Russian Invasion of Ukraine 2022

[strunkenwhite]

To be fair that's Donbass forces, they are using anything they can get their hands on, as Russia didn't fully supply them before the war, to preserve the illusion of not being their puppetmaster. Not that anyone believed that one, but political theatre has it's own logic.

If Russia supplies its own troops this badly, think of how much the second-stringers got shortchanged.

 

[Marduk]

This indicates that Russia is now using extra expensive precision munitions (a cruise missile costs 10-20x as much as even a JDAM style guided bomb) to target... publicly known stationary facilities of mostly economic, rather than military significance, because unless the war is expected to last for at least few months more, there isn't time for much aircraft repairing to be done before it ends, considering the time it takes for modern military aircraft to be repaired even in peacetime, in fully functional, rich countries.
Or in other words, these are probably spite attacks. Not unlike WW2 V1 and V2 programs, or various middle eastern SRBM arsenal use, like Houthis flinging Scuds and Tochkas at Saudi oil infrastructure. That's what mighty Russia is reduced to.

 

[Agent23]

This indicates that Russia is now using extra expensive precision munitions (a cruise missile costs 10-20x as much as even a JDAM style guided bomb) to target... publicly known stationary facilities of mostly economic, rather than military significance, because unless the war is expected to last for at least few months more, there isn't time for much aircraft repairing to be done before it ends, considering the time it takes for modern military aircraft to be repaired even in peacetime, in fully functional, rich countries.
Or in other words, these are probably spite attacks. Not unlike WW2 V1 and V2 programs, or various middle eastern SRBM arsenal use, like Houthis flinging Scuds and Tochkas at Saudi oil infrastructure. That's what mighty Russia is reduced to.

Or the Ukies were being "clever" and putting military assets close to or within civilian objects, again.

 

[SchrodingersWehraboo]

 

[Marduk]

Or the Ukies were being "clever" and putting military assets close to or within civilian objects, again.

Why would they be hiding them next to expensive objects, rather than cheap and boring ones, or under a camo tarp next to a forest backroad?

 

[Agent23]

Why would they be hiding them next to expensive objects, rather than cheap and boring ones, or under a camo tarp next to a forest backroad?

At a guess, because they are aircraft or drones and might need runways and some maintenance.

 

[Marduk]

At a guess, because they are aircraft or drones and might need runways and some maintenance.

Any maintenance that needs this facility wouldn't be happening fast even without a war going on and impacting logistics.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Why does that tank have a large white flag? Is it surrendering?

 

[strunkenwhite]

so that you can call it a war crime after the russians blow it up.

The facility in question is without doubt a legitimate military target so this makes absolutely no sense. What Marduk is saying is that although it's a legitimate target, it doesn't make sense for Russia to actually go after it with expensive and limited types of weapons unless it expects the conflict to last a hell of a lot longer than, for example, Chiron does. It also doesn't make sense for Ukraine to essentially make a legitimate military target into a juicier legitimate military target.

Agent23's proposed explanation of driving the plane needing repairs up to the parts factory because it eliminates the need to transport the parts to the plane is ... also dumb. (this particular criticism discredited)

 

[Agent23]

Agent23's proposed explanation of driving the plane needing repairs up to the parts factory because it eliminates the need to transport the parts to the plane is ... also dumb.

It is stupid to repair aircraft in an aircraft repair facility...
Where should they repair them then, the Ghost of Kiev's KievGhost Cave?

Anyway, back to the subject, while modern aircraft might be hard to fix in field conditions and it might be risky, patching up drones might be viable.

Low-flying, cheap, off the shelf crap can probably be socketed in faster, also since they fly low and slow they are vulnerable to all sorts of stuff, like randos with AKs.

Frankly I think the facility was used for something more, and that the Ukis are doing their whole living shield thing.

Also, the Russians probably wanted to remind them that they are able to reach any point of Ukraine.

 

[prinCZess]

Would Russians just do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

You can't lie in here! This is the War Room College!

Why does that tank have a large white flag? Is it surrendering?

Could be some kind of local-to-the-area truce going on or getting organized by them, or maybe the Russians/Donbas are using it as a humanitarian corridor-clearer or transport? I think they could use the white flag if they're, say, directing a convoy of civilians through a retreat line.
<---Not an expert or even authority on the laws of war.

My question on the photo is what the blue tank is on top of the thing? It looks like an air compressor. And...My civvie ass is confused at why you'd have an air-compressor with you on a tread-driven thing? I guess it would ease in any repairs/replacing you had to do on the track's wheels or other various parts, but it seems out-of-place, especially in an active warzone-ish area. Seems like something you'd have on vehicles further back (which, I guess, this one could be since we're getting photos of it, so...mystery solved I guess, maybe).

EDIT: Looking closer, the white flag looks like it's just wrapped around the ball on top of a rear antenna on the civilian car that's in the front of the shot. Just a perspective-trick that makes it look like it's coming from the BT-whatever.

 

[strunkenwhite]

It is stupid to repair aircraft in an aircraft repair facility...

Perhaps I misunderstood the nature of the facility. "Plant" made me think it produces the necessary parts with which repairs will be done.

 

[Agent23]

Perhaps I misunderstood the nature of the facility. "Plant" made me think it produces the necessary parts with which repairs will be done.

Lviv State Aircraft Repair Plant

Lviv State Aircraft Repair Plant is aleading enterprise that is part of Ukroboronprom and that specializes in the repair of aircraft and military
"LSARP" offers the following services on the mutually beneficial conditions for the Customer:

• repairs of the aircraft MiG - 21, MiG - 23, MiG - 27 and MiG - 29, it's aggregates and equipment, including the works on renovation of overhaul service life and life time;
• repairs aggregates and airframe systems ;
• development and delivery of designing documents for the mastering of the repairs of aggregates and airframe systems ;
• training of the Customer's specialists in the technological processes of aviation equipment repairs, consulting in the repairs of aviation technigues using the Plants production base;
• the expert advice and research work at the Customers' enterprises to elaborate necessary recommendations during the process of new types aviation technigues mastering;
• specialists' visits to the Customers' enterprises for technical assistance in the mastering of new types aviation technigues repairs;
• producing and delivering of the non - standard technological equipment developed for aviation technigues repairs by Plants specialists;
• examination of Customers' aviation technigues state to determine it's capability of repairs;
• renting of the required technological equipment for Customer's aviation hardware repairs;
• assistance in adjusting the technological eguipment ( produced in the former USSR ) in accordance with Customer technical reguirements;
• assistance in acquisition of spare parts and stuff required for the aviation technigues repairs;
• consulting services in establishing contacts with the producers of aviation technigues and repairing agencies;
• services in designing and developing of maintenance site of " MiG " type aircraft engineering.

In Soviet Union Everything is called Factory, or plant.

Seriously, the commies had some weird ideas about naming things.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Lviv State Aircraft Repair Plant
In Soviet Union Everything is called Factory, or plant.
Seriously, the commies had some weird ideas about naming things.

I appreciate the correction, then. But I stand by the other point that it seems unlikely that hitting the repair plant with a weapon that's limited in number makes sense unless Russia expects the war to continue for a much, much longer time than its shills claim it will. Of course, it's hardly unbelievable that some Russian commander might have made a suboptimal decision.

And again, the "living shield" argument makes no sense whatsoever when the supposed human shield is a perfectly legitimate military target.

 

[Agent23]

I appreciate the correction, then. But I stand by the other point that it seems unlikely that hitting the repair plant with a weapon that's limited in number makes sense unless Russia expects the war to continue for a much, much longer time than its shills claim it will. Of course, it's hardly unbelievable that some Russian commander might have made a suboptimal decision.

And again, the "living shield" argument makes no sense whatsoever when the supposed human shield is a perfectly legitimate military target.

The airport is nearby, so collateral damage.
As I said, since the war started they might be using the place for all sorts of other purposes.
Also, since I doubt that Russia wants to take the whole of Ukraine, reducing the future warmaking potential of whatever is left might make sense.

