SOP for Afghanistan and a lot of the ME.

-There will be conflict.

 

[Bacle]

 

[Arch Dornan]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Bad time to be an Afghan, eh?

Although in some respects, it is partially our fault. We're the ones who shoved an inept democracy on them that couldn't survive and paved the way for these lunatics to return to power. Should have just restored the monarchy.

 

[nemo1986]

Bad time to be an Afghan, eh?

Although in some respects, it is partially our fault. We're the ones who shoved an inept democracy on them that couldn't survive and paved the way for these lunatics to return to power. Should have just restored the monarchy.

As well as given the tribes a lot more autonomy.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Vacuums and all that. The Taliban has been somewhat patiently awaiting their chance.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

As well as given the tribes a lot more autonomy.

In essence, treat Afghanistan like a feudal state. Have the tribal chieftains be their versions of Dukes and Barons who swear fealty to the King, whilst maintaining their own lands and militias. In return they'd uphold the King's laws and raise taxes. The King meanwhile has a small but powerful army that can smack into line any warlord who gets above his station.

That might have actually worked in all honesty.

Edit: In addition to this, the various governors, chieftains and lords of Afghanistan would be summoned to a Parliament of sorts where they'd sit as the Upper House. The Lower House meanwhile would be elected by the taxpaying public. Of course, power would be heavily slanted towards the tribes and the crown, but Afghani subjects wouldn't be voiceless.

Yes, this is a semi-recreation of medieval England. That system worked quite well for its time though, so it might work in Afghanistan.

 

[Marduk]

In essence, treat Afghanistan like a feudal state. Have the tribal chieftains be their versions of Dukes and Barons who swear fealty to the King, whilst maintaining their own lands and militias. In return they'd uphold the King's laws and raise taxes. The King meanwhile has a small but powerful army that can smack into line any warlord who gets above his station.

That might have actually worked in all honesty.

Still doesn't solve the Pakistan problem.
As for them seeking help...

CNN.com - U.S. gives $43 million to Afghanistan - May 17, 2001

Same shit, different decade.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Still doesn't solve the Pakistan problem.

True enough, but then again it might be a bit better than "copy paste unitary liberal democracy" onto a part of the world that scarcely understands what a Republic is.

 

[DarthOne]

True enough, but then again it might be a bit better than "copy paste unitary liberal democracy" onto a part of the world that scarcely understands what a Republic is.

Agreed.

 

[JagerIV]

We did literally install a college professor over the country from my understanding.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

The reason that Afghanistan is starving is that while we occupied it we exported massive amounts of food to them. Before that their population was just at a level that domestic agriculture and what imports they could afford was capable of sustaining. But with the availability of American food in our two decade occupation the birth rate skyrocketed.

Now Afghanistan has far more people than they can actually feed and no way to pay for more food. Unless someone gives them free food, huge amounts of people are going to die.

Though I do despise the Taliban, I have to admit that this mess is not entirely their fault. Afghanistan would be screwed no matter who was in charge.

 

[Marduk]

The reason that Afghanistan is starving is that while we occupied it we exported massive amounts of food to them. Before that their population was just at a level that domestic agriculture and what imports they could afford was capable of sustaining. But with the availability of American food in our two decade occupation the birth rate skyrocketed.

Now Afghanistan has far more people than they can actually feed and no way to pay for more food. Unless someone gives them free food, huge amounts of people are going to die.

Though I do despise the Taliban, I have to admit that this mess is not entirely their fault. Afghanistan would be screwed no matter who was in charge.

No, that is clearly wrong. As i've linked, this is just simply exactly the same problem they had right before 9/11.
Now its the same country, the same government, the same people, and the same problems, just 20 years later.
As for population growth, well, Afghanistan had a lot of it before Americans came, it had a lot when Americans were there, and i'd guess they will continue to have a lot now too.

Population Growth for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan

Graph and download economic data for Population Growth for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (SPPOPGROWAFG) from 1961 to 2022 about Afghanistan, population, and rate.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

No, that is clearly wrong. As i've linked, this is just simply exactly the same problem they had right before 9/11.
Now its the same country, the same government, the same people, and the same problems, just 20 years later.
As for population growth, well, Afghanistan had a lot of it before Americans came, it had a lot when Americans were there, and i'd guess they will continue to have a lot now too.

Population Growth for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan

Graph and download economic data for Population Growth for the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan (SPPOPGROWAFG) from 1961 to 2022 about Afghanistan, population, and rate.

fred.stlouisfed.org

When we arrived in Afghanistan there were about 21 million people living there. As of now there are about 40 million. An extra 19 million mouths to feed is not insignificant. However the birth rate may have changed, (and after investigating it looks as if I previously may have been wrong on that) population growth like that without an increase in food production will cause problems.

 

[History Learner]

What's lost in all of this conversation about what we did wrong, or what we should have done, etc is the fact we never should've been there in the first place.

 

[Marduk]

What's lost in all of this conversation about what we did wrong, or what we should have done, etc is the fact we never should've been there in the first place.

Depending on your definition of "being there", you may have a point. This should have been a Osama capture raid/punitive expedition, fuck the nationbuilding stuff, that part was a total waste.

When we arrived in Afghanistan there were about 21 million people living there. As of now there are about 40 million. An extra 19 million mouths to feed is not insignificant. However the birth rate may have changed, (and after investigating it looks as if I previously may have been wrong on that) population growth like that without an increase in food production will cause problems.

From what i can find, food production has also increased considerably, and the increase is in area farmed, not so much efficiency. Still, it was not enough then, and is not enough now.

 

[TyrantTriumphant]

From what i can find, food production has also increased considerably, and the increase is in area farmed, not so much efficiency. Still, it was not enough then, and is not enough now.

Interesting. Though it would be fascinating to know how much of these new areas farmed are marginal land only made useful through American fertilizers and equipment which will no longer by available. Because if they were good agricultural lands before then they would have been in use already. Look up the Soviet Virgin Lands campaign for what happens when you use land for something it is not meant for.

Another difficulty in the area is the difference between official statistics and actual conditions on the ground. With a lot of the information gathering left to corrupt local Afghan officials it could be difficult to get good information while we were there. I know for a fact that Afghanistan's production of opium has increased dramatically since we invaded. I wonder how much of the land listed as used for grain is actually used for drugs.