TyrantTriumphant
Well-known member
"Remember the Alamo" will once again become the rallying cry of Texans fighting against foreign tyrants.
Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]
- Thread starter Navarro
- Start date
Yup, anti-NCR force recruitment is going to go through the roof.
Hell, I think a lot of formerly neutral farmers and ranchers are about to scalp hunting. No connection to US forces except they'll be shooting mutual enemies.
I could even see a Texan CO for the NCR walking into the command tent and putting a few rounds through the CO or just carrying battlefield nuke into HQ.
Hell, I think a lot of formerly neutral farmers and ranchers are about to scalp hunting. No connection to US forces except they'll be shooting mutual enemies.
I could even see a Texan CO for the NCR walking into the command tent and putting a few rounds through the CO or just carrying battlefield nuke into HQ.
Jarow
Well-known member
From what I can tell looking through the thread:
-Panama Canal is too damaged for use
--Gran Colombia would most likely be in charge of it if it was active
---E-USA marines could effortlessly take it from if it was worth taking
-Nicaragua Canal exists (and I'm pretty sure is functional)
--NCR currently controls it
f1onagher
Well-known member
If the NCR was in any way capable of propaganda that'd be pretty easy to counter. Who was the party hiding behind the priceless cultural landmark as a shield? That's right, the hegemonic and homogenizing blob of the USA. Was it really that difficult to find an old warehouse or storefront to run their HQ out of? Why else would one set up in such a sensitive place other than to hold it hostage? Sounds like some Enclave apparatchik sacrificed the Alamo to a win-win gambit for the US to me.
But yeah, the living are not the only ones to suffer in war.
Crow gotta eat
That peckish, patriotic, Protestant passerine.
That would be theoretically possible by the NCR, but considering how extreme the propaganda the NCR has put out about the E-USA already, which any Texan who has visited the Union will see is not true at all (besides maybe the general militarism that exists). Plus the NCR and the pro-independence Texan faction has a greater claim to have started this war when they did the coup and shot the pro-reintegration Texan President, then when a good portion of the populace rebelled against the mutineer government, the NCR and their allies came in to put them down.
This is going to be a feeling of "These Californians interfered with our original legitimate government, invaded our soil, and wish to turn us into a banana republic, destroyed our heritage sites, all while claiming to give a crap about our right to self-determination." Because at the end of the day they pulled the trigger and can be argued that they started the conflict in the first place.
As for the Enclave planning this scenario out... hard to tell when they appeared to have been taken off-guard by the assault in general, since they were expecting to fight at Dallas.
Last edited:
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
To build on Crows point if you as a state put out unceasing propaganda about how your enemy is a soulless monstrosity, basically for decades at this point, if you want any credibility some part of that has to be true. The problem is that any moderately well traveled Texan or relative of the same knows it is all bullshit. As such the idea has already been planted that the NCR in any situation about the US will be the ones lying. That is a priceless advantage in any propaganda campaign.
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
Looking real neat. Given the abomination that was the Fallout 4 tank it seems both the NCR and BOS have managed to get proper design principles into production. Sadly for the NCR it seems their technology limitations are really biting them here with the M2 stuck with a conventional cannon, not good when you need to kill a US tank on the first shot. Both the M2 and M3 also appear to lack a RWS which is real problem when your crew needs to stay buttoned up. I think the Caliburn has a seriously powerful gauss cannon based on the picture, giving it long range indirect fire and armor penetration capabilities.
Navarro
Well-known member
I literally don't understand the FO4 tank. Those weird quad-treads and the double cannon, plus the engine blocking the turret from doing a 360-degree rotation ... it sucks ass. Just making it a regular M60 Patton would have been way more reasonable than what we got.
Heh. The NCR tank is the chassis of a Patton with the turret of a Soviet T-72, the German one is a Leopard 1 with a MBT-70 turret (painted up in Kaiserreich colours) and the Caliburn is a Leclerc with the turret of an Armata. I wanted designs that looked unique and not just actual RL tanks whereas E-US largely uses RL American designs w/ a touch of scifi flare.
Two conventional cannons.
True. But the M3 is largely just a stopgap for the NCR until they bring their M4 Deathclaws into production.
You'll see it in the Great Plains theatre, which will have a lot of armoured warfare for the next few years. The Caliburn also doubles as the BOS' main SP-art system BTW.
Navarro
Well-known member
It's really a return to the operational role of heavy armoured infantry - e.g. the Roman legions which dominated the ancient battlefield. With the addition of mechanised and aerial transport (as well as the lack of encumbrance PA gives), they even solve the old problem of heavy infantry being unable to properly screen or scout.
Though it's not a complete return to the pre-20th century paradigm, since artillery and armoured vehicles still make dense formations simply just big targets. Another advantage of PA is that you no longer have to relegate your heavy firepower to a designated weapons team - one man can carry both a heavy weapon and the ammo for it, which allows firepower to be dispersed a lot more through the ranks.