Also, how do we know for a fact that what Marduk said about repairs duration and the like is the truth?

And what you are all missing is that such facilities might also have diagnostics equipment which might be used to check if Ukrainian plains are still flight-worthy.
Same goes for other MiGs that the Ukis might get, or the USA might manage to scrounge up for them.

 

[Marduk]

The facility in question is without doubt a legitimate military target so this makes absolutely no sense. What Marduk is saying is that although it's a legitimate target, it doesn't make sense for Russia to actually go after it with expensive and limited types of weapons unless it expects the conflict to last a hell of a lot longer than, for example, Chiron does. It also doesn't make sense for Ukraine to essentially make a legitimate military target into a juicier legitimate military target.

Yup, that's the point i'm making, its either a purely spiteful attack meant to cause economic damage for after the war (good luck if forced to pay reparations though) while there is little to no expectation for the place to become owned by a puppet\own government in the future, or Russia has only now (rather than hitting it 2 weeks ago) reevaluated things and expects to be in for the long haul, which is how the plant would have time to do meaningful contributions to the Ukrainian war effort.

 

[Marduk]

It was a direct, yes or no question.

Its a direct "none of your bloody business on a public internet forum" answer.

What makes you competent to say that diagnostics and repair of military aircraft takes n amount of time, and that some lighter repairs and maintenance and airworthyness checks can not be done in several days to several weeks?

Such minor repairs are by definition not depot level maintenance. AKA don't need such facility. Considering that its the middle of a war and its location and purpose are publicly known, not a place where you would want to put what few mostly functional planes you have anyway, if their repairs can possibly be done anywhere else less obvious.

 

[Marduk]

Oh, really?
How many functional airfields do the Ukies have at the moment?

The Russians did hit them pretty hard and took out a lot of their airforce with the start of the campaign, they have taken out things like radar towers and the like ever since.
Maybe, just maybe, the civilian airport and/or that repair facility can be used as an impromptu base for military aircraft.

EDIT: back to my response to @strunkenwhite if you look into Zelensky and his cabinet/inner circle, well a lot of them are actors, screen writers, and other assorted entertainment busness people, aka just the type of media whores who delight in this type of theater.

Fuck functional airfields, you think no one ever thought of the problem of "in modern war everyone has cruise missiles, ballistic missiles and other fancy long range weapons like that, while everyone knows where airfields are, and some can even make photos from sats to see if there are precious, vulnerable warplanes there at the moment, what do"?

Viggens operating from improvised airstrips in the forest: Cold War in Sweden

In Sweden, almost any strip road is a runway that can be used by Swedish Air Force fighter planes. Here's an interesting video, shot during the last days

theaviationist.com

Video of an F/A-18 Hornet taking off from a public road

Finnish Hornets take off from roads as part of the training. The following video of Finnish Air Force F-18s departing from a public road was filmed during

theaviationist.com

https://www.unian.info/society/ukraine-drills-su-27-fighters-practice-landing-on-highway-11128109.html

Wonder why would they train doing that, certainly not to do it during a war...

 

[Chiron]

 

[Marduk]

Yeah, you also need flight crews, resupply depots, ground control, etc.

Or in other words, nothing that you couldn't put on a truck. Or few dozens of trucks.
You think the several mentioned airforces didn't think of that with their own improvised airstrip operations tactics?
The plane itself is the hardest necessary component to transport by land by far.

Do I need to fig up the photos of burned out and wrecked Ukrainian aircraft for you?

What kind of argument is that? Did you count that those add up to all Ukrainian aircraft?
Call me when you do, otherwise hangar queens getting scrapped is irrelevant.

Again, there are other potential explanations, like for example all of the pilots that underwent the highway take-off and landing training got killed already.

Statistically unlikely, other than a far reach to get your pet theories to make sense.
The fact that UAF still operates at all is most likely specifically thanks to use of more or less improvised field airstrips.