Fallout The Eagle And The Bear [Fallout AU]
- Thread starter Navarro
- Start date
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
They could be tamed
AspblastUSA
Well-known member
Depends on how well any given pack reacclimitizes to being around humans, I would imagine. The Metro Riding Dogs of Moscow seem to do alright for themselves, for instance.
High Lord Rokland
Active member
And then what? How will you take care of that many feral dogs? I could see some being tamed and becoming pets or work animals, but most would be treated like wolves. As in killed off overtime as human settlements expand.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
That’s kinda sad, I don’t like being licked by dogs or them trying to stand on me, but I like em
High Lord Rokland
Active member
Yeah, poor doggos...
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Yeah, course I think Enclave scientists got their DNA in order to make labgrown versions without disease or defects
I’m betting though that some dog breeds already went extinct
Like really inbred pugs
The Real Lee
Member
No more pugs...
Floridaman
Well-known member
This man speaks the truth.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Last I checked, they’re still waiting for an update
Floridaman
Well-known member
The dogs, or something else? because as a Floridian we were never able to figure out which port was used to send updates.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Responded to your other post, I meant the guys on SB are still waiting for the update
Navarro
Well-known member
I mean, the former quite obviously leads to the latter. While I wouldn't say the Legion had a non-existent industrial base in FNV, it's obviously weaker than the NCR's.
Navarro
Well-known member
Next chapter preview:
==*==
EST 17:30, October 23 2331
New York City, New York State, East Coast Commonwealth, USA
John Ellis looked out across the city of New York from his apartment, the sprawling vista of newly-built skyscrapers in a mix of art deco and nouveau styles mixed with stone-and-concrete apartment buildings that were a lot less flashy. Ten years he’d started living here, amongst what was now the largest city on the continent – a million people, but even that was only a sixteenth of what the city’s population had been pre-War (ignoring its vast suburbs, now largely reclaimed by nature). He’d been inserted in as an NCR agent – under the pretense of being a Texan runaway immigrating to Enclave territory in search of a better life. It hadn’t been long before he’d met Alicia – the young woman who’d stolen his heart and captured his soul.
He looked at their wedding photo – her belly was starting to show. Their torrid affair had run its rapid course. one thing had led to another, and she had gotten pregnant by him. When she demanded he take responsibility he had been too honourable by half and conceded – only to learn shortly after their child had been born that she had been an FBI counter-intelligence agent, sent to seduce him. A laser pistol just shy of being cocked at his head, he’d accepted their demands to turn double agent on the NCR.
And now he was living here, a reporter for a privately-owned newspaper – and head of a major spy ring operating on the East Coast. None of which worked for the NCR any more. He had helped the FBI turn every NCR agent sent to work under him. Some were bribed, others blackmailed, seduced, or outright threatened. Those who he’d identified as the most unlikely to turn coat were black-bagged and sent to the Panopticon Building in DC. They went out a few days later, zealousness for the NCR cause transformed into its counterpart for the (Enclave? American? He wasn’t sure) cause.
“You got the story finished up honey?” his wife asked, heading into their apartment, back just yesterday from a long conference of some sort or another at DC. They had three kids and another on the way – he had been promised enough money to buy a proper house (where he could retire from his unofficial job in peace) by her and his other handlers if he kept working "honestly" for just a little while longer. Otherwise … he would be found guilty of the next capital crime committed under Federal Law and hanged by the neck until dead from the public gallows at Central Park. The FBI liked to keep things above-the-board, after all.
She wasn’t asking about work either – at least not his official work. No, it was the reports he regularly sent to his NCR handlers back at Shady Sands.
“It’s good and polished, Alice,” he said, remembering the latest one, that he'd sent via radio just 5 minutes ago. Tin cans covered loud fish in batter, it went, 5 deathclaws went missing. Nonsense, but what it meant was simple: “Enclave soldiers deployed nerve gas against dockworkers speaking out against war. 5,000 dead.”
A fabrication, of the sort his handlers in DC regularly asked him to make. When it came to civilian life, they wanted grandiose atrocity stories to come back to the NCR. Massacres, over-the-top public executions, slave labour conditions in factories and farms… all of it he’d talked about in his reports, and all of it was fake. The other members of the spy ring he led were given similar orders, he’d heard. But why? Why did the men in the Panopticon want the NCR to know this, and not the truth – that life was generally peaceful, even if opposing the government meant professional ruin for those unfortunate enough to make it plain?