But a preponderance of Powered Infantry is just one of the secrets to the E-US military's success. The others are a comprehensive maneuver/shock doctrine, genuine development of auftragstaktik during the hard years, an institutional military history longer than everybody else, effective vehicular development and doctrine, and a willingness to exhibit controlled brutality on a higher level - see use of mini-nukes, chemical weapons etc. And everyone else's varying degrees of tech-regression of course. But an E-US division, regiment, battalion, platoon, or squad would still wreck any equivalent modern force. No contest (a Brotherhood one would do similarly and an NCR one would have a 75% or so chance of beating modern counterparts).
Shame its bullets will just bounce off American duraframe.
Kioras
Active member
When I look at it, it is better to consider it a tank destroyer then an actual tank. Bigger engine, limited turret, extra treads.
Maybe it was a salvaged Nork vehicle.
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
My personal theory is that instead of going through the trouble of making their tank model they just gave an intern a sticky note with "tank, dieselpunk?" scrawled on it.
Jarow
Well-known member
Given energy weapons, it's possible to come up with a reason a double barrel could make sense, though having a bigger single barrel would probably still make more sense. The other parts though... no excuses there.
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
I knew my Soviet tank nerd sense was going off for some reason. For their sake I hope they embraced the auto-loader or have a booming dwarf population.
Navarro
Well-known member
But then why would salvaged Nork vehicles be in military bases in CONUS?
ForeverShogo
Well-known member
Well, in real life one of the big issues of using two cannons instead of just the one is that there's less room for the tank crew. Not just the space taken up by the cannons, but by their loading mechanisms and their ammo. You also have the issue that the cannons are going to be off center with your sights. Oh, and going back to how much room you have . . . You have two weaker cannons when you could have a single stronger cannon that still takes up less space. Which means you're fielding a tank less able to penetrate enemy armor. Which we actually saw in the chapter where NCR tanks were failing to penetrate the armor of US tanks.
You mostly want multi-barrel weapons when accurate fire would be difficult to achieve. Hence the prevalence in naval warfare, or in a lot of anti-aircraft gun designs, before we started going hard on missiles.
Energy weapons would help to mitigate things somewhat. There's not really ammo to take up space for one thing. Though in its own way there's still less armor penetration. With alternating fire there's less energy per shot if your aim is a more rapid firing rate. Even if you wait for a full charge and fire both guns simultaneously, the energy is being split between the two shots so it's still functionally two half power shots compared to a full power shot from a single gun.
Like, it's fine if you're fighting someone and you can guarantee that you'll penetrate every single time. But if you can't and they can? You're going to have a bad time.
You mostly want multi-barrel weapons when accurate fire would be difficult to achieve. Hence the prevalence in naval warfare, or in a lot of anti-aircraft gun designs, before we started going hard on missiles.
Energy weapons would help to mitigate things somewhat. There's not really ammo to take up space for one thing. Though in its own way there's still less armor penetration. With alternating fire there's less energy per shot if your aim is a more rapid firing rate. Even if you wait for a full charge and fire both guns simultaneously, the energy is being split between the two shots so it's still functionally two half power shots compared to a full power shot from a single gun.
Like, it's fine if you're fighting someone and you can guarantee that you'll penetrate every single time. But if you can't and they can? You're going to have a bad time.
Aaron Fox
Well-known member
Also note that these tanks were fighting the Chinese at the time, whose vehicular arsenal was largely paperweights due to lack of oil supplies. The two guns are less anti-tank guns and more infantry support guns. Probably repurposed howitzers. Add more infantry support options for extended range engagements (the missile/rocket pods)...
Also, this isn't the first time that twin guns had been done as an actual vehicle, Germany during the Cold War (specifically, the late 1970s) had a prototype pair of tanks with twin anti-tank cannons in a similar configuration, the VTs to be specific.
Also, this isn't the first time that twin guns had been done as an actual vehicle, Germany during the Cold War (specifically, the late 1970s) had a prototype pair of tanks with twin anti-tank cannons in a similar configuration, the VTs to be specific.
Navarro
Well-known member
Oh, the NCR plays the propaganda game too (and not just stuff that's based on their misconceptions). You'll see some of that (based on, as you pointed out, the conception of the USA as a hegemonic and homogenising blob which is far from completely untrue).
Plus, there's ambiguity about who precisely was behind the destruction to an outside observer. The fog of war is a major thing. Who's to tell that the Alamo wasn't deliberately rigged to blow as an act of spite?
It's to be noted that the Texan Civil War which lit the powderkeg started as an internal political dispute, and there's been an ongoing year of civil war. This tends to harden mindsets. People who were previously lukewarm as to an alliance with the NCR, or reintegration into the USA, are now more pro-NCR/USA than they would have been. That doesn't mean they'll be completely set in their ways, but it will make sudden military betrayals less likely (plus, it's kind of a one-trick pony so far as plot devices go). Those who would easily defect to the E-US military forces by and large have already defected by February 2232.
Last edited:
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
You know considering the partially justified paranoia of the US towards the president I half expected Marine and Airforce One to be fusion powered armored bricks. More like a Fallout-brand Thunderhawk really.Ch. 26 trundling along, took some time to do this while writing it:
