Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2

[Bacle]

Also, Zelensky gave the US Congress a direct warning about what will happen if they don't send more aid.



Ukraine won't stop fighting with what munitions it has and will keep hitting Russian strategic targets with UA native made drones, if the US won't send them weapons to defend themselves from Russia.

So however much US congresscritters might be afraid of 'escalation' with Russia, or just high oil prices with Russian products off the market, Ukraine is not going to stop hitting Russian oil infrastructure, air bases, and other strategic targets unless they have the means to protect themselves from Russian attacks.

With France and Poland talking about sending troops to help defend Ukraine, the US congress is now in a spot where it no longer has the main control over what limits on Russian domestic targets are off-limits, even if it wants to drag it's feet on US military aid that would help Ukraine defend itself from Russian attacks or take back it's land.

France, Poland, and their friends will not allow Ukraine to lose or Russia to win, that is clear now, so the US can either stop being stupid about aid to Ukraine, or just lose face and economic ties/advantage when Paris and Warsaw become more trusted internationally than DC.

And unlike with Russia, the CCP, Iran, or North Korea, France isn't a hostile power that we can use a 'rally around the flag' mentality against, nor some rogue nation we can sanction into the ground or isolate. France also doesn't have an issue with Ukraine possibly using French gear to hit Russian domestic targets, unlike the US.

So US isolationists cannot win, they can just make us look more foolish, and means when the Russians are pushed out of Ukraine, we just will lose economic and social cred to France's new alliance structure, not to Russia or the CCP, and DC will not learn any fucking lessons the isolationists want them to.

US isolationists need to shut up and get out of the way, before they end up run over by France's new/old martial attitude coming into play again and DC's inability to do shit about it.

 

[AmosTrask]

Looks like the French Commonwealth is rebuilding itself in new directions.

 

[Bacle]

Poland is suspending it's participation in the conventional arms treaty for Europe.

Now Poland can move it's troops where ever it wants, in whatever numbers it wants, without giving a damn about adhering to the limits of that treaty.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Poland is suspending it's participation in the conventional arms treaty for Europe.

Now Poland can move it's troops where ever it wants, in whatever numbers it wants, without giving a damn about adhering to the limits of that treaty.

Poland is preparing for war, and not a moment too soon.

Warsaw has an ancient score to settle with Moscow after all.

Edit: Also, France and Poland? The Napoleonic dream team is getting back together!

 

[Bacle]

Poland is preparing for war, and not a moment too soon.

Warsaw has an ancient score to settle with Moscow after all.

Most European capitals have a grudge with Moscow, and for good reasons.

It's just till recently Russia had enough oil money to placate a lot of the populace in Europe, and the Islamic terrorism threat was the biggest threat on the continent till 2014-2022.

This only really ends when Putin and those who want this war are removed form power in Russia, either by inside forces or outside intervention. Allowing Putin and his faction to remain in power would just be giving him or his successor time to rearm and try again.

Russia must be broken of it's imperial ambitions for the sake of the human species, not just Ukraine.

 

[strunkenwhite]

Ukraine won't stop fighting with what munitions it has and will keep hitting Russian strategic targets with UA native made drones, if the US won't send them weapons to defend themselves from Russia.

And I say this as someone who favors aid.

 

[prinCZess]

And I say this as someone who favors aid.

Honestly, even as someone much more skeptical of ongoing US aid, I think worthy of question is how long US pressure has been restricting Ukraine from doing the most obvious targeting of infrastructure in war for strategic advantage possible. Perhaps especially when they could/would contrast their own strikes of oil facilities with Russian strikes of random apartment blocks.

Like, I presume they lacked the capability at the beginning of the war and this is relatively recently that they both have the material and the lessened demand for 'frontline' drones/etc. that they can shoot hail-mary's, but I don't know. So how long have they been capable of it and been pressured into not doing it because US college grads with majors in international relations working at the State Dep't thought it was bad?

Because that stupidity being in charge of anything is bad regardless of what we do in regards to more aid to Ukraine. We don't want those people making decisions on other topics, and we don't want them influencing aid packages, either.

 

[mrttao]

Honestly, even as someone much more skeptical of ongoing US aid, I think worthy of question is how long US pressure has been restricting Ukraine from doing the most obvious targeting of infrastructure in war for strategic advantage possible.

Ukraine has been targeting infrastructure. They have been bombing oil refineries. this was literally posted repeatedly.
Also, there is the obvious concern about retaliation in kind.