He’d seen it – those few individuals he’d met who’d spoken positively of the NCR or Brotherhood of Steel tended to have their homes ransacked by FBI agents, and to be rendered unemployable – explicitly in the case of any local or higher government positions, and unofficially by most companies.
It must be to try and intimidate … them, he mused. He was thinking of the NCR – where he’d spent he’d childhood – as them more and more often recently. It worried him. But then, the propaganda was so pervasive … he’d seen comic-book and pulp magazine stores where NCR mad scientists and special-forces infiltrators were invariably concocting diabolical plots, recruitment posters exhorting the viewer to “Remember the Fallen of Navarro!”, the summer fairs where children – even his own son – eagerly played shooting-gallery games urging them to “Put down the Californian Rebellion!”.
At any rate, he desperately reminded himself, I’ve betrayed the NCR. I’ve betrayed their agents. If they win, I’ll hang as a traitor.
He sighed. Without doing anything, FBI Counterintelligence had tied him even more tightly to the Enclave. It was harder and harder every day not to just give up and defect for real.
==*==
EST 17:30, October 23 2331
New York City, New York State, East Coast Commonwealth, USA
John Ellis looked out across the city of New York from his apartment, the sprawling vista of newly-built skyscrapers in a mix of art deco and nouveau styles mixed with stone-and-concrete apartment buildings that were a lot less flashy. Ten years he’d started living here, amongst what was now the largest city on the continent – a million people, but even that was only a sixteenth of what the city’s population had been pre-War (ignoring its vast suburbs, now largely reclaimed by nature). He’d been inserted in as an NCR agent – under the pretense of being a Texan runaway immigrating to Enclave territory in search of a better life. It hadn’t been long before he’d met Alicia – the young woman who’d stolen his heart and captured his soul.
He looked at their wedding photo – her belly was starting to show. Their torrid affair had run its rapid course. one thing had led to another, and she had gotten pregnant by him. When she demanded he take responsibility he had been too honourable by half and conceded – only to learn shortly after their child had been born that she had been an FBI counter-intelligence agent, sent to seduce him. A laser pistol just shy of being cocked at his head, he’d accepted their demands to turn double agent on the NCR.
And now he was living here, a reporter for a privately-owned newspaper – and head of a major spy ring operating on the East Coast. None of which worked for the NCR any more. He had helped the FBI turn every NCR agent sent to work under him. Some were bribed, others blackmailed, seduced, or outright threatened. Those who he’d identified as the most unlikely to turn coat were black-bagged and sent to the Panopticon Building in DC. They went out a few days later, zealousness for the NCR cause transformed into its counterpart for the (Enclave? American? He wasn’t sure) cause.
“You got the story finished up honey?” his wife asked, heading into their apartment, back just yesterday from a long conference of some sort or another at DC. They had three kids and another on the way – he had been promised enough money to buy a proper house (where he could retire from his unofficial job in peace) by her and his other handlers if he kept working "honestly" for just a little while longer. Otherwise … he would be found guilty of the next capital crime committed under Federal Law and hanged by the neck until dead from the public gallows at Central Park. The FBI liked to keep things above-the-board, after all.
She wasn’t asking about work either – at least not his official work. No, it was the reports he regularly sent to his NCR handlers back at Shady Sands.
“It’s good and polished, Alice,” he said, remembering the latest one, that he'd sent via radio just 5 minutes ago. Tin cans covered loud fish in batter, it went, 5 deathclaws went missing. Nonsense, but what it meant was simple: “Enclave soldiers deployed nerve gas against dockworkers speaking out against war. 5,000 dead.”
A fabrication, of the sort his handlers in DC regularly asked him to make. When it came to civilian life, they wanted grandiose atrocity stories to come back to the NCR. Massacres, over-the-top public executions, slave labour conditions in factories and farms… all of it he’d talked about in his reports, and all of it was fake. The other members of the spy ring he led were given similar orders, he’d heard. But why? Why did the men in the Panopticon want the NCR to know this, and not the truth – that life was generally peaceful, even if opposing the government meant professional ruin for those unfortunate enough to make it plain?
