mrttao
Well-known member
I am not sure what you are trying to say here
Russia(gate/bot) Russia-Ukraine War Politics Thread Mk. 2
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
Anything western elites lie about, Russian ones also do, and then some extra on top of that.
Historical deja vu strikes again!
mrttao
Well-known member
ok? and?
They still ironically accidentally described the west without intending to.
Russia being "even more of these bad things" does not change that.
Russia and the west both manage to function with such corruption. it isn't nice, it isn't pleasant, but it trucks along.
No, i pretty clearly said that Russia takes it to a higher level.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
Various atrocities aside, Russia is not going to live this mess down for the next century. The Black Sea Fleet has been devastated by an enemy that didn’t really have a navy to speak of in the first place.
You could see it as a case of a delayed repo action. Most of the Black Sea Fleet was Ukrainian SSR which Russia stole when Ukraine declared independence. The Ukrainians just decided to scrap the ships than pay to modernize them. 🤪
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
No. If it's in your air-space without your permission, you can shoot it down if you want.
Yes but at the same time, they probably wanted to see if it was intentionally there to target Poland or Ukraine.
I see it as them not showing the capabilities of thier AD incase Russia tries more they arnt getting defeated
King Arts
Well-known member
No it would not give casus belli to shoot down a missle in your own airspace. If it was a manned airplane and you shot it down without warning it to get out of you airspace then yes.
Now you are right that shooting it down might be the wrong thing because then they will know how fast we can track them.
The reason there was no response is because the response time for something like this is too slow. You want political approval for stuff like instigating conflict like this, because responding is more of a political action than a military one. And because of the variety of things that could happen, no pre-approved orders were given.
Second, we don't care about providing Russia with a Causus Belli: Russia would never take it if offered. What's important is messaging. NATO wants to message that it is reasonable, so it accomplishes this by not retaliating. If situations were different, and NATO was weaker than Russia, then you want to be prickly instead, threatening a lot over a little, lest you lose like a frog in boiling water.
Basically, apex predators don't need to be poisonous or have hedgehog spikes, everyone knows that if you rouse them enough you are fucked, but it isn't worth there energy to reply to everything, as it's simply not threatening. But a hedgehog? It needs to react at every opportunity, or it's dead.
Second, we don't care about providing Russia with a Causus Belli: Russia would never take it if offered. What's important is messaging. NATO wants to message that it is reasonable, so it accomplishes this by not retaliating. If situations were different, and NATO was weaker than Russia, then you want to be prickly instead, threatening a lot over a little, lest you lose like a frog in boiling water.
Basically, apex predators don't need to be poisonous or have hedgehog spikes, everyone knows that if you rouse them enough you are fucked, but it isn't worth there energy to reply to everything, as it's simply not threatening. But a hedgehog? It needs to react at every opportunity, or it's dead.
Poe
Well-known member
Russia has never been a naval power and their enemies are backed by the greatest naval power in the history of the world. I don't think anyone is judging Russia for the naval battles of this war.
mrttao
Well-known member
> Russia, when facing literally the entire world, lost its navy in the war.
They are going to live it down just fine.
Care to elaborate how is this backing reflected in naval power?
Did USA happen to gift Ukraine a few DDGs and SSNs when no one was looking?
This, the missile has spent about 40 seconds in our airspace.
The stuff about the black fleet being sunk is mostly optics. Russia is not America, and does not project power through it's fleets, but instead its geography, size, and formerly mercenaries. Its fleet is mostly irrelevant outside of its nuclear submarines, which aren't based in the Black Fleet.
Note that mostly is not completely though. Since Ukraine is literally right next to Russia, there is some real affects from the fleet, but not huge ones. First, as there's naval dominance, there's always a threat of a naval invasion. Not a real one, but that it exists does demand that Ukraine have some response for it, which is always an issue. It's also an artillery platform of a sort, but there's plenty enough on land for that.
Finally, optics do actually matter. There's not going to be a winner in this war, much like WW2. If Russia takes Kyiv tomorrow, it will still have lost. But there will be a bigger loser.
Note that mostly is not completely though. Since Ukraine is literally right next to Russia, there is some real affects from the fleet, but not huge ones. First, as there's naval dominance, there's always a threat of a naval invasion. Not a real one, but that it exists does demand that Ukraine have some response for it, which is always an issue. It's also an artillery platform of a sort, but there's plenty enough on land for that.
Finally, optics do actually matter. There's not going to be a winner in this war, much like WW2. If Russia takes Kyiv tomorrow, it will still have lost. But there will be a bigger loser.
I knew you Americans had hypersonic maneuverable missiles. The fact that this is public means there's probably third or fourth generation prototypes being researched already, with second gen in secret testing. If it's anything like electronics and computer development by the time it leaves the factory its already two iterations out of date. This is why I never took the Kinjal and it CCP knockoff seriously. It's a modification of a Soviet system from 1980. I'm nowhere near the range of the silos. There's an American military base in Deveslu between me and the Russian launchers with Air Defence batteries. And a Romanian army base just outside the city with its own Patriot systems. I'm pretty sure the government has secret batteries protecting the capital at the very least.
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