 

[Marduk]

Ukraine has been targeting infrastructure. They have been bombing oil refineries. this was literally posted repeatedly.
Also, there is the obvious concern about retaliation in kind.

Either Russia invented time travel or it is a concern for fucking retards because they did it a year ago already.

 

[AmosTrask]

Poland is suspending it's participation in the conventional arms treaty for Europe.

Now Poland can move it's troops where ever it wants, in whatever numbers it wants, without giving a damn about adhering to the limits of that treaty.

Huh. France, the former members of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, Ukraine and the UK. It may just work.

 

[prinCZess]

Either Russia invented time travel or it is a concern for fucking retards because they did it a year ago already.

The pace seems to have increased dramatically (especially from late last year).

Like, moment's-research, last year Ukraine struck roughly a half-dozen Russian refineries. Once with choppers, mostly with drones, and concentrated in the first six months of the year. Then there was a lull, and then in the last two months there's been as-many strikes it looks like (possibly more, this is headline-scanning moment's research and some articles noting how the drone campaign has picked-up pace). That's a dramatic increase, especially from the seeming lull it sat in for late-2023.

Obviously we've no idea how many actual attempts there've been, and maybe nature or battlefield demand is responsible for that lull (if it even happened), but there very much seems to be the potential that US pressure discouraged Ukrainian strikes. That's why it's a scandal worth reporting on, even?

 

[Marduk]

The pace seems to have increased dramatically (especially from late last year).

Like, moment's-research, last year Ukraine struck roughly a half-dozen Russian refineries. Once with choppers, mostly with drones, and concentrated in the first six months of the year. Then there was a lull, and then in the last two months there's been as-many strikes it looks like (possibly more, this is headline-scanning moment's research and some articles noting how the drone campaign has picked-up pace). That's a dramatic increase, especially from the seeming lull it sat in for late-2023.

Obviously we've no idea how many actual attempts there've been, and maybe nature or battlefield demand is responsible for that lull (if it even happened), but there very much seems to be the potential that US pressure discouraged Ukrainian strikes. That's why it's a scandal worth reporting on, even?

What i was pointing at is that Russia was targeting Ukrainian infrastructure since the first days of the war, notably with the focused attempt to destroy the power grid duting the 2022/2023 winter. There can't be an "escalation concern" that Russia will start targeting Ukrainian infrastructure if the have started that with the beginning of the war, unless someone has a bad case of dementia. Russia didn't cease that out of some sort of unspoken gentlemen's agreement, but due to limited effects despite depleting a large part of their missile stockpile, leading to Russia having to recently import Iranian and North Korean missiles, which is a bit humiliating, and i'm pretty sure the prices are well above the quality those replacement missiles represent.

 

[strunkenwhite]

there very much seems to be the potential that US pressure discouraged Ukrainian strikes.

I don't see reason to think there was any pressure being exerted on Ukraine against striking Russian oil infrastructure, except for the (I believe formerly) publicly stated part about not using US/NATO weaponry to strike Russia proper.

 

[mrttao]

did... did he just threaten the USA?

 

[Bacle]

did... did he just threaten the USA?

No, he told the US that Ukraine will use it's domestic drones to hit Russian strategic targets so long as the US Congress is delaying the aid Ukraine needs to protect itself from Russian attacks.

The implication is if the certain parts of the US Congress wants to keep Russian oil infrastructure intact, to keep oil prices cheap in an election year, due to the fixed amount of global refining capacity/throughput, then the US Congress the needs to give Ukraine the means to defend themselves from Russian attacks on Ukrainians.

 

[Cherico]

Poland is suspending it's participation in the conventional arms treaty for Europe.

Now Poland can move it's troops where ever it wants, in whatever numbers it wants, without giving a damn about adhering to the limits of that treaty.

can we give Kongsberg back to the poles?

 

[strunkenwhite]

can we give Kongsberg back to the poles?

Wouldn't it go to Germany?

 

[Zachowon]

Wouldn't it go to Germany?

They dint deserve it

 

[AmosTrask]

did... did he just threaten the USA?

No. He said they'll keep hitting Russia where it hurts. They aren't going to stop fighting Russia because politicians in the US care more about gas prices than Ukrainian lives. So kindly give us the weapons to defend ourselves against Russia or take your "Escalation Rhetoric" shove it up your arse and Fuck off!

 

[Marduk]

did... did he just threaten the USA?

Not really, specifically he threatened the Biden reelection campaign with slightly higher oil prices right before the election.