He’d seen it – those few individuals he’d met who’d spoken positively of the NCR or Brotherhood of Steel tended to have their homes ransacked by FBI agents, and to be rendered unemployable – explicitly in the case of any local or higher government positions, and unofficially by most companies.
It must be to try and intimidate … them, he mused. He was thinking of the NCR – where he’d spent he’d childhood – as them more and more often recently. It worried him. But then, the propaganda was so pervasive … he’d seen comic-book and pulp magazine stores where NCR mad scientists and special-forces infiltrators were invariably concocting diabolical plots, recruitment posters exhorting the viewer to “Remember the Fallen of Navarro!”, the summer fairs where children – even his own son – eagerly played shooting-gallery games urging them to “Put down the Californian Rebellion!”.
At any rate, he desperately reminded himself, I’ve betrayed the NCR. I’ve betrayed their agents. If they win, I’ll hang as a traitor.
He sighed. Without doing anything, FBI Counterintelligence had tied him even more tightly to the Enclave. It was harder and harder every day not to just give up and defect for real.
Last edited:
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
The old tried and true honeypot trap, the USSR would be proud. Nicely explains why the NCR high command has no idea how had things are if most of the spy rings are comprised. Also it appears the US has the old mental rewriting technology. I am a bit surprised they managed to get everyone but the NCR is new at this and Arrayo spies probably stand out. Shows the importance of a varied information sources I guess.
Navarro
Well-known member
Ironically, they think things are far, far worse than they are. The stuff they know about USA military stuff is a lot more accurate than their information on civilian matters.
I won't spoiler it, but I will tell you that it's worse than that. You'll know precisely how bad after the Chicago campaign.
SuperHeavy
Well-known member
Well that's making me think of the old brain replacement technology. Man the Pre-War US had so many ethical pitfalls I'm surprised the continent didn't sink into the sea.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Hopefully, current E-USA doesn’t have loads of Enclave Politicians&Businessmen with scandals like being pedophiles and pedarasts or cheating on their wives with ladies their daughters’ age and having illegitimate kids through them
That’s mostly a result of depravity
ForeverShogo
Well-known member
So apparently the Legion's way of doing things, with their Recruit, Prime, Veteran divide, is inspired by the Marian Reforms. Or, to be more accurate, what the Roman Legion was like before the Marian Reforms.
=================
To join the Roman military, you had to be part of the 5th census class or higher, you had to own property worth at least 3500 sesterces, and you had to supply your own equipment.
At the bottom were the Velites. Those who could only afford slings or javelins. They were the first in battle, throwing javelins to distract the enemy while the proper infantry advanced.
After that you had Hastati. People who could afford basic armor, a small shield, and a sword. They were expected to hold the front line, especially in the center. They suffered the heaviest casualties, but if they performed well and managed to survive they'd get bumped up to the next level.
Next were the Principes. They could afford high quality armor, a large shield, a helmet, and a sword. They were the core of Pre-Marian Legions, and were closest to what would later be considered the standard for Legionaries. The Principes waited behind the Hastati, only moving in if the Hastati could not overcome an enemy on their own. Letting enemies tire themselves out with the Hastati before sending in the Principes was a strategy that usually worked out pretty well for Rome.
Above them were the Triarii. Only experienced veterans of the Principes could become a Triarii. They were kept in the rear as the "anchor" of the formation. They were considered elite infantry that were only to be used if both the Hastati and the Principes failed. Basically, if a battle was going poorly these were the guys sent in as a last attempt to salvage the situation.
And at the very top were the Equites. Only those rich enough to own a horse could be part of the Equites. They served as light cavalry meant to break up skirmishers and missile units. They were also used for reconnaissance.
=================
Marian's reforms allowed even the landless to become Legionaries, and since they could not be expected to pay for their own equipment his reforms also had Rome pay to equip them instead. This was really popular because military service was one of the few ways for less well off people to become wealthy. (Spoils of war.)
It also established for Rome a standing army that could drill and train all year round, and standardized their training. Where before Rome relied on hastily raised citizen armies that had to be trained on the spot and were raw.
