Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
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AspblastUSA
Well-known member
That reads like someone came up with Bananakin but couldn’t think of a good setup for it to me.
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
I guess, though I’m really not sure how else they’d use “Bananakin”… well, other than a meme that “adapts” the scene where Mace has Palpatine cornered, leaving Anakin torn between loyalty to the Order and saving Padme.
In which case, I suppose you’d get Palpatine begging “Don’t let him peel me!”, and screaming “Yellow! Unlimited yellow!” when blasting Windu with a barrage of banana peelers. All in all, a really dumb meme idea that makes me laugh on the inside, ’cuz reasons.
I think there are a few shakey points there. For example, you cite the fanous EU conversation about Imperial over use of superweapons, but then also speculate that by the time the invasion stated, underlying design flaws in the star destroy design would come to light and the Vong would have the edge ship to ship. To my knowledge, that never actually happened. Star Destroyers were established as being inefficient designs compared to something like a Republic Nebula Class, yes, but the rebels never found a "shoot here and blow up the whole ship" type flaw, Star Destroyers always worked just fine and held their own in fights.
Even the superweapon point is a bit off as well, because I think it misunderstands what the empire was doing. Imperial doctrine (at least Tarkin era doctrine) wasn't about controlling the galaxy with superweapons, it was about controlling the galaxy with fear, specifically the fear of any resistance being crushed by overwhelming force. And they regularly proved that they could in fact respond with that kind of firepower in or to make that threat credible and those fears well founded.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
My point isn't that there's a magical "shoot here and blow up the whole ship" type flaw, but more that (deliberately!) byzantine bureaucracies like those of the Empire lead to shitty outcomes. Like guidance systems designed by that total hack who is crony of the Director of Naval Appropriations, and who has it done on the cheap by corrupt incompetents -- rather than having them designed by someone who ought to be doing it.
Russia's "performance" in the Ukraine war right now should serve as an indication of how the Empire would do in a real war. Their gear would be ill-maintained, loads of their supplies would only exist on paper (having been illegally sold on the black mrket by corrupt officials), morale would be shit, and there would be constant looting and raping, turning the entire populace against the Empire and in favour of anyone else.
This reveals the underlying problem. The Empire is entirely geared towards oppressing the populace. That's not at all the same as defeating a real enemy. In fact, historically speaking, military (or militarised) forces good at one of those two things have typically been shit at doing the other one.
Sure -- in specific contexts, fear can be used as a tool. Genghis Khan was brutal to those who resisted, so that others would not resist. But those who didn't resist were generally treated well. In fact, his reign was often an improvement for many people, because he had a habit of killing corrupt officials. Now compare that to the Empire, which not was not just seemingly but in fact literally designed to make everybody as unhappy as possible. Fear can be used when it's the stick. But you need the carrot, too. The Empire was just the stick, relentlessly. And the Tarkin Doctrine (which was retarded) examplified that.
Tarkin was basically one of those morons who selectively quote Machiavelli, and miss his point completely.
Not an apt comparison at all.
Russia is a 2nd Tier state with very limited resources and production.
The Empire is THE Galactic power with virtually unlimited resources and production capacity. It's flagship, the Star Destroyer, may not be the most efficiently powerful vessel in its class, but it doesn't have to be. There are thousands of them alongside all the attendant, lesser vessels the Empire fields. The Empire has built enough TIE fighters that you could line them up, wingtip to wingtip, and probably walk from Earth to the Moon.
The Empire's ships are fielded fully supplied with Regiments of troops on each one. The only ones that ever really needed to worry about supply were the ones on extended ops to the Unexplored Regions, "Hi Thrawn!".
All of these things are canonically factual. Your supposition that one 'empire' has to resemble another is patently false.
Edit to address the rampant rape you think must happen: Not true in canon either. The core planets were seen a safe and orderly places to live by the average sentient because of the Empire.
Ok, but in the actual EU my understanding is that didn't happen. That was my issue with the superweapons thing, where you bring in EU stuff for one point, but then step beyond the EU and make claims that don't bear out. If Imperial gear was often badly made or poorly designed, that should have come up in canon.
Yes and no. The Empire was designed to rule through the fear of overwhelming force, fear inspired by its military that was designed to meet any challenge with overwhelming force. That's why people will argue that a Nebula or Venator would beat a Imperial class SD in a fight, because they're designed to fight wars against peer enemies the SD isn't.
But the Empire still has a military designed to respond to any challenge with overwhelming force and that has to be addressed. The fact that there are better responses to a threat doesn't mean the imperial solution isn't viable.
Thing is, they wont be able to respond with Overwhelming force against uprisings because the Vong are here. Once the boot is lifted off just a little, the Rebellion will rise with a fury and align with the vong? Is this Bad? Well, No, because Palpatine is a evil space wizard who wishes to become a dark god with the entire population of the galaxy as his meat puppets. You can make a argument that Vong slavery is just as bad, you cant make an argument that it is worse than that...