A downside to these reforms was that the spoils of war became a financial incentive that made Legionaries more loyal to their generals than to Rome. This led to a lot of corruption among the generals and even civil wars, ultimately causing the collapse of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire.
=================
It looks like Caesar's Legion merged the Velites and the Hestati, and since horses are supposed to be extinct in Fallout, or at least Fallout America, they obviously wouldn't have Equites.
It also looks like the bit where Legionaries are just as much slaves as they are soldiers, and the cult of personality he fosters, are his ways of getting around the problems created by people using the spoils of war for financial success.
So to an extent his Legion follows the Marian Reforms that led into the rise of the Roman Empire, with some adjustments. Like, his Legionaries do get equipment provided for them by the Legion itself. But at the same time, they're still paying for their own equipment. It's just instead of money they're paying in blood.
If you fight and you win you will earn the right to better equipment.
=================
I'm going to lean in the direction that if Caesar had won and been able to establish his Nova Roma, transitioning from a nomadic army to a functioning state, one of the first things he would have done is stop forcing his soldiers to "earn" good equipment.
So I think the Legion could afford to do so. It just chooses not to because of that survival of the fittest bullshit.
=================
To join the Roman military, you had to be part of the 5th census class or higher, you had to own property worth at least 3500 sesterces, and you had to supply your own equipment.
At the bottom were the Velites. Those who could only afford slings or javelins. They were the first in battle, throwing javelins to distract the enemy while the proper infantry advanced.
After that you had Hastati. People who could afford basic armor, a small shield, and a sword. They were expected to hold the front line, especially in the center. They suffered the heaviest casualties, but if they performed well and managed to survive they'd get bumped up to the next level.
Next were the Principes. They could afford high quality armor, a large shield, a helmet, and a sword. They were the core of Pre-Marian Legions, and were closest to what would later be considered the standard for Legionaries. The Principes waited behind the Hastati, only moving in if the Hastati could not overcome an enemy on their own. Letting enemies tire themselves out with the Hastati before sending in the Principes was a strategy that usually worked out pretty well for Rome.
Above them were the Triarii. Only experienced veterans of the Principes could become a Triarii. They were kept in the rear as the "anchor" of the formation. They were considered elite infantry that were only to be used if both the Hastati and the Principes failed. Basically, if a battle was going poorly these were the guys sent in as a last attempt to salvage the situation.
And at the very top were the Equites. Only those rich enough to own a horse could be part of the Equites. They served as light cavalry meant to break up skirmishers and missile units. They were also used for reconnaissance.
=================
Marian's reforms allowed even the landless to become Legionaries, and since they could not be expected to pay for their own equipment his reforms also had Rome pay to equip them instead. This was really popular because military service was one of the few ways for less well off people to become wealthy. (Spoils of war.)
It also established for Rome a standing army that could drill and train all year round, and standardized their training. Where before Rome relied on hastily raised citizen armies that had to be trained on the spot and were raw.
A downside to these reforms was that the spoils of war became a financial incentive that made Legionaries more loyal to their generals than to Rome. This led to a lot of corruption among the generals and even civil wars, ultimately causing the collapse of the Roman Republic and the rise of the Roman Empire.
=================
It looks like Caesar's Legion merged the Velites and the Hestati, and since horses are supposed to be extinct in Fallout, or at least Fallout America, they obviously wouldn't have Equites.
It also looks like the bit where Legionaries are just as much slaves as they are soldiers, and the cult of personality he fosters, are his ways of getting around the problems created by people using the spoils of war for financial success.
So to an extent his Legion follows the Marian Reforms that led into the rise of the Roman Empire, with some adjustments. Like, his Legionaries do get equipment provided for them by the Legion itself. But at the same time, they're still paying for their own equipment. It's just instead of money they're paying in blood.
If you fight and you win you will earn the right to better equipment.
=================
I'm going to lean in the direction that if Caesar had won and been able to establish his Nova Roma, transitioning from a nomadic army to a functioning state, one of the first things he would have done is stop forcing his soldiers to "earn" good equipment.
So I think the Legion could afford to do so. It just chooses not to because of that survival of the fittest bullshit.