The empire has 25,000 ISDs, I'm sure they can spare a few thousand to keep the rebels busy while the rest are blowing up the Vong.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Not to mention the New Republic wasn't even all that effective against the Vong. If it wasn't for the Jedi, the Vong would have just steamrolled the New Republic instead of having to fight a bloody slog all the way to Coruscant. In fact, the Vong did the galaxy a favor by discrediting the new generation of politicians that had replaced the Alliance Old Guard over the years preceding the invasion, and giving the new Galactic Federation proper leadership by putting that Old Guard back in power.
"The New Republic? Are you blind? There is no New Republic! It died before the Yuuzhan Vong came!"
- Leia Organa-Solo, 27 ABY
At the end of it all, the New Republic was just as bureaucratic and corruption-ridden as the Galactic Empire was.
"The New Republic? Are you blind? There is no New Republic! It died before the Yuuzhan Vong came!"
- Leia Organa-Solo, 27 ABY
At the end of it all, the New Republic was just as bureaucratic and corruption-ridden as the Galactic Empire was.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
The Empire at least had a truly formidable war machine and the industry to keep it running.
And the Empire would have unhesitantly done the things the NR were scared to do until the war was in full swing.
Neutron bombs and similar radiation weapons would have decimated the Vong.
Sun Crusher to destroy systems that had fallen, vaporizing entire fleets.
And even Luke Skywalker regretted the destruction of the Galaxy Gun during the war. The projectiles were also nuclear/radiation weapons by nature, making them twice as effective against the Vong.
"At the time, the Galaxy Gun was the most destructive weapon we'd ever seen. But I wish we had it now. We could blast those Yuuzhan Vong worldships right out of the sky."
-Luke Skywalker
Bassoe
Well-known member
Is this going to become a thing? What if Anakin had fallen for various characters instead of Padme?
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
I don't know, I just thought it looked interesting. Will say I can't help but think in any case he would have been better off.
ShadowsOfParadox
Well-known member
Gonna be honest here... the Yuuzhan Vong War is one of those bits of the EU I tend to consider terribad and ill considered.
True, the authors talked with each other.
True, the authors were, outside the Yuuzhan Vong War, some of the better ones working with the EU.
But, too many cooks ruin the soup and the Yuuzhan Vong War is probably the exemplifying example of that as a self contained series in the EU.
Just consider the times they killed people "for tension" and then realized "oh shit, we actually needed that guy..."
Never mind the constant flip flopping on the Yuuzhan Vong and the Force and just, stuff in general.
Like, sure, they talked, they had rules... they also made a too long, too convoluted story with too many twists and turns and far far too little care with character deaths.
But also, let's be real here, the Empire's entire arsenal was perfectly designed to crumble when the Vong showed up. Literally everything they did was the worst possible thing to do before the Vong. Entirely ignoring questions of "how much eco would there even be?" and "who the heck would even be willing to fight by now?" and "how many Imperial Officials would be entirely willing, even eager, to switch masters?" the military, at it's peak, was perfectly countered by what the Vong brought to bear.
Also, anyone claiming Radiation Weapons would work so great against the Vong, including the authors of the books, why though? Radiation is one of the slowest and least reliable killers in existence. Sure, give them rad poisoning, they'll die in 20 years maybe I guess.
You know those islands we nuked? The rats were back and better than before in weeks!
True, the authors talked with each other.
True, the authors were, outside the Yuuzhan Vong War, some of the better ones working with the EU.
But, too many cooks ruin the soup and the Yuuzhan Vong War is probably the exemplifying example of that as a self contained series in the EU.
Just consider the times they killed people "for tension" and then realized "oh shit, we actually needed that guy..."
Never mind the constant flip flopping on the Yuuzhan Vong and the Force and just, stuff in general.
Like, sure, they talked, they had rules... they also made a too long, too convoluted story with too many twists and turns and far far too little care with character deaths.
But also, let's be real here, the Empire's entire arsenal was perfectly designed to crumble when the Vong showed up. Literally everything they did was the worst possible thing to do before the Vong. Entirely ignoring questions of "how much eco would there even be?" and "who the heck would even be willing to fight by now?" and "how many Imperial Officials would be entirely willing, even eager, to switch masters?" the military, at it's peak, was perfectly countered by what the Vong brought to bear.
Also, anyone claiming Radiation Weapons would work so great against the Vong, including the authors of the books, why though? Radiation is one of the slowest and least reliable killers in existence. Sure, give them rad poisoning, they'll die in 20 years maybe I guess.
You know those islands we nuked? The rats were back and better than before in weeks!
Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
stephen the barbarian
Well-known member
ec henry is back, and talking about why st ships look so good.
I got to say, one of my real beef's with the new canon is how it changed Wedge's backstory 180 degrees.
His Legend's backstory was a lot cooler than what we saw in Rebels, where he was an Imperial pilot recruit who defects with Sabine's help.
His Legend's backstory was a lot cooler than what we saw in Rebels, where he was an Imperial pilot recruit who defects with Sabine